RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive?

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive?
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RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/15/2008 1:56:54 PM

Panther F

Posts: 2093
Joined: 12/31/2005
From: Franklin, IN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erikreid

I leave you all with one final question, Why should the tamiya NOT be so expensive?

The same reason I cannot buy a Chevrolet Corvette at a Chevrolet Malibu price.

_____________________________

HL StuG III, Tamiya: M4 Sherman, M4A1E8 Sherman, Sturmtiger, T-34/85 and an M26A1 Pershing

(in reply to erikreid)

Post #: 201

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/15/2008 2:06:02 PM

erikreid

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: Fort Belvoir, VA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panther F

quote:

ORIGINAL: erikreid

I leave you all with one final question, Why should the tamiya NOT be so expensive?

The same reason I cannot buy a Chevrolet Corvette at a Chevrolet Malibu price.

LMAO. nice one

_____________________________

current projects: Jadgpanther, possible U-Boat (still deciding)

(in reply to Panther F)

Post #: 202

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/15/2008 3:01:30 PM

wackywheelz

Posts: 2160
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Launceston, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

quote:

I leave you all with one final question, Why should the tamiya NOT be so expensive?

Because they're mass-produced in a factory in Phillipines? Because it costs them a hell of a lot less to manufacture than you all pretend...?

_____________________________

Tamiya Sherman | Matorro KT | Bandai Hummel | HL Tiger (x3), Pershing, PzIII, Bulldog | T34/76 | 1/12 M1A2 | T34/85 (x2)

(in reply to erikreid)

Post #: 203

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/15/2008 3:35:52 PM

pzrwest

Posts: 1064
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Cardiff, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

We can debate this for ever and still not come up with a reason why Tamiya tanks are so expensive. You have to remember that Tamiya makes the tanks then sells them to wholesalers who then add their profit and resell to dealers who then add on their profit. Everyone down the line get their cut and we the end buyers pay the end price. Remember also the price of oil effects the prices, and import duties and taxes which all get passed down to the cunsumer or end buyer. If you knew what the wholesalers paid for the tanks you would be surprized at just how much each one down the line makes on each tank. Reguardless Tamiya model kits etc. have always been more expensive than other model manufacturers.
But why we have to keep bringing this up is beyond me it just goes round and round.... let's get back to just building, modifying, and running our tanks and just enjoy RC Tanks

(in reply to wackywheelz)

Post #: 204

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 8:25:01 PM

Shagnifico

Posts: 315
Joined: 12/9/2005
From: san antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyaslead

I read a personal interview with Mr. Tamiya in the IPMS magazine last year and the question was asked what model he would most like to see released.

Mr. Tamiya's response was interesting, to paraphrase, he wished to produce a B-52 bomber (as I recall) but the royalty negotiations with Boeing were too involved (costly) to subtaintiate at this time.

If Mr. Tamiya's desire is in question, let it not be, economics limit even CEO's.

That's another big factor that people don't realize. The idea of intellectual property rights is an alien concept to communist countries. Hen long's modus oporundi is to copy Tamiya and VS tanks and reproduce them with cheaper material and lead paint in a mass production toy factory staffed by eploited labor in unsafe working conditions.

How much do you think you would have to pay a museum to let you drive one of their WWII era tanks around? VS and Tamiya pay for the research, delopement and engineering. Hen long capitalizes on tamiya's labor, and they pay tamiya nothing for it. In most civilized countries this is not legal.

If one was to modify a HL pershing to be of the same quality as a Tamiya pershing it would cost him more than the price of a new tamiya pershing. The suspension and gears and treads would have to be replaced, most parts would need to be resized. You would need electronics for sound and lighting and proportional speed, gun recoil acutation.

BTW for those complaining about the cost of Tamiya. A high end 1/16 RC tank will cost 5 to 10 times what a tamiya costs.

Yes it is lamentable that a good RC tank is so expensive. There's no way Tamiya could sell their tanks for $200. We should be thankfull that Tamiya still makes their 1/16 tanks, because it's really a tiny fraction of their income. They could decide to stop making their 1/16 rc tanks and they would be absolutely fine businesswise. And without tamiya there would only be $60 1/16 hen long rc tanks, and $4000 1/16 rc tanks from europe.

_____________________________

Fahren wie das Wasser fliesst

(in reply to heavyaslead)

Post #: 205

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 8:39:05 PM

tim001ca

Posts: 63
Joined: 10/24/2006
From: london, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

This is a little off topic but.. I'v worked in automotive for at least 7 years and the things i'v learned about cars and how they are priced is...................... OMG...............

EG. The factory that I worked in made parts for Hummer (A trans. coolant line) It cost us (The comp.) about 5 to 6 bucks to make.. now we sell it to Hummer for around $100 per part! and Hummer will sell it to a buyer as a replacment part for around 300-500 bucks! so lets see here about 5000% mark up. So lets face it.. No matter what you buy there is a mark up.. If you were to buy a brand new Audi at cost it would only cost you about $5000 to $10000 instead of $50000..

So now that I think about it Tams are not that bad... there is allot that will go into one of these little tanks.. small gears, molds, electric crap. etc... etc... But still I can get a M-4 for about $320? thats damn good price, and I think that we all know that Tams are built better than a HL.............................. ohh ya and by the way I only own a HL, no Tam........... YET.

Thats just my 2 cents

(in reply to Shagnifico)

Post #: 206

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 9:56:57 PM

mizuinu

Posts: 78
Joined: 1/5/2008
From: Santa Maria, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wackywheelz

quote:

I leave you all with one final question, Why should the tamiya NOT be so expensive?

Because they're mass-produced in a factory in Phillipines? Because it costs them a hell of a lot less to manufacture than you all pretend...?

i thought they're made in china?

the joke that we tell why many goods are made in china is that if the workers complain about salary, they "disappear".

_____________________________

looking at destroyed tank hulls is like looking at wrecked exotic cars..

(in reply to wackywheelz)

Post #: 207

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 10:33:08 PM

wackywheelz

Posts: 2160
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Launceston, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

quote:

If one was to modify a HL pershing to be of the same quality as a Tamiya pershing it would cost him more than the price of a new tamiya pershing. The suspension and gears and treads would have to be replaced, most parts would need to be resized. You would need electronics for sound and lighting and proportional speed, gun recoil acutation.

I dunno about you, but for the $600+ it'd cost me for a Tamiya Pershing, I could do a hell of a lot to my HL Pershing, not that you need to as it doesn't require much to be a decent tank. It's sturdier built (plastics) than the Tamiya, doesn't require bracing/anti-flex stuff, metal gearbox, metal tracks, it has sounds, it has lights, it has proportional speed... recoil is gimicky to me, to get it "realistic" recoil it'd be too-fast to see so I don't bother.

_____________________________

Tamiya Sherman | Matorro KT | Bandai Hummel | HL Tiger (x3), Pershing, PzIII, Bulldog | T34/76 | 1/12 M1A2 | T34/85 (x2)

(in reply to mizuinu)

Post #: 208

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 10:59:48 PM

BIGMIG

Posts: 1598
Joined: 2/28/2007
From: nowhere, WA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mizuinu

quote:

ORIGINAL: wackywheelz

quote:

I leave you all with one final question, Why should the tamiya NOT be so expensive?

Because they're mass-produced in a factory in Phillipines? Because it costs them a hell of a lot less to manufacture than you all pretend...?

i thought they're made in china?

the joke that we tell why many goods are made in china is that if the workers complain about salary, they "disappear".

I thought Tamiya was made in Japan. ?????

I don't know for sure but my guess would be, a bigger dealer in HL tanks would pay somewhere around $30.00 to $ 35.00 dollars from the mfg---???And according to how many they order at one time it could even be less.One thing I have noticed here on the forum is not many people run the Tamiya as it comes in a basic kit.They buy a lot of the up-grade accessorys before they ever complete the kit and run the tank.I know it's great to be able to buy RC TANKS from $10.00 dollars and up---------I seem to always be supprised at how many features you get for so little money.The little 1/24 scale cheap model tank I posted in the war room that cost $15.00 dollars--forward,reverse,turning ability,turret rotation,(same turret motor as the 1/16 scale models,"order just this motor from mato and see what it costs to get it"

full IR circuts,and to top that off "sound".

All this for $15.00 dollars,and the dealer is making a few dollars off this-------------------------And a lot will say they are just junk tanks===Well hello===How would one expect
to compare it to a tank that costs 40 times or more in price.But one thing I can say about these little guys,they are fun to play around
with. Buy what you like and have fun with what you buy,and thats all there is to it. BIGMIG

If you are going to buy a Tamiya kit the price may be of importance to you.To me I have no desire to buy or own one so it really don't mater what they cost to me.The more they cost the less you will see of them,it's a buyer's market out there.

P.S. I thought this thread had allready died it's normal death and was gone and here it is again---oh-well

< Message edited by BIGMIG -- 2/18/2008 12:34:46 AM >

(in reply to mizuinu)

Post #: 209

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 11:02:28 PM

YHR

Posts: 1757
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shagnifico

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyaslead

I read a personal interview with Mr. Tamiya in the IPMS magazine last year and the question was asked what model he would most like to see released.

Mr. Tamiya's response was interesting, to paraphrase, he wished to produce a B-52 bomber (as I recall) but the royalty negotiations with Boeing were too involved (costly) to subtaintiate at this time.

If Mr. Tamiya's desire is in question, let it not be, economics limit even CEO's.

That's another big factor that people don't realize. The idea of intellectual property rights is an alien concept to communist countries. Hen long's modus oporundi is to copy Tamiya and VS tanks and reproduce them with cheaper material and lead paint in a mass production toy factory staffed by eploited labor in unsafe working conditions.

How much do you think you would have to pay a museum to let you drive one of their WWII era tanks around? VS and Tamiya pay for the research, delopement and engineering. Hen long capitalizes on tamiya's labor, and they pay tamiya nothing for it. In most civilized countries this is not legal.

If one was to modify a HL pershing to be of the same quality as a Tamiya pershing it would cost him more than the price of a new tamiya pershing. The suspension and gears and treads would have to be replaced, most parts would need to be resized. You would need electronics for sound and lighting and proportional speed, gun recoil acutation.

BTW for those complaining about the cost of Tamiya. A high end 1/16 RC tank will cost 5 to 10 times what a tamiya costs.

Yes it is lamentable that a good RC tank is so expensive. There's no way Tamiya could sell their tanks for $200. We should be thankfull that Tamiya still makes their 1/16 tanks, because it's really a tiny fraction of their income. They could decide to stop making their 1/16 rc tanks and they would be absolutely fine businesswise. And without tamiya there would only be $60 1/16 hen long rc tanks, and $4000 1/16 rc tanks from europe.

I think you need to do more research. Everything you claim is easily debatable, but frankly I can't be bothered. Lead paint and sweat shop labour?!!!!. Please, have you seen the photo's from the Heng Long factory!!!!!

I guess the Heng Longs are getting so good at copying they are actually getting their copies to market before Tamiya releases them. PZ III and now the IV come to mind

< Message edited by YHR -- 2/17/2008 11:03:05 PM >

(in reply to Shagnifico)

Post #: 210

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 11:10:37 PM

pcomm1

Posts: 857
Joined: 3/27/2007
From: Orange County, CA, USA
Status: offline

Well written Shag.

Tamiya rc tank kits are labeled Made in Japan. In the Tamiya Jadgpanther kit for instance, some electronic components like Futaba (USA Company (Of Course!)) are labeled Made in China, elsewhere the kit is marked Made in Japan.

The cost of manufacturing is only one aspect of the process. Research, engineering/design, administration/management, marketing, advertising, distribution and fulfillment all add to the cost of delivering a product to the consumer. Nothing new there.

And it is interesting no one has mentioned how much money HL saved by knocking off Tamiya's Pershing and Tiger I models and bypassing the expense of those setup/tooling/mold costs.

Knock off a USA companies products and the products are seized by US Customs at the USA port of entry. Or seized by various US law enforcement agencies, if and when they are discovered in the USA market place.

_____________________________

Tamiya 1/16 Jagdpanther, Panther G, Pz4 J, Tiger IE, Sherman & DAK Kubelwagen and 2 parallel world HLs

(in reply to mizuinu)

Post #: 211

RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? - 2/17/2008 11:35:44 PM

wackywheelz

Posts: 2160
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Launceston, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

IF Heng Long truly ripped off Tamiya molds for the Tiger and the Pershing, I can't see what anyones deal is about "enhanced detail" on the Tamiya... the earliest molds, the initial Tigers from HL, are most-different from the Tamiya mold... explain that one?

It would be interesting to find what percentage of kits are from Japan, and how many from Phillipines. Tamiya does most of its manufacturing in the Phillipines, because its cheap. Read the fine print, a lot of stuff says "Made in Japan (assembled from imported components)". Most of the static kits have been build in the Phillipines for ages, its like 60/40 or 70/30 these days. Japan is over the whole "intensive labor" thing, just like Taiwan - they outsource these days because theres plenty of countries offering cheap labor force (not only China), to maximise output & profit margins.

_____________________________

Tamiya Sherman | Matorro KT | Bandai Hummel | HL Tiger (x3), Pershing, PzIII, Bulldog | T34/76 | 1/12 M1A2 | T34/85 (x2)

(in reply to pcomm1)