Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (Full Version)

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moo10123 -> Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 6:06:24 AM)

dont really know why the Tamiya tanks are so much more than the HL ones, they both seem the exact same.



Harquebus -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 6:11:12 AM)

One word. Quality.

But it's not that easy as this very subject has been discussed before. Reasons:

1. Development cost (Tamiya's use of excruciating detail even down to recording of actual engine sounds)
2. RC tanking is a very fringe activity - Tamiya, comparatively, sells very few RC tanks versus other vehicles
3. ...



t72 -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 6:51:07 AM)

The question should be " Why are HL tanks so cheap ? "

It has something to do with economics & cost of production.

1. Wages & salaries of a worker in Japan is about 8-10 times of a worker in China. A factory worker in China earns about USD $200 per month.
2. In Japan, the factories use top quality machineries & material.
3. The packaging of a Tamiya tank is much better than a HL tank with a more elaborate instruction.
4. Cost of operating a factory in Japan is much higher than in China such as rent, cost of transportation, tax & so on.

These are the also main reasons why so many well known companies want to move their prouction line to China.



borealis -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 7:12:27 AM)

I think it is also a commercial choice from Tamiya: util now, they did not want to invest in a mass production of their RC tanks, nor they thought that rc tanks could be a mass entertainment such as are RC cars, for example.
The arrival of china-made cheap rc tanks is going to change the market, tho, and maybe Tamiya too will soon judge that the market of potential buyers has grown, and they will decide to cut their prices by half.
Should a Tam kit cost just twice as a HL, what would we buy?



ksoc -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 7:45:07 AM)

quote:

dont really know why the Tamiya tanks are so much more than the HL ones, they both seem the exact same.


Be careful. Words like those on this forum could start a war[8|]

If Tamiya was to cut there price AND bundle with a radio, batteries, and the TBU, I think they could sell a lot more tanks.

The reason the original HL's (Tiger and Pershing) look like Tamiyas is they copied the exterior, right down to the Tank Commander figures. HL took some short cuts for mass production/toy tanks. The tools are molded on the exterior, not separate pieces as they are on the Tamiyas.

Interior wise, the are not even similar. Tamiyas are built like an RC model with interior access designed in. The suspension uses much more metal, and has an aluminum tub for reinforcement.

I could go on for while. I am assuming you have a HL, so I'll enclose a few Tamiya picts for comparison. One could rightly argue whether a Tamiya is worth the extra money, but no one can claim they are basically the same

Kevin O
<S.C.A.T>

...........Tamiya.............Close up of the...........Interior shot......................Torsion Bar
Gen II & I Gear Box........Electronics.................2 screw to remove top........Suspension



Wight -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 7:46:38 AM)

I thought the same a while ago,before I had a Tamiya.
Now I have one I can see why.
You can actually feel the difference,I know it sounds silly but it's true.It is the quality of it.
How much do you think it would cost to make a HL work and survive as well as a Tamiya?



moo10123 -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 7:58:00 AM)

Im sure there better quality but are they $300-400 better quality? they should be around $150-200 from what I can see of them especially if it doesnt even include a radio, just my opinion though. And I dont have a HL yet. A bulldog is on the way!!



Leopard A4UK -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 9:48:00 AM)

Hi all,

I have to agree with you about quality. Tamiya make top quality, highly detailed scale kits that have a multitude of functions that work first time. The cost of designing, tooling and packaging the tamiya kits is a lot higher than the mass produced, ready made, sometimes work out of the box Hen Long.

That said I have no problem with the henlong concept as it produces acceptable tanks at a cost that most of us can afford. With some basic tweaking they work fine and the kids can hurt them and they are repairable. With detailing they look superb.

Tamiya tanks are as previously mentioned a completely different item. I have several tanks and the Tamiya ones stand out not only in quality but also survivability on the field. Yes small bits fall off but the tamiya tanks just run and run.

If you are on a budget then you can buy 10 of the Henlong tanks in the UK for the price of a Tamiya Leopard 2. [:(]

As a model maker I much prefer to build rather than buy a ready made toy and I have made 1/35th tamiya tanks for years, their great. Building the dragonwagon at the moment. I wonder if I can build one in 1/16th.

One day I will be able to afford a 1/16th Leopard 2 and I cant wait. In the meantime I have to buy someone elses off ebay for a lot less money. Almost forgot I bought a 1/16th Tamiya KT Kit off ebay and it should arrive today. Hooray.

See you

Mike



gyrate -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 11:15:47 AM)

Tamiya doesn't make "top" quality.. just acceptable. Bent drivetrain parts, broken wheels, parts coming off, plastic like mad.. you pay for the name and the electronics. the actual models (no electronics) are 1/4 the price or less. you also pay to build it.. all those little parts cost to make while HL uses molds.

tamiya does make a mass produced product actually.. limited models cost in the thousands (the czech models come to mind) and don't use plastic.



Leopard A4UK -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 12:18:34 PM)

As usual these things are all down to someones own opinion, including mine which isnt necesarily right but it is my opinion. It is as usual down to personal choice and I like tamiya products. It is unfortunate that in the UK we have to pay so much more than in some other countries but heyho that was what ebay was invented for wasnt it?



The_Stuff -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 12:24:58 PM)

i once thought the same thing, till i saw what made a tamiya pershing. just the amount of detail and extras was amazing. if you get a chance to compare a hl and a tamiya IRL side by side, you will see.



Panther F -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:06:39 PM)

Without getting into too much comparison, it's like choosing one TV set over another.

They both look the same and do the same thing and the quality you really cannot see the difference until you use it.


Jeff



martin g -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:33:35 PM)

Just wanted to second the comment that I agree hugely with the Tamiya quality over the HL and econimic differences at production, BUT, for me it isnt a £550.00 difference ( $1100 US including radio gear). That is more than my laptop cost me!!



YHR -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:38:53 PM)

Tamiya's are better qualtiy, Tamiya's are overpriced for that quality. Simply that is why Heng Longs are selling like hot cakes. They are detailed enough, strong enough, adaptable enough to thrive in a market that doesn't want to spend $800 for a tank. It will be because of Heng Long and the cottage industry third parties that will expand the Tank Market to the main stream. Everyone is interested in a $100 tank. A $800 dollar one gets looked at and the person walks away wishing they has that kind of money to throw around.



Panther F -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:40:30 PM)

Wow, prices must be really high over there. I paid $550.00 for the Pershing and another $118.00 for the radio.


Jeff



Panther F -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:43:08 PM)

That's why I made the TV comparison. I'd love to have a flat panel HD TV ... but they are way over priced!!

I'll stick with my conventional 36 inch stereo TV and save the money to buy the Tamiya tanks.


Jeff



pattoncommander -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:49:02 PM)

Mike, have to agree that Tamiya produces extremely good models. Next in line for quality is Dragon. The majority of the 42 tanks I assembled for my museum are Tamiya, and the M-26 Draggon Wagon has to be the best 1;35 kit on the market, with absolutely fantastic detailing. It's now available with the M-15 trailer and later this year I want to build one with a damaged M-47 or m-48 on board. A 1;16 model would be SOOOO huge! I don't have the money to invest in super costly Tamiya RC models and my museum has veto'd my request, but the HL tanks can be worked so they look superb and S&S update kits make them run so much bettet than the cheap HL electronics. It's really a shame that the Century 21 models are so crappy on electronics. They look so good on detailing, you can do a lot with them. I just redid 2 of my "snubnose" Pz IVs to provide an early model with no stowage bin and antenna on the side and a later one with relocated antenna mount and no antenna guard. The have a lot of other really nice stuff, but in a hairbrained 1;32 scale.
Bill



heavyaslead -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 1:59:00 PM)

The old saying 'You get what you pay for' applies here.

The main reason Tamiya is more expensive is it is first and formost a MODEL to be assembled with 1000's of parts. Tamiya painstakingly replicates detail most RTR manufacturers ignore. The target consumer of the product is different than RTR vehicles.

Just check out typical prices models fetch on Ebay compared to RTR models and you'll see the inherent value.

Besides, once all the 'upgrades' are added it approaches the cost of a Tamiya.



ArmChairGeneral -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 3:06:51 PM)

My opinion is the Tam's have the quality while the HL's and WSN have best bang for the buck.



digger1976 -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 3:34:49 PM)

The difference in HL Chinese workers and Tamiya Japanese workers. Price products accordingly...



outcastrc -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 3:49:48 PM)

Way over priced! Most people can't or won't argue that a Tamiya is 10X better quality then a HL. But they are 10X the price. (Just gisting here) Myself I don't think a tamiya tank is twice as good as a HL. Might be close but sure not more then that. Tamiya has always been over priced in the RC market until being forced to bring their prices down. The tanks just haven't caught up with the rest of the competitive market. But with the huge sales of cheaper tanks it might just happen yet.

For some reason Tamiya seems fine with selling 10 models at X price. When the competition can make money selling 1000 at more competitive prices. This problem is inherent in all Tamiya sales. From cars, to rigs, to their tanks.



shadopilot -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 4:35:51 PM)

Tamiya did the research and HL did reverse engineering. One of my best friends is the son of the founder of the big French tank museum in Saumur, France. He told me Tamiya would send a team there and measure very bit and piece of a tank to make scale molds from. http://www.musee-des-blindes.asso.fr/



martin g -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 4:52:21 PM)

Im yet to read a argument here that supports the Tamiya price tag, and I am as open minded as the rest. I dont think its an argument between HL and Tam anyway, these are two diffeent products. So the Tam comparisons are basically pointless. Just take the Tamiya tank, in that box, are you getting £500 worth of product? for me no, as I mentioned before I can buy a laptop for that, or even a ready to run 50cc mini motorcycle. A plastic model kit with RC guts and some metal parts, mass produced? cmon.

The RnD etc will be buillt into the overheads of the company and that will be spread accross thier WHOLE product range, so any research on a tanks is not actually attributed directly to the tank sales.

They [Tamiya] thought it is a niche market and priced accordingly, what they didnt predict is that THEY made that market niche by pricing every day Joe out of that market. A product snobism if you like. Now that greedyness is coming back to bite becasue another firm has made an affordable RC tank available and all these users (thats us) which are coming out f the woodwork.. Tamiya must be thinking...****! wadda we do?
They either drop the price and therefore de-value thier product, which shows them up for ripping peeps off in the past, or use a clever marketing technique which tells you all they have cut thier costs and can now lower the price to claim some revenue back.



kurtmeyer -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 5:59:52 PM)

TAMIYA'S TANKS ARE WORTH EVERY PENNY.....



PoisonPorkChop -> RE: Why are Tamiya tank so expensive? (4/4/2007 6:05:51 PM)

One question..Do you or any other Henlong owner ,have seen, or own a Tamiya Tank,???If not how can any of you even comment on this subject???? I have Both Tamiya and Henlong....Tamiya Tanks are RC Tank Models,lower hull is all metal,metal sprockets bushings,suspenion arms all metal ,Real gearboxes w/ metal gears (not stamped)..controls and functions are also night and day ....For instance..move the sick on transmitter a little to move the turret and it moves slowly move it more and it moves faster...Total control.......Real sound recorded from actual surviving tanks.....Hen longs are TOY tanks all plastic ,lite...generic sound....inferior electronics...but fun as toys.....these are my thoughts as I do own both.
also I think maybe it might be a good idea to have a Tamiya section to this forum as it seem that this board seems to be about 98% Hen long topics.......what does everyone else think...vote?[:D]



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