Ether mixing and Methanol Information (Full Version)

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raresolid -> Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/4/2007 7:11:07 PM)

Hello everyone,

I have been reading about mixing your own fuels, and am really interested in doing this myself. I have made diesel fuel before so I know the proper procedures for working with chemicals.

I was wondering if you can mix Ether into the Methanol mix to substitute the nitro. I don't know if this would work or not. If any one has any information would appreciate the help. I am in Canada, trying to locate a place that sells Methanol. If any one knows, please let me know. Thanks so much.

raresolid



balsaeater -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/4/2007 8:12:55 PM)

I trawled through lots of post in this forum and others

It seems a lot of strange mixxes will work but are rarely done

But if your trying to avoid using nitro the 80% methonal and 20% castor works for most motors in glow

in deisel there are a host of formula from three four to ten mixxes

best to say for what work and what motor or motors C/L RC boats planes as they all have there own quirks
seems ether in 5% can go with methonal but not much more for glow use and can help make motro more stable in performance if you dont have nitro
however 5% acetone is soposed to be better
also nitrobenzine can replace nitro but its difficult to get in USA as it banned there I think as it is bit more toxic than nitro

balsaeater



raresolid -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/4/2007 8:34:36 PM)

Sounds good,

I can get Ether in 311g cans, which is about 400ml for about $5.00CDN, its cheap stuff.... I will search around for Acetone, and see what I can find.

What does the Acetone actually do? Is it more flammable then Methanol?

Thanks for your help.

raresolid



Fuel Dinosaur -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/4/2007 10:21:21 PM)

Hey guys, you are getting some incorrect information here. Methanal is an aldehyde and is NOT methanol (CH3OH, methyl alcohol). Second, be VERY careful about using ether, especially diethyl ether. It forms peroxides over time and is not the nicest chemical to handle. This particular ether boils BELOW body temperature of 37 degrees C (98.6 F). There are few if any practical substitutes for nitromethane,but remember a lot of engines will run on 20% castor oil (Bakers AA from SIG, Benol from klotzlube.com) and 80% methanol. Use of a few percent acetone is okay if you have to, but please be careful when mixing things together. There are older articles on the AMA and other sites about basic homemade fuels. Please take this advice in the spirit in which it is given, from a youngster who was given a chemistry set that had all three basic ingredients for making gunpowder in the SAME chemical kit. [:-]



downunder -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/5/2007 5:51:51 AM)

The ST instruction manual says you can use a small amount of either acetone or ether in low or zero nitro fuels. I've occasionally used some acetone (about 3%) in my zero nitro fuels but so far only in my CL engines where it didn't make any difference because obviously they don't have to idle and they always start with one or two flicks anyway. Ether in small amounts is sometimes recommended in very cold weather as an aid to starting but I wouldn't bother with it otherwise because it evaporates very quickly out of the fuel.

One of the things acetone is supposed to do is reduce the rate that methanol will absorb moisture out of the air which is probably why one brand of methanol sold here in Australia has 3% acetone added to it.



balsaeater -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/5/2007 11:24:21 AM)

methanol sorry speling mistake

realy i would alway prefer to follow the tried and tested buy many european clubs the 80% methanol 20 castor route as nitro is mad money and difficult to obtain in europe and zero nitro fuels nearly always work for most engines

acetone is clear liquid stong odour cold to touch with rapid evaporation mostly used to thin out epoxy bruses to clean them or similar as a solvent mosly used in boat yards or where they use polester glass fibre or in hardware stores or special paint stores
not generaly cheap
evaporates rapidly


balsaeater




raresolid -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/5/2007 4:42:02 PM)

Hello again,

Thank you for the information. I think adding the 3% acetone would be a good thing to prevent a build up of moisture in the fuel. If the Acetone repels most moisture, then it would be a good thing. The other thing would be Ether for those cold starts in Canada.

I was thinking of a Mixture that contained Methanol, Ether, Acetone, Oil

Methanol - Base Fuel
Ether - Nitro Replacement. Quick starts
Acetone - Moisture Repellent
Oil - Lubricant

The Mixture would be like this: Methanol 70%, Ether 5%, Acetone 5%, Oil 20%

Methanol 70% - 700ml
Ether 5% - 50ml
Acetone 5% - 50ml
Oil 20% - 200ml
Total: 1000ml or 1Liter batch
Or am I just complicating this more then what it really needs to be? Let me know what you guys think. I run OS .46 AX Motor, and I have a OS .40LA Motor.



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/5/2007 8:25:57 PM)

Acetone is not going to do much to improve moisture adsorption. However, it will help prevent detonation in high compression engines, or to allow higher percentages of nitro in higher compression engines. I don't know why acetone is used in Ausssi alky and nitro. Not added in those products in the USA as far as I know.

Here is a site which mentions acetone as an additive as well as others.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel13.html



jetpack -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/6/2007 3:12:05 AM)

I always heard that Ether will change the chemical link compounds of oil, where the oil will break down and lose its lubricity properties. It doesn't act as oil anymore.



Motorboy -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/6/2007 6:21:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jetpack

I always heard that Ether will change the chemical link compounds of oil, where the oil will break down and lose its lubricity properties. It doesn't act as oil anymore.


jetpack..
Nonsense... the ether has been used in fuel for model dieselengines in a lot of years without problem with oil lubricity properties and fuel has been stored in a lot of years without the oil has been broken down.

Ether will selfignite in 188 degree celsius and are an ideal ignitor for model dieselengine. But why use ether in glowplug engine with glowplug and are using methanol with selfignition at 475 degree celsius???

Jens Eirik



raresolid -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/6/2007 5:58:42 PM)

Hello, well the reason was to help give it more power. I heard on this forum that the running with a methanol mix, and oil mix is just fine but does not give the motor really high rpm's, I don't know if this is true or not. I was thinking that because Ether was more flammable, and easer to ignite, that it would help the Methanol to burn faster thus giving it more performance then just Methanol/oil alone.



Motorboy -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/6/2007 10:51:07 PM)

The ether has not effect at glowplug engine to improve power.

Jens Eirik



raresolid -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/7/2007 5:54:37 AM)

Sounds good,

I am going to order some Klotz oil tomorrow. The Mixture will be the following.

80% Methanol
15% Klotz from Sig/Klotz
5% Castor Pure AA from Sig.

Lots of benefits from Klotz Synthetic, and the reliability of Castor oil should make this mix work fine.

Will let you know how the results turn out.


raresolid



downunder -> RE: Ether mixing and Methanol Information (4/7/2007 6:29:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: raresolid
I heard on this forum that the running with a methanol mix, and oil mix is just fine but does not give the motor really high rpm's,

You read a lot of things on these forums :). I've been running a few engines lately on the test stand with zero nitro and 25% all castor fuel (it's actually my running in fuel) and the 40 sizes have all been turning around 14K with a 10x6 APC while the 45ish run around 14.3K on the same prop. Sure, you'll get a few hundred more revs with nitro but if you're not into competitions it's not worth the bother and expense....IMO of course :D.



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