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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 5/22/2007 3:28 AM   
AEROSHELDON



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Status: offline 		I have a Jeep Liberty and it is pretty short!

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 5/23/2007 7:13 PM   
P-51B



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ORIGINAL: AEROSHELDON

I have a Jeep Liberty and it is pretty short!



It has luggage racks on the roof right???

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 5/23/2007 8:04 PM   
Hawk21


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bodywerks


By the way, there is more video of this plane on another forum, but I cant mention it here, or I will get in giant trouble...not sure if that's the DA one or the 116 one, but it flew well and had TONS of pull out authority!


It was with the DA 100 and MTW 75 cannisters and that thing had a lot of power

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 5/30/2007 2:12 AM   
Airbike


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

I am anticipating this plane and I have a quick question for you.

I have a DA100 and the std mufflers, would you recommend the MTW 75 cannisters over the mufflers if I do not have a noise issue with the std mufflers? ie; does the cannister actually work like a "tuned" exhaust or does it just make the engine more quiet with no real power increase?

I'm at sea level in Los Angeles area.

Bodywerks (Nick?): sorry I didn't get to meet you at the Cirkus Vegas flyin, but I read that you may get this plane also. If so, could you please post any lightening mods that you think may be worth while? Yeah, your reputation is preceeding you in making things fly lighter.

Dan

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 5/31/2007 1:11 AM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		What's up? I heard that you were there but no one ever put a face to the name for me. I'm bad with names but never forget a face!
If mike is getting this to 28 pounds with cannisters, the aluminum spinner, and three 4800mah li-ions, you could easily get this thing to 27 pounds with stock mufflers and lighter batteries. At sealevel, dude, the DA will YANK this thing with stock mufflers. In my experience with cannisters, they don't add any noticeable amount of power, maybe 100-150 RPM.
I am pretty sure that, structurally speaking, this plane will be plenty light, so my weight savings will be in the for m of equipment choices. I will be going with three 1320 lipos with fromecos for regulation (the ones with the micro pin switch), a single rudder servo, CF spinner, CF wingtube, CF tailwheel, possibly no pilot, and possibly lighter and/or smaller wheels. Combined with stock mufflers, that would drop a good 1-1.5 pounds. I am still torn on whether or not to run Greeves full-length pipes, though. I am not too worried about weight anymore, being in Tucson, and I know I will have plenty o power at 27 pounds on stock muffs, but the sound and power of the Greeves, and only 28ish pounds, maybe less, has me thinking ROCKET along with a fairly light wingloading...

< Message edited by bodywerks -- 5/31/2007 1:22 AM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/10/2007 11:51 PM   
bpcfod


 

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Status: offline 		this plane will perform at any of the wieghts!!!!! the motors these day's rip!you arent ganna have to worry about getting it down to 27lbs!I feel your taking a big risk by lighting and going with smaller batteries.Ya have one servo go bad and bam amps=disssssaster! And also may create a wing rock on harries!!!! too light isnt always the best thing guys!!!Any 100 to 120 motor will yank out of a hover at even 29 to 30 pounds. This next topic is just some thaughts nothing personal!just get tiered of guys bull....ting us around with there stories!!
Im not sure where some of this information is coming from!There is some conflicting stories going on here about other forums?A stories one way here and another there!I dont see any wieghts about Mikes M plane and his all up wieght!I dont see or find any carbon tuned pipes!for 100cc planes!please give some links or some real info not tell us "oh another forum and then on the other forum say the same thing oh another forum!
I think ya know who you are my two cents!!!!!!
I cant wiat to get this plane....i feel its ganna be the best avail. for us 100cc guys.....i love my Yak but shes worn out and this 260 is the nicest plane avail.Thanks Mike M.For producing such a nice plane for the 33 to 35 % guys...............Thanks Shane


< Message edited by bpcfod -- 6/10/2007 11:52 PM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 1:39 AM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		Sorry to disagree 100%, but I am absolutely not concerned at all about power-to-weight, but wing loading. Yes, there is such a thing as too light, but 27-27.5 pounds is DEFINITELY not for this plane - heck, not even 26 pounds. My 35% Aeroworks 260 weighed 25.5 pounds with only one less inch of wingspan and 150 less squares. Sure, that plane flies great at 27-28 pounds, too, but better at 25.5, IMO. Also, I have never, ever heard of a heavier plane flying high alpha better and having less wing rock than a light plane - in fact, just the opposite. My lighter planes slow down better, recover from stalls quicker, are more responsive in high-alpha, hovering, and TRing, and most definitely more stable in post-stall situations.
Man, I have been into this debate so very many times before! I don't know what to tell you, but I can tell the difference between a couple pounds on a plane this size. I am sorry if you can't. And, in EVERY scenario, except trying to fly in Gale-force winds, I have ALWAYS preferred the lighter plane. If you want to strap in some dual 3700 nimh's, smoke, and all that stuff and you like the way it flies, have a ball! But let me build mine light if I so choose. Trust me, "light weight" is not just a fad...
As for the lighter batteries, I don't see your point about them causing me to crash. They are rated at 15-20C, whereas typical Fromecos can only handle like 2-4C. If a servo took a dump and started to draw excessive amps (not that I have ever heard of this being an issue - at least not one worth worrying about), or whatever, the Fromecos voltage would degrade faster than my 1320 lipos, and the limiting factor would be the regulator, anyway, or the servo wire itself. Basically, your scenario was a bad "what if". Back in the mid-90's, guys were getting by fine on a single 1800mah nicad on 100" planes. Mine will have almost 50% more capacity than that and double or quadruple the leads with which to distribute that power - it'll be fine.
Oh, and here's the link to the company that makes carbon fiber pipes for 50-55cc cylinders:
http://www.escomposites.com/petrol.htm
And here's the post where Mike McConnville, himself, states the weight of his DA powered plane:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5723736
Now, please do some research of your own before you start accusing me of telling stories! The reason I say. "on another forum", is because most forums have a policy of not being able to link another forum's site on their own site, like www.**** notice the stars? Those weren't put there by me.

< Message edited by bodywerks -- 6/11/2007 5:46 AM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 7:29 AM   
bpcfod


 

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Status: offline 		dont get your feathers in a ruffle remember i said my two cents which isnt ganna effect you at all.your blood pressure must be through the roof!that key bourd was probably smokin when you replied to that!I hadnt seen these threads! thanks for giving me some good' ol proof baby.thats all just keepin it real and want badly to see and get this plane as bad as you!I have done a bit of reading but clearly not as much as you. Ive seen some guys run the smaller 1320 batteries and had some bad luck 2640mha isnt a whole bunch of back up!20c ya! 20c for 15 minutes ya get some binding linkage problems and a person will see 1320x 2go real fast! im a keep it light guy also thanks. smoke "why"to messy for show only! this did get me some more threads and info thought thanks for the links.and OK go ahead and biuld your the way you want!i wont mind!!! ps no harm intended! there is a bit of bull posted though......how may flights do you get and at what voltage are you seeing after?idle voltage not under load! if you dont mind shareing

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 12:21 PM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		On my Aeroworks 260, which has the same number of servo as this one will, I burn about 350 mah per 10 minute flight, total. And that was with a BME 110, which vibrates a little more than a DA. That same plane is now electric - way less vibration, and only burns 200 mah after an 8 minute flight. I am using the TP 1320's in it right now without problems. I typically only put 3 flights per day on my big stuff on a casual weekend day of flying. The 2640mah is more than enough. If I want to fly more, I can simply switch out batteries. The way I mount those batteries makes that easy to do. I always see over 7 volts, under a load. If I don't, I stop flying.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 4:01 PM   
rcaviator-RCU


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bodywerks

On my Aeroworks 260, which has the same number of servo as this one will, I burn about 350 mah per 10 minute flight, total. And that was with a BME 110, which vibrates a little more than a DA. That same plane is now electric - way less vibration, and only burns 200 mah after an 8 minute flight. I am using the TP 1320's in it right now without problems. I typically only put 3 flights per day on my big stuff on a casual weekend day of flying. The 2640mah is more than enough. If I want to fly more, I can simply switch out batteries. The way I mount those batteries makes that easy to do. I always see over 7 volts, under a load. If I don't, I stop flying.


If I understand your post correctly; you use about 35 mah per minute on both flight packs total, and about 25 mah per minute on the DA100 ignition?

At a stop flying voltage of over 7 volts, how much are you putting back in the battery packs when charging?

What brand and type of servo are you using on the AW Extra?

Thanks.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 7:47 PM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		It's been over a year since I had the BME 110 in the QB, but yes, you do understand my post regarding receiver packs. It pretty much goes inline with some data posted on another site (just kidding! www.troybuiltmodels.com ) about the average amp draw of a 100cc plane (in bold):
PLANE SIZE Avg Amp Draw Max Amp Draw Suggested Batteries Suggested Regulator
50cc 1 5 two - 2-cells 2- MPI 6v*
85cc 1.6 8 two - 2-cells 2- MPI 6v*
100cc 2 10 two - 2-cells 2- MPI 6v*
150cc 4 20 two - 4-cells Any 2 adjustable Regs**
Now, this is likely to be based on two rudder servos, a standard throttle servo, possibly a choke servo, and God only knows what else. My setup was a single rudder servo, mini throttle servo, no choke servo, no matchboxes, no nothing! Only little extra I had was a Smart-fly optical ignition kill, which probably only drew .02 amps. So, if you figure an average load of 2 amp/hours, that amounts to 33mah per minute. As for the 25mah for the DA ignition - I didn't post anything about ignition draw, but they only draw like 1 amp max. That also sounds about right, since every time I charged my batteries, I put just about the same amount of mah back into the ignition pack as I did one of the receiver packs.
Now, on my electric powered setup, I can verify that I put about 200-230mah back into each pack after two flights. In fact, I am about to charge the rx packs right now, after two flights totaling 7 minutes each. I will post exactly how many mah I put back into each pack later today.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 7:49 PM   
bpcfod


 

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Status: offline 		sounds about like mine.I burn about 400 to 480 mha per 10 min flight doing 3d and about the same as you when just playin around imac'n. i run hites 5955 all the way around! I am suprised on the diff. between your electric plane.The vibration is a big contributer to the drain! Thanks for the info. please post your build when you get the new bird!!!!!! take care.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 8:29 PM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		Here you go. This is what one of the batteries took after two 7 minute flights, plus a little taxiing and such before shutting it off...

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/11/2007 8:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		how about the other?

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/12/2007 10:35 AM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		321mah, but the last charge on it was with a Great planes polycharge and no balancer, so it may not have received a totally full charge.

< Message edited by bodywerks -- 6/12/2007 10:36 AM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/13/2007 6:45 AM   
tailskid



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Status: offline 		Mike, any ETA for the manual to arrive online?

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/13/2007 9:52 AM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		another interested party emailed ES composites about the performance of his pipes. Besides being very quiet and light, he also claims 7200RPM with a Mezjlik 27X10 prop!!! That is at least 600 more RPM than I have ever seen a stock-muffed DA turn that same prop! That oughta be fun!
I, too, am waiting on the manual. I am hoping there will be some pics in there that will help me to determine how to mount those pipes.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/14/2007 12:56 AM   
Hawk21


 

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Status: offline 		Mike, is there going to be a video of the 260 with the evolution 116
flying it?

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/16/2007 6:00 PM   
FBaity


 

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Status: offline 		Any news as to when this ARF is hitting the sreets?

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/16/2007 9:24 PM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		It still says late July. Horizon is usually pretty good about hitting the release date or coming within a month of it.

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/17/2007 11:25 PM   
tailskid



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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/18/2007 12:09 AM   
bodywerks



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Status: offline 		If, in the first week in July they don't change the ETA to mid august, then they are probably still expecting it to show up on time.
I am not in a huge hurry for this one, just because I don't have everything I need for it yet. It's also going to be a few hundred dollars more for me to obtain one, because O told my wife I'd buy her a new purse if she let me buy a new plane...

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/19/2007 9:41 PM   
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Status: offline 		Mike was using the 260 at the XFC nice airplane
it looks good on the videos

< Message edited by Hawk21 -- 6/19/2007 9:42 PM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/20/2007 5:12 AM   
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Status: offline 		Looking at the pictures on Horizon's site, it appears that the rudder servo is in a push-pull configuration at the rear of the fuse. Is this the way the production plane comes?

Thanks.

< Message edited by rcaviator-RCU -- 6/22/2007 1:49 AM >

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RE: 35% Extra 260 - 6/20/2007 6:13 PM   
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Status: offline 		Yes, the airplane I flew at the XFC is a totally stock production airplane. The rudder servos are tail mounted.

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