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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 3/27/2008 6:18 AM   
OnTheEdge



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Status: offline 		Anyone modify their Spot On 120 and put their elevator servos in the tail? I got a about 4 oz of lead on the tail so the weight should'nt be an issue. I can get rid of the lead, get rid of the heavy pushrods and move the battery back under the turtle deck. I was think two of these digital mini's:

http://www.servocity.com/html/s9650_mini_digital.html


< Message edited by OnTheEdge -- 3/27/2008 6:20 AM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 3/27/2008 4:56 PM  1 votes
P-51B



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< Message edited by P-51B -- 3/27/2008 7:08 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/4/2008 12:26 AM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Yes you can move the elevator servo(s) to the tail.I'm making a spot on 120 .I will use YS 140 Sports without tuned pipe and 16x12 APC.This engine is 930 grams with stock muffler. (Same as YS 110 muffler)so it needs back weight .I will use 2 pcs. Hitec HS 5245 MG digital mini's on the tail.I made 3mm ply doublers inside the fuse on the servo area.(Pls.see attached photos)I will add more photos in the future for the modifications on the tail and elevator system.I will mount the tank to the C.G. point.I will use Futaba S9252 digitals on ailerons and rudder,Hitec HS 85 MG on throttle.You can see the modifications on the attached photos,you can see the elevator servo extension cable guides inside the fuse .

Be careful guys,TWM uses hot melt adheshives for structure.If you are using large powerful engines (especially YS 4 Stroke engines)
the structure can failure in the future.I use semi-hard woods with epoxy on the former corners and critical everywhere...

The main landing gear needs some reinforcements.I use 4mm poplar plywood on the fuselage sides inside the front box,on the both sides.Remove the 6 pcs. landing gear mounting nuts ,add a hardwood block inside this area and drill these 6 holes again,finally take 6 pcs. nuts inside...

Other poor point is the wing centre.I use 3" glass cloth on the centre with lamination epoxy.One of our friend's Spot on's wing burst from the centre in a pattern paractice after 12 flights.Don't trust only aluminium tube and centre glueing.

One of the problemly thing is the covering.They are using "toughlon" same as the kyosho Oxalys 50.It is removed after several flights.It is cheap low quality covering.After the iron-on check,I used clear nail polish(Varnish) on all film edges.I have used on my Oxalys too and it is still OK,there is not and removing on the film.

I used hinge tape all of the surfaces for anti-fluttering.

Spot on is a little bit heavy for it's size (9 lbs. 6 ozs.),hope it will flies well...

There is nothing any info for the stab angle on the manual.I will begin with 0 degrees in the first flight ,then I will adjust it.

What should be the stab angle ? Is there any advise ?

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy

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< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/4/2008 7:13 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/4/2008 5:43 AM   
riot3d


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mehmet1846


What should be the stab angle ? Is there any advise ?





Start with 0 on the stab and about 1/4 degree +ve on the wing.

Adrian

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/4/2008 11:56 AM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Adrian,

I will adjust pozitive 1/4 degrees to the both stab after the first flight.(Leading edge of the stab must be high from the trealing edge) I hope , understand right ha ?

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy



< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/4/2008 2:27 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/5/2008 7:37 AM   
riot3d


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mehmet1846

Thanks Adrian,

I will adjust pozitive 1/4 degrees to the both stab after the first flight.(Leading edge of the stab must be high from the trealing edge) I hope , understand right ha ?

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy





Mehmet,

Since we do not know the exact thrust/ datum line on the plane, all you can do is to place the fuselage with the stabs installed on a flat table, get the fuse to look as parallel to the table as possible, you can also place a level on the turtleback. Set the two stab halves to zero with an incidence meter, then, check the incidence on the wing. Since this is a one piece wing, if you want positive incidence on the wing, you should lower the leading edge of the stab by 1/4 degree.

Adrian

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/5/2008 6:37 PM   
Straight Up


 

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Status: offline 		I'm confused why anyone would want positive incidence on the wing of a patternship? You want this plane to hold its line irrespective of speed or attitude, and positive incidence won't allow that. You'll probably have a slightly forward CG for test flying, which will counter-act the incidence, so the plane will trim reasonably well in straight-and-level flight. However, put it in a vertical dive and it will want to pull up. Put it knife-edge and it will pull towards the canopy. I'd strongly suggest you set it up 0-0 and adjust the CG until it handles neautrally. Self-recovery is not a desirable trait in a patternship.

However, those who disagree and want to set positive incidence, go for it - it's your plane. It'll be interesting to see the results you get. MEHMET: You DON'T want the positive incidence on the stab - this would make life REALLY hard!

- Straight Up

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/6/2008 1:29 AM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Straight up,

Thank you for your help.

You mean with 0-0 for the wing and stab,is it right ?

I made several pattern planes but not wooden ARF kits.Composite ones have a true instruction manuals and they signed the optimum angles.

Before I made all set up's with engine axis datum line referance.0 degrees engine down thrust and 0 degrees wing thrust and -0,5 degrees stab incidence.

This plane has not wing incidence system and wing is one piece.I don't measure but I think that it has +1.5 degrees incidence on the wing.


Best Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy

< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/8/2008 10:24 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/6/2008 2:28 AM   
Straight Up


 

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Status: offline 		Yes Mehmet, 0' incidence for the wing, and 0' incidence for the stab. If the wing has incidence relative to the thrust line, then align the stab the same. Right thrust on the motor definitely helps when flying upright, but what happens when the plane is inverted? The prop still spins the same way, but now the thrust line is reversed. I set-up my pattern planes 0-0-0-0 and trim the CG to fly the plane as neutrally as possible.

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/6/2008 11:06 AM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Straight up,

May be you can adjust the wing-stab-down thrust to 0 degrees incidence but you can not give the right thrust 0 degrees.If you make it the plane yaws left everytime and you can not fly.

Many of my models right thrust are 3-5 degrees .Although,I made throttle-right rudder mix many times.

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy



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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/7/2008 5:28 AM   
Straight Up


 

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Status: offline 		OK Mehmet, many people use side thrust. However, how do you cope when the aircraft is inverted? The prop still spins counter-clockwise when viewed from the front, but you now have left thrust....

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/7/2008 8:25 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Dear Adrian,

I made a incidence set-up. Wing is 0 degrees,stab is -0.5 degrees,down thrust is 1,5 degrees.

Is it good for beginning?

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/7/2008 9:08 PM   
F3A Unlimited



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Status: offline 		A symmetrical airfoil needs positive angle of attack to produce lift. You can do this by flying the fuse level and having the wing at positive incidence, or by flying "tail low" and producing positive angle that way. The vast majority of pattern planes fly with 1/2 degree of positive incidence- some a little more, some a little less. Just a fact. If someone likes a 0-0 set up for their style, that's fine too but that is not the norm.

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/7/2008 9:40 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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From: istanbul, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Dear ual 767,

You mean,set the wing to zero and take it as a referance line ,set the stab -0.5 from the referance and set the engine 1-2 degree down thrust from the referance.Am I right ?

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy

< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/7/2008 9:56 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/7/2008 10:23 PM   
F3A Unlimited



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Status: offline 		No, I would suggest a starting point of + 1/2 degree in the wing and zero in the stab. That is a "normal" starting place. This way the fuse will be flying level and not tail down. Use the thrust settings that are suggested in the kit and go from there. The problem is finding a zero reference in the fuse so that you know when you are at +1/2 in the wing. I am not familiar with this plane so I'm not sure what the zero reference should be - many times it will be parallel with the canopy base or sometimes parallel with the bottom of the fuse. At some point you just need to fly it and go from there and that is where an experienced pattern flyer would be able to help and save you hours of trying to figure out what adjustments should be made.

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/8/2008 3:00 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		There are a 3mm dia. steel rod and fiberglass tube on the back of the fuselage.Centres of these parts must be the 0 degree axle of the stab.Is it right ?

I have many questions,I know but my incidence meter is not acuurate,it is old robart mechanical and it has parallax problems etc.

I want to make this by the lines and trigonometric formulas.

If the 3 mm dia. steel pim and fiber tube axis is the stab zero line it is more good for me...

Regards

Mehmet Arcasoy

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/8/2008 10:32 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Today I mount the elevator and rudder servos.I attached some photos about those...

I enlarged the main landing gear holes because the landing gears touches the sides of the hole.It means vibration and dangerous force to the structure.

Elevator servos needs paralellism to the elevator horn axis so I made 4 mm and 2 mm ply steps under these servos.

I add some triangular wood to the front-bottom side of the fuse for additional strenght for the landing gears.

You can see the 4 mm ply doublers inside the front of the fuselage.

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< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/8/2008 10:36 PM >

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/10/2008 8:40 AM   
ruddleto


 

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Status: offline 		I have two 9650s on mine mounted in the last bay at the rear of the fuselage,pushrods on the out side,balances perfectly with an OS 120 AX and Hyde mount.
I used some World Models Toughlon to cover the holes made in the original covering

Just make up two eighth ply servo mounts and glue them between the thoughtfully provided rails on the fuselage after thorough sanding of both surfaces.
I have 30 flights on mine and they havent fallen out yet !!!!!!

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/10/2008 11:41 AM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Ruddleto,

Hyde mount needs nose ring.How did you made it ?Because hyde mounts produced for works with nose ring on the engine axis.

Regards

Mehmet

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/10/2008 12:18 PM   
riot3d


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mehmet1846

Hello Ruddleto,

Hyde mount needs nose ring.How did you made it ?Because hyde mounts produced for works with nose ring on the engine axis.

Regards

Mehmet



Mehmet,

If he's using a Type C mount, it doesn't require a nose ring, supposedly a firm idle mount. Actually, the Hyde may not be a bad idea, since it only weighs 5.9 oz, as compared to World's 8.6 oz. If you want to use a mount with nose ring incorporated, Budd Engineering has one, and weighs in at 6.3 oz. However, you have to re-drill the holes on the firewall.

I believe you're not using a pipe? Therefore, if you choose your mount wisely, with the two ele servos in the back, you should get it to balance pretty close to suggested cg range. If it's still ended up a bit nose heavy, you can always relocate the tank to the cg point per my suggestion earlier.

Good luck,

Adrian

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/10/2008 11:02 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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From: istanbul, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Thanks Adrian.

I finished the model just 30 minutes ago.The tank is on C.G. area and the balance is perfect with stock muffler.the C.G. point is 130 mm from the Leading of the wing side of the fuselage.

However,model is 4457 gr's. Tomorrow I will check the Latteral balance.

I made the stabs with the same angle with the wings for starting point.After the maiden I will make several checks and adjustments...

Today I bought a Hangar-9 incidence meter and next week it will arrived.

I will add some photos tomorrow for details.

Regards

Mehmet

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/10/2008 11:13 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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Status: offline 		I forgot to write it,my plane will fly on May 3rd. on Ankara Local F3A Sportsman Championship.Then it will fly on June 1st. on F3A Sportsman Class TURKEY Nationals.

It's excited for me...

Regards

Mehmet

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/11/2008 4:42 AM   
riot3d


 

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ORIGINAL: mehmet1846

However,model is 4457 gr's. Tomorrow I will check the Latteral balance.




4,457 g, that's pretty heavy. Mine came out at 4,390 g, that's with a NMP header and a long Johnson pipe. Take a closer look, you should be able to shed some weight.

How big of a battery pack are you using?

Adrian

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/11/2008 10:57 AM   
piroflip2



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ORIGINAL: Straight Up

OK Mehmet, many people use side thrust. However, how do you cope when the aircraft is inverted? The prop still spins counter-clockwise when viewed from the front, but you now have left thrust....



Do you know why a model uses right thrust?
From your statement above it seems not.
A model requires right thrust whether it is upright or inverted.

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RE: World Models Spot-On 120 - 4/11/2008 12:04 PM   
mehmet1846


 

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From: istanbul, TURKEY
Status: offline 		Dear Adrian,

I'm using Futaba 4 cell 1500 mAh Ni-Cd battery. But I will change it 2 cell Li-Po 7.4 V 1000 mAh and 5.1 V regulator.

Ni-Cd battery is 120 gr. Li-Po and regulator is 70 gr.

The pretty heavy is about landing gear strenghtening parts and lamination epoxy.Buy in the future I will make them because the frame

is not strong.In needs these reinforcements for long life...

Regards

Mehmet

< Message edited by mehmet1846 -- 4/11/2008 12:09 PM >

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