Posts: 11367
Joined: 2/25/2002 From: Central, CA, USA Status: offline
In the next few days all the important components for the new 50cc Sukhoi will be arriving at my door so I thought folks might want to see a build and flight performance thread to go along with this new kit. In talking with Tom we agreed that this plane will be done pretty much "box stock" using the in house 3mm 53cc engine and house muffler, the optional hardware kit, (5) Hitec 5955 servos and (1) 8611 servo since I came up short one 5955, SWB servo arms, probably 1-1/4" in length, One Fromeco 5,600mAh flight battery and regulator, one Fromeco 2,300 mAh ignition battery and regulator, and only one possible change in hardware by using a RCBlimpro titanium unit since I already have one. Everything used will be noted, along with any tips or difficulties that are discovered as it moves along.
I don't have a programmer so all you Hitec diehards please forgive me for using a Matchbox to link up the elevator servos.
The engine and servos should be arriving today with the plane next Monday if UPS gets their delivery days to match the shipping notification dates. I'll be out looking to see where I left my camera in anticipation of the new arrival and will be posting pictures and notes as the build proceeds. Then the fun part, The flight side! I love 3D and don't have time for IMAC so the flight report will focus on the 3D side of the envelope. Bear with me and permit a little time to get used to the plane before it gets down and dirty.
So stand by, it's comin' soon...
< Message edited by Silversurfer -- 5/15/2007 3:42:20 AM >
_____________________________
If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
He hasn't even started yet and I already have to tell him how to do things!
I flew the first one with 5645s in the wing and 6985s for the elevators. That's right, Karbonite gears. Because that's what I had. Your 5955s are way overkill but should be fun.
I also used a 2400mah Li-Ion battery pack on Rx and 730mah Nimh for ignition. Apparently Pat plans to fly this thing for an endurance record.
Matchbox? Why not just use two channels on elevators? Or does JR not support that feature? (wink wink nudge nudge).
Posts: 11367
Joined: 2/25/2002 From: Central, CA, USA Status: offline
It does but I don't have the time to spend reading the manual and working through all the trim an offset functions that will come to bear. JR likes to provide about 40% of what you need in the manuals and let you struggle and fumble through from there. Since I use the Matchboxes a lot it only takes about ten minutes to have both servos dialed in and ready to go.
I have the battery packs noted and like not having to charge everyday with a 50cc plane. Also flying 3D places a heavier amp load on batteries not normally encountered in IMAC. The day I see 45 degree deflections used in an IMAC contest for the majority of the maneuvers I'm going home. Using the sizes I noted I can fly for 2 or 3 days and no recharge. The weight penalty is 3.3 ounces over using a smaller flight battery. For me the use of nimh or nicad batteries is not an option. If there was a substantial weight savings with the same capacity I would go with lithium manganese for both and use the same Fromeco regulators.
As for the servos, I'm one that likes to "over size" so I can move equipment up, not just down. If I buy and fly a servo that's more than I need for a small plane it will be there when I go to a larger plane. For a few bucks per servo up front I save from having to buy twice and come out quite a few dollars ahead in the end. The fact that I've even considered Hitec servos is quite a step for me, so I'm not going with minimun equipment lists. I learned a long, long time ago that purchasing what a plane "requires" sets me up for having to buy the same number of products in a beefier size all over again for the next plane. That's worked with engines, radios, servos, and just about everything else I've used. That justs costs waaay too much in the long run.
BTW, when I went over to the flying field used by Jeffro#### in Oregon we flew from 10 am to 7:00pm and I quit counting the number of times I flew after the sixth flight. That's a lot of battery time without recharging. So now everyone has my reasoning for the equipment used. It can be done a couple ounces lighter and a few dollars cheaper, but this method is just my way.
_____________________________
If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
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Joined: 2/29/2004 From: Port Edwards,
WI, USA Status: offline
Silver, Mine should be here in a few days too. I have Tom's 3MM 53cc sitting on the bench already. I'll be using 5645s for the ailerons and elevators. I have a JR 8611A for the rudder. It'll use one NIMH 1500 for ignition and one 2800 Li-Ion for the flightpack. Hopefully, it'll balance good with no spinner and no pants. I'll be interjecting my thoughts and summaries on the plane throughout this thread.
Posts: 11367
Joined: 2/25/2002 From: Central, CA, USA Status: offline
Glad to have you. Especially since you will be using much of what Tom suggested.
Engine and Hardware
Engine
The box with the 3mm-53 engine and the optional hardware kit arrived today. I must say, the engine casting looks better than most of the 3w castings I have seen, and that has been a lot of engines! I have four 3w engines here at the house right now and not one of them looks as good as the 3mm. The machine work on the hub is very clean. The hub bolt pattern is the same as a DA-100 so if you have one of the DA drill guides laying around it will be a good tool. Don't despair if you do not. If you have access to a drill press and take your time you can use the prop washer itself. Just make sure your work is secure and don't rush the holes. Once you have the first hole drilled drop a short bolt through the prop washer and prop to keep everything aligned and drill away!
This particular carb came fully equipped with usable throttle and choke levers. What a welcome change. I've become so fed up with engine suppliers sending out aircraft engines with a throttle tab designed for a weed eater and not usable on a plane so I'm extremely relieved to see an engine I don't have to modify. Thanks Tom, hope that's being done with all of them. Heck, even the fuel inlet is pointing the right way for a change. Most of the new engines I usually see have the inlet pointed to the side or down for some reason. In some cases even forward! All the carb levers rotate in the right directions, forward and aft. There's no awkward or difficult linkage arrangements that will be needed to make everything work right. Definately plug and play for the most part.
Intreresting positioning of the carb. In an upright position, the carb is located low on the left side of the case with the needles angled down and slightly aft. I do not ever suggest that a carb be tuned with a spinning propeller and I don't so so now, but with a cowl removed the carb needles are accessable from behind the engine and on the "top" in an inverted engine installation. Hmmmm, pretty nice!.
Too bad the muffler is always inside the cowl. This one is well polished and would look good outside the cowl. Oh well. Note the baffle inside the muffler. This is a step up from most mufflers which are usually nothing more than a means to divert the exhaust out and away form the engine, and have no form of baffle at all. The baffle will help considerably in reducing exhaust noise, and may well reduce it to a level where noise sensitive fields may not require a cannister. That saves money!!
Tom has provided a 4 page set of engine instructions that anyone should be able to understand and follow. Probably the best set of "working" directions I have ever seen. Step by step how to tune the engine, what to listen for and what to do. He also included a 1 pint bottle of Pennzoil Air Cooled Two Stroke oil so you can't go wrong if you simply read and follow the instructions. Save everyone and yourself a lot of time, work, and frustration and read the instructions before starting the engne the first time. Please.
The instructions contain information that will help the user in correctly securing the propeller. Pay attention to this section closely since propeller hubs from various manufacturers are not the same in thickness and may require the use of a longer or shorter prop bolt in some cases.
Of course the engine comes with the ignition and CM-6 spark plug. All you'll need to complete the engine installation is a switch and battery for the ignition.
Looking at the cylinder head and inside the exhaust port reveals some nice features. The piston uses a twin ring design which greatly assists in shedding heat. The inside exhaust port is "ovaled", which helps the ring positioning inside the cylinder, holding the rings better in the piston and reducing ring wear where they pass over the exhaust port. The cylinder head itself has a lot of fin area. More than adaquate to keep this baby cool in most installations and requiring only a little help from the user in tightly cowled applications.
As noted in the instructions the ignition timing is pretty much fixed. There is a small amount of adjustment available in the hall sensor, but only about 5 or 6 degrees total overall. The nice thing about that is it means that engine pretty much has to be correctly timed when it gets to the user. There's not enough room to get it wrong.
Hardware
Since I know the question will come up at least twice before this build thread is concluded I'm going to list the full contents of the optional hardware pack. As follows:
(1) Dubro 24 ounce fuel tank (1) Dubro Gas Conversion Stopper, use this one not the one that comes with the tank. The one with the tank is for glow fuel and will melt with gas. 3 feet Dubro 1/8"i.d. tygon fuel tubing. !/8 will easily feed a 150cc engine so there's no need for anything larger. (2) Dubro 2"x3/16" Steel Axle Shafts. (4) Dubro 3/16" wheel collars Approximately 10 feet of pull/pull rudder cable and associated hardware. (4) Wild Hare ball link assemblies for 4-40 rod with 8-32 screws for elevator and aileron horns. No "A" nuts. You don't need them. (7) Servo extension "keepers". They've come to be known as "squiggles" and work well. (2) 1/16" hairpin cotters. A very nice safety when used in the anti rotation wing dowels. (4) Sullivan clevises. The good kind. (1) Fuel line "Tee". (1) Fuel dot. Glue or silicone in type that works very well. (2) 4-40x1" nylon screws. (2) 1 foot lengths of 3/16" fiberglass tubing for control rods. (2) 4-40x 12" threaded rods with nylon clevises. I haven't figurerd out what these are for yet. Probably choke and throttle. (1) 4/40x12" all thread rod for the inside of the fiberglass tubes. Includes instructions for making the pushrods. Too easy. Miscelleneous nuts, bolts, screws, and washers. (2) 3-1/2" Dubro treaded wheels. (2) Wild Hare rudder horns and (1) 8-32 screw. Very similar to the Dubro long tab type.
Typically the tail wheel assembly and hinges come in the box with the plane. As a rule there will also be an additional package of factory supplied hardware. Some of it you'll use, and some you won't. The factory supplied metric axles are pretty soft and the metric wheel collars often don't fit. I guarantee that you won't find a wrench or socket that fits them of any type other than Crescent. That's why Wild Hare provides the option of a stronger Dubro set in the optional harware pack. An aluminum wing tube will be standard.
I ordered a carbon wing tube to go with the plane since my flying style always bends aluminum ones. Also obtained was a 22-10 Bunny prop. I had been thinking that the 10 pitch might be a bit much but looking at this pretty piece of wood is making me think it may be a good choice. We'll see about that later. Nice to see the Bunny has now made it to the prop blades. Kinda rounds things out if you will.
I'll be using a 3-1/2" Esprit Models fiberglass spinner on this one. They come in one color, white, and I don't know if I'll get around to painting it or not. They weigh nothing. The only real weight is the aluminum backplate and a good portion of that has been removed to lighten the spinner even more. Easy to fit and cut, and the inside of the backplate center is raised and ribbed to better hold the prop for those using only a center prop bolt. Since the spinner is secured to the backplate at the side with four 3mm button head allen screws you don't need a prop adapter or long spinner screw. With the 3mm engine, you would not need a spinner adapter in any case. The end of the prop shaft is drilled and tapped to accept a spinner bolt. I'm not sure of the screw size yet but it appears to be the same as the prop retention screws.
That's it for now, the plane should arrive next week. Hopefully all the above will clear any questions about the engine and hardware kit. It's a good value with quality parts and will save a lot of time going to a hobby shop. At today's gas prices that's saying a lot. I'll be back with more when the plane arrives.
< Message edited by Silversurfer -- 5/10/2007 8:30:14 PM >
_____________________________
If you can''''t fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.
Awesome, looking forward to reading about the build. There has been quite abit of talk about the 50cc sukhoi here in Oz so I'm sure Howie will get them in.
In reguards to the match boxes, I think it is a quick, easy and very reliable way to run elevator servos. I have run them in both my 50cc planes and it works a treat, and the matchboxes are alot cheaper than the hitec programmer.
This particular carb came fully equipped with usable throttle and choke levers. What a welcome change. I've become so fed up with engine suppliers sending out aircraft engines with a throttle tab designed for a weed eater and not usable on a plane so I'm extremely relieved to see an engine I don't have to modify. Thanks Tom, hope that's being done with all of them. Heck, even the fuel inlet is pointing the right way for a change. Most of the new engines I usually see have the inlet pointed to the side or down for some reason. In some cases even forward!
That's one of my contributions. Nothing drives me nuts quite as quickly as an engine that cannot be used without modification.
quote:
Of course the engine comes with the ignition and CM-6 spark plug. All you'll need to complete the engine installation is a switch and battery for the ignition. You'll have to add a plug to the ignition switc lead that matches that on the switch you intend to use.
Pat, I think if you look more closely you'll see the ignition is indeed equipped with a Futaba style female servo connector on the battery lead. The ignition supplier includes a matching male pigtail in case you are using a switch that does not have a mating connector.
If you use all standard switches and battery packs no soldering is required.
Also Pat did not mention that the ignition comes with some nice plastic "wrap" that can and should be wound around the plug wire and other wires to prevent abrasion which can be done easily by rubbing on the fiberglass cowl.
quote:
(4) Sullivan clevises. The good kind.
All the new hardware kits now come with nice 4-40 ball links. You can get clevises if you prefer but most people want to use ball links.
quote:
Since the spinner is secured to the backplate at the side with four 3mm button head allen screws you don't need a prop adapter or long spinner screw.
I don't sell these, but I've used them and they are great. However, if you plan to use one when you order your spinner do yourself a favor and at the same time order a bag of 3mm x 6mm button head screws from micro fasteners. The first thing you will do (and I mean the very first) is remove the screws, and one of them (or more) will drop on the floor and roll under something and disappear. For $5 you will save yourself a lot of cursing.
A short follow up. I mounted the 3mm 53 on mine yesterday, The installation is very easy, requires 1" standoffs which I made from oak dowels in about 5 minutes, and 4 x 2.5" screws. This puts the prop about 1/4" ahead of the cowl face. The muffler fits nicely inside the cowl with no butchering, and without a spark plug in the engine the cowl will fit over the engine without any cutting. So it looks like the only cutting will be a small hole to clear the spark plug/cap (may not be needed) and perhaps a V cut at the rear to allow more cooling air to vent.
This is the easiest engine mounting operation I have ever done with a gas engine.
TF
< Message edited by rctom -- 5/10/2007 3:42:01 PM >
Posts: 11367
Joined: 2/25/2002 From: Central, CA, USA Status: offline
Tom,
You're right, my bad. I did not open the bag with the ignition yesterday and only saw an open wire end. The ignition switch wire DOES have the Futaba connector, and the open end I saw was the male wire end that was included for the owner to use on their switch if needed. That's nice. NOBODY does that! BTW, JR plugs directly into a Futaba plug without modification. The new style Airtronics will too, but the old style Airtronics will not without changing wire locations in the plug. Basically, using the Futaba female lead on the ignition covered just about all the bases for most switches in use today.
Looking inside the ignition cap and you'll note that the cap has the silicone insert. That's a lot better than the rubber insert that will break down over time. This eliminates the need for a later cap rework. Another very nice touch. The module has a note that you can use either 4.8 or 6v batteries, so that allows some flexibility in battery choices. You have two sizes of spiral wrap included with the engine. One is large for the plug wire and the other is smaller for the electrical leads. Use them since they do a good job of protecting things from abrasion. This is noted in the engine instructions and for those tha have not used a gas engine before I can't stress enough how quickly a cowl can cut a plug wire if they're not separated.
I didn't think anyone would be interested in engine pics. I guess I was wrong. I'll get some done and uploaded a little later today. That Bunny prop deserves a couple of frames by itself Here's a pic with some of the new Wild Hare ball links and rudder hardware.
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic >> WildHare R/C Support >> 50cc Sukhette Build Thread, now in progress!! 
50cc Sukhette Build Thread, now in progress!! - 
Here's a pic with some of the new Wild Hare