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The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:21:40 AM   
blw



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General disjointed notes and comments on Saito engines.
William L. Robison, The Airplane Company. Mary Esther, Florida, USA
Copyright 2001-2006

Feel free to pass this on to anyone who is interested, with the sole request that my name be maintained, and any quotations posted should indicate their source.
Please note this file is dynamic, not set, I will continue adding to it. There may be no additions for several days, or there may be eight or ten paragraphs added in one day. I will not maintain your file, but you are always free to request a new down load to get the latest additions.

WLR.

ABC/AAC identification, o/haul inspection
Now to your FA-120.

First, look at the cam cover. Do the cylinder fins reach out over the cover, or does it look like the cover can be taken off with the cylinder in place? With the fins out over the cam box you have the ABC engine, the small fins are the AAC cylinder. The ABC version has bronze valve seats, OK to lap the valves. The AAC cylinder has hard chrome seats, plated on the base metal aluminum. Do not lap the valves in the AAC cylinder. If you grind the plating down, it will flake and the cylinder will have to be replaced. Use a pencil eraser (a big one) and spin it on the seat if it needs cleaning, chuck the valve in your Dremel after you clean the seats and use the eraser again to polish the valve. If the valve leaks after this, replace it. Install new valve springs, they lose their tension after a period of time, and they are cheap.

The cylinder bore, whether the ABC or the AAC, is the last thing that will wear out in your engine. I have replaced only two cylinders that weren't crash damage. One was destroyed by an owner who ignored the bearing noise, bits of the bearing scraped nice grooves in the chrome plating on the cylinder wall. The other was an AAC where the owner knew he should lap the valves. Cost him more than he wanted.

The piston, if you can check it, should have 0.0005" to 0.0015" skirt clearance. Or give it a good inspection by eye. If you still see the grinding marks over most of the skirt it's fine to re use. The con rod should have about 0.0005" clearance on the wrist pin, up to 0.002" on the crank pin is OK. Install a new piston ring.

Wear on the cam lobes is OK, pitting or visible damage is not. If you replace the cam you must replace the tappets at the same time, or risk cam failure.

Install a new ceramic bearing at the rear of the crank, and if you wish use a ceramic at the front also. Just be sure the front bearing is a rubber sealed one, the shielded bearings will leak oil badly.

The oil leakage from the push rod tubes indicates either a very high time engine, or a plugged crankcase breather nipple. The only way for oil to get there is past the tappets. If the ring has a lot of blow by, the internal pressure can force more than the normal amount of oil past them. Or they themselves are worn to a very loose condition.

The tubes don't have o-rings on them anyway, and the rubber seals are only sold with new pushrod tubes.

That's enough for now. Read it through, look at your engine, then ask more questions as you think of them.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:37:09 PM >


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The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.
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RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:23:36 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
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AAC/ABC again, early 120S

Positive identification of the various big block engines can be a little difficult, but I think what you got is the latest version of the FA-120. If it's a white box it's almost definite.

ABC/AAC - in the first picture you can see the cylinder fins extending over the cam box, this is the ABC cylinder. Contrast that to the second picture with the fins much smaller. The smaller fins are the AAC type. Contrary to what you might think, the smaller fins give no loss of cooling since the brass/aluminum joint was less efficient, the ABC needed the larger fins, the AAC does not. The AAC therefore is lighter not only by eliminating the cast in brass sleeve, but less metal is needed for the fins.

In the first picture note the push rod tubes going all the way down to the cam box, this is the "Low cam" engine. In all the others, if you look closely, the "Lump" in the rubber is well above the cam box, this is the sign of the "High" cam. Fifth picture shows it clearly.

The third picture shows what you probably got. The early hot FA-120S still had the cast sign "FA-120" on the right side, the later ones have the sticker that says only "120S" there. This was probably an economy measure for Saito, using the same casting for all the big block engines and just putting the right sticker on each size. Internal machining is different, but the outside is the same.

All the parts of the original FA-120S and the later version will interchange except the cylinder and intake pipe. Since the original version had only the o-ring seal for the intake pipe it also had a metal mounting bracket added to support the carb.
ABC Advantages
There are many things I prefer about the older ABC cylinders as compared to the later AAC parts.

The ABC has nicely finished ports, well radiused to flow the intake and exhaust with a minimum of turbulence. The AAC has all straight edges and hard corners in the ports, maximum turbulence and resultant restriction of the flow. The ABC has genuine bronze valve guides and seats, a damaged seat can be repaired. The AAC has brass guides and the seats are thin chrome plating over the base aluminum. Any valve seat damage and the cylinder is junk. The ABC has nice size fins on it, it looks like an engine. The AAC has small fins that look like they were stuck on as an afterthought.

The only advantage (to me) of the AAC is that it's a LOT lighter. And that's a BIG advantage.

Addendum by moderator: For those of you needing pictures of the 120 which at times is most difficult to identify, there are pictures,some of which originally went along with this series, in the following thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6846880/anchors_6846880/mpage_1/key_saito%252C120/anchor/tm.htm#6846880

< Message edited by w8ye -- 1/12/2008 6:15:37 PM >


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The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

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RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:24:18 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
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From: Auburn, AL, USA
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AAC life

Is there a longevity issue with the aluminum bores?

In a word, no.

There are many ways to make an engine cylinder, the old classic is an iron block with a ringed piston. Works great, has a long life, but it's heavy. Many of the older engines actually had iron pistons, the "Stovebolt" Chevys for example. They were tin plated to prevent problems with similar metals rubbing. Some diesels still use iron crowns and aluminum skirts on two piece pistons. Strong, but still heavy.

Air cooled aviation engines often are built with the cylinder fins turned as part of the steel cylinder, using ringed aluminum pistons. The aluminum cylinder head sometimes has an iron "Skull" cast into it, usually it's plain aluminum, and usually has internal threads to allow it to be screwed onto the top of the cylinder if it is a radial engine. Some, like the old Kinner radials, had a flange at the top of the cylinder and the head was fastened with short screws.

In an attempt to lower the weight further, some makers used a finned aluminum "Muff" pressed on the steel cylinders. This worked, but the cooling was not as good because of the joint between the steel and the aluminum - it tended to open as the aluminum expanded more than the steel. With sufficient air flow there was no problem, but they did tend to overheat if idled too long. As an example, this was a problem with the early Technopower radials.

Almost universal in our early model engines was a steel sleeve with either a ringed aluminum piston, or a piston made of "Meehanite" iron alloy with a lapped fit in the bore.

The first real change in construction was the ABC engine, using a brass sleeve in the aluminum muff, chrome plated tapered bore, with an aluminum piston. The brass expands more than the steel sleeves did heat transfer isn't a problem. And by taking advantage of the expansion, the piston fit could be controlled very nicely. But the brass was still heavier than the aluminum.

Two makers took a side track from the ABC; Thunder Tiger and OS engines started using nickel plating instead of chrome. TT has never had a problem with the ABN engines, I've only heard of one failure, caused by a bearing coming apart. Bits of bearing removed the plating. OS, on the other hand, has a lurid history of liners peeling. They seem to have it right now, shelling looks to be a thing of the past with OS. Their reputation was so badly damaged by the peeling that with the AX engines they started calling it "ABL" instead of ABN. It's still ABN even with their new name.

There were some experiments in here for running a ringed piston directly against an aluminum cylinder bore, probably the first one most of you heard of was the Chevrolet Vega engine. This engine had problems, but they were not caused by the piston/cylinder fit. The way this was made to work was a high silicon content in the aluminum. I have a Mercedes 500 AMG, 26 years old, with the same type block. At its last overhaul standard size pistons and rings went back in, wear is not a problem. There is a variation on this called "Nikasil," this is a process applied after the block is machined, it allows a less expensive alloy to be used for the block.

Chrome plated aluminum? Way back in the late 40s and early 50s, McCullough (yes, chain saw McCullough) started chrome plating directly on the aluminum cylinder bores, not just the chain saws but also the engines they built for target drones. Porsche (cars) was also working on the same thing. They both got it to work fine after some teething difficulties,

So now, using 50 year old technology, we can eliminate the steel liners that didn't cool well, and the brass liners that are heavy. What we can't do, is run a lapped piston. It has to be a ringed engine. I'm sure some have tried, but I know of none that have been successful without a ringed piston. For obvious reasons, this construction method is called AAC for Aluminum piston, Aluminum bore, Chrome plated.

This AAC is the best yet for our engines. Good heat transfer, light weight, and a bulletproof cylinder bore.

In the Saito AAC engines I have never seen a cylinder replaced due to failure of the plating. I have replaced them due to scoring from a disintegrated bearing, others due to crash damage, even one where the owner tried to lap the valves and ruined the valve seats. Plating failure? Never.

There are still other methods I've not discussed, for example Norvel has what they call "Revlite" which I think is a variation of anodizing, but I'm not sure.

And you can tell your buddy that YS uses something similar to Nikasil, but I'm not sure of their process. And OS four strokes are all ringed pistons in the easily worn steel cylinders, except the FL-70 which uses ABN in a tapered bore and no ring on the piston.

If you make it through this, congratulations. I did run on here.
After run oil – how the #% do I get it in the crankcase?
Some few twins have two crankcase ports, but none of the singles do. As a result when you try to force the ARO in it tends to blow back out. No problem.

Got a plastic squeeze bottle with a tapered spout, the sort that you put your tomato catsup or mustard in. Best if you can see the level of the contents. If the tip is small enough to go into the vent hose you’re done. If not a short length of brass tubing can be forced in the tip, or you can cut the tip back to get a larger diameter that will let you push the vent hose inside.

Fill it about ½ way with your favorite AR oil, and you are ready.

Pull the vent hose out the top of the plane, or if not convenient turn the plane over, just be sure the hose is pointing up. Attach your new oil bottle to the hose. Then holding the bottle with the tip down turn the engine slowly.

While the piston is going down in the bore you’ll see bubbles in the oil bottle, then when the piston is going up it will draw oil back into the engine. Keep turning until you have drawn an ounce or so of oil in. Unhook the bottle, turn the plane back upright (Or the hose back out the bottom) and spin the engine for a few seconds with your starter. This last will make sure the oil is run everywhere inside the engine, and blow any excess out.

Simple, isn’t it?

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:34:13 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 3

RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:25:18 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
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After run oil – why use it?

As the engine runs acids are formed in the combustion process. Most of the acids are blown out the exhaust, but some also blow by the piston along with the oil for the bottom end. Some of the acid and other corrosives go out the vent, but just as with the oil, a lot stays in the engine. Some unburned methanol and nitromethane also get in the crank case. There is no way to avoid this contamination. The same thing happens in your car engine, one of the main reasons for regular oil changes.

There is nothing we can do to prevent these acids working while the engine is running, but they are not in a high concentration so their effect is minimal. If left in the engine after running though, they will continue to eat away at the internal metals.

The easiest way to prevent short term damage is using an oil with a high film strength. Synthetic oils do not have this high film strength, they tend to drain off surfaces quickly, and the acids remain, starting their damage. Castor oil on the other hand has an extremely high film strength. This not only makes your airplane harder to clean after flight, it leaves a coating on the internal parts that is resistant to penetration by the acids and other corrosives. An added benefit of the high film strength of the castor oil is decreased wear of the cam lobes and tappets.

We can also flush the engine, and neutralize the acids. This is where the after run oil comes in. An ideal after run oil will have chemical buffers that not only will neutralize the acid, they will also counter any alkaline corrosives left in the engine. The ideal oil will have high “Moisture Displacement” qualities as well, lifting any water off the metal and replacing the water with an oil film. Dexron automatic transmission fluid has all these desired qualities.

So when your day’s flying is finished pump the tank dry, and spin the engine with glow heat applied, and run it dry also. Then pump a healthy slug of Dexron ATF into the crank case, turn the engine a few turns by hand to be sure it’s not too full and apply your electric starter to give the engine a good spin, get all the inside coated, and blow the excess oil out the vent.

The castor oil in the fuel, and religious use of after run oiling, will make your engine last a lot longer before any repairs are needed.
More on castor oil and ARO:
Synthetic oil has only one advantage over castor oil, or maybe two. One, it doesn’t make as much mess on the plane, and possibly the second is that it doesn’t gum with time.

This gumming of castor though, is one of its advantages. Synthetics have a low film strength, when the engine is shut down they will run off the metal parts leaving them with no protection. The castor, with its high film strength, will stay on the metal even after it has thickened or gummed, continuing the protection of the bearings and other parts.

The high film strength of the castor also makes it a much better lubricant of rubbing parts such as the cam shaft and tappets. I have never seen a bad cam lobe in an engine run with castor and the valve lash checked regularly, on the other hand it’s not uncommon for an engine run with pure synthetic to need a set of tappets at overhaul, and sometimes a cam shaft as well.

Anybody know about Technopower radial engines? Prices start about $2000 for the smallest ones. The maker will let you run them on 5% oil, provided it’s all castor. Without affecting the warranty. You insist on synthetic? Stay with 18% minimum for the warranty to stay in effect. This is a good comparison of the lubricating qualities of castor and synthetic oils.

Marc Linville, owner of Technopower, told me yesterday he would be happier if no one had ever started using synthetic oils. This was in a conversation when I was asking about delivery time of two engines I’ve had on order for too long. Not only expensive, they are also very low production.

In my opinion after run oil, or some form of crankcase flush, is an absolute requirement when running a four stroke engine. Even running all the fuel out with an electric starter wont get the methanol out of the crankcase. The methanol immediately starts drawing moisture into the case. If using castor oil there is some protection, but if it’s going to be more than a week before running the engine again it’s cheap insurance.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:33:17 PM >


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The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
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RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:26:22 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
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From: Auburn, AL, USA
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Bearings – general notes:

Any bearing has to have some clearance for its lubrication – plain, roller whether tapered or straight, needle, and ball bearings as well. Without clearance for the oil or grease the balls, rollers, or bearing surface would immediately overheat and fail.

As a result of this clearance there will always be slop even in a brand new bearing. Some have more, a ball bearing with a C4 rating for example, others less as in a C1 rated bearing.

The bearing clearance depends on what type of lube will be used, the rpm expected, and the installation fit.

If the bearing is a press fit in the case the outer race will be compressed, if it is also a press fit on the shaft the inner race will be stretched. As a result a C4 bearing could well have a C2 fit when installed.

In Saito engines the bearings are a light press fit in the case when cold, at operating temperature they are almost a free fit. The shaft is a light hand fit through them, so a C3 bearing gives us a C3 running fit. A C2 bearing can be used, but the C3 gives better life.

And why should the looser bearing last longer? Now we’re down to lubrication. The tighter fit leaves less room for the oil, making the lubrication require better oils, that is, oils with a high film strength. With the looser fit lower film strength is needed, so we can usually get away with using synthetic oils.

Additionally, regardless of the C rating, as the rpm goes up centrifugal force increases the contact pressure of the balls on the outer races, the higher the film strength the higher the resistance to pressing through the oil, leading to bearing failure.

Final notes. With the clearance in the bearings there will always be some small amount of free play, when cold with stiff oil you may not notice it but 1/16” play (or more) at the tip of the prop can sometimes be noted with brand new bearings, and this is not an indication of any fault.



Break in of a fresh engine

A piston ring is seated in the first few seconds of engine running after its installation. This holds from the smallest to the largest of ringed engines, and is dependent on cylinder pressure to force the ring against the bore. Therefore, the initial running should be done at a high power setting.

My way is to allow the engine a few seconds to come up in temperature, then I immediately peak the mixture at full throttle, then right back to idle. For the first few minutes of running the engine goes to full throttle for about five seconds, then back to a rich idle for twenty. This gives me the high cylinder pressure to seat the ring while at full, and then at idle more oil is spread on the working parts.

After these first few minutes I'll go back to full and get about 800 rich drop, then lean the idle a bit but not all the way, and put the engine in a plane. Over the next hour or two I'll slowly lean the idle, and bring the HS closer to peak. After a couple hours total time the engine is all ready for extended high power, and I've been able to fly the fuel through the engine instead of oiling the grass at my house. Or not oiling the grass as much as many do.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:31:42 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 5

RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:27:31 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
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Cam wear

The engine’s power is enhanced by the maximum open duration, meaning the least valve clearance we can use. This can affect the idle, but normally the effect is minor at most.

Wear? Let’s suppose you have a landing strip with a 20 foot hill right in the middle. On take off, with the plane accelerating along the ground it will roll up the hill with no problem, and if not yet to flying speed will roll smoothly down the back side. This can be likened to the tappets with minimum clearance. When you land, if you touch down on the flat before the hill you still have no problem. On the other hand, if you come in at a four foot altitude your touch down on the slope of the hill will test your landing gear at best, at ten feet altitude you will probably have to get out your glue before flying again. This is an analogue to loose valve clearance, and these early cam grinds work best with no more than ½ thousandth inch clearance.

Now let’s suppose someone has built up a four foot rise from the flat part, with a few feet of level runway between the four foot rise and the rest of the upslope of the hill. Now, if you come in with the four feet altitude you’ll touch on that short level area, and again roll gently up the hill. This is like the later cams that have a quieting ramp, and should be set at 0.04 mm clearance.

All current Saito cams have quieting ramps. Sad to say, the only way to tell the old and new grinds apart is to degree the cam lift, the ramp will show in the profile graph.

Now we’ll forget about airstrips with hills in the middle, and get to the cams and valve gear.

With the clearance set to the minimum the tappets are accelerated smoothly up the ramp, with minimum forces on the face of the tappet. With looser clearance the tappet will be hitting the side of the lobe, with much higher contact pressure. Granted, the tappet may be touching the base circle of the cam, but the clearance in the valve train still has to be taken up before the valve opens, any excess clearance will cause much higher contact pressure when the valve does start opening. This is like landing on the up slope of our hill.

The problem is made worse by the increasing use of pure synthetic oils, their film strength is not sufficient to prevent penetration of the oil film, an amount metal is scoured from the face of the cam lobe with every operating cycle. The end result is large pits in the surface of the cam. Castor oil has a much higher film strength, using castor oil (or a castor blend) will decrease the rate of damage, but it will still happen over a period of time.
So, keep the valves set at 0.04 mm for best power and engine life.


Cylinder color and intake stacks:

The dark colors radiate heat better than lighter colors, the best for radiation is a flat black. Since a flat finish is difficult to maintain, and also has to be thicker than a gloss coat, I just use the shiny paint. Not a great difference between the matte and gloss finishes in radiation anyway.

The intake stacks help a lot, but not in power. I'm sure you've noticed the drop;lets of fuel shooting back out of the carb when the engine is running - the stack keeps them in the air flow of the carb, they get drawn back in, and used by the engine.

This gives two immediate benefits. One, the inside of your engine compartment doesn't get all that raw fuel sprayed around. And Two, you can generally lean the needles a bit, giving better fuel economy. As much as 15-20% longer flying time on the same amount of fuel. Really.

A few months ago we had a thread in Glow Engines about stacks, many posts told of people having the same result.

A third benefit, if you like, is being able to mount a Bru-Line air filter on the engine.

All my Saito engines in service have stacks with the air filters mounted.

Would you like a 20 minute flight from 14 ounces with a 120 engine? Truly, I don't know if I could make 20 minutes, but with 14 ounces my UltraStick has fuel left after 15.

< Message edited by blw -- 7/8/2007 4:16:23 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 6

RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:28:49 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
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More on intake stacks and air filters
The intake stack for your FA-82 is the same one that fits from the FA-56 up to the FA-100 - all the mid block engines use the same one. About $6 -$7 from Tower. And since they'll charge you the same freight whether it's one bit or several, order the Bru-Line fine mesh air filter at the same time. And a pack of extra filter elements.

And if you want to get "Saito Fancy" add the new Saito branded fuel filter. It's expensive, ($9.75) but it's really a show piece. A machined aluminum, base with a genuine glass bowl that removes for cleaning, and a fine mesh filter element. It even says "Saito" on the metal bas4 part. Just think of the bragging rights. I had to get one to examine when I first saw it. I like it.

Intake Stack: SAI50GK93 $6.75
F-1 Fuel Filter: SAI50109 $9.75

The Horizon web site crapped out while I was looking for the air filter, sorry. Total for the filter and the packet of spare elements is about $6, so it's well worth the expense.

Stacks again

In a manner of speaking, the stacks greatly increase the performance of the engine. In another way they do nothing. No power increase, but they contain the back spray of fuel, you can lean the needles a good bit, your total fuel rate (and expense of operation) goes down. Also, the inside of the engine cowl stays a lot cleaner by eliminating the spray out of the carb. For maximum benefit use a Bru-Line air filter also - that catches the last bit of fuel and keeps it in the air stream.


More on intake stacks

...Could there even be a "tuned length"?

Yes, there could indeed. But...

A tuned exhaust is pretty easy because we only have to worry about the pressure waves at the exhaust valve. With fuel injection again we only worry about the pressure waves at the intake valve.

With a carb another monkey pops up to bother us - the spray bar. Not only does the protrusion of the spray bar interfere with the wave travel, there are speeds at which the positive wave is going to be there when it's supposed to suck fuel, and instead it pushes the fuel back out and the engine goes lean.

In post #1560, Ernie M is asking if there is a specific length for (intake) velocity stacks. In yours and other's replies you are talking (exhaust) tuned pipes. Did I miss something here or is this a misunderstanding? I just got a velocity stack and o ring for my Saito 100 and was wandering what you might have to say about the length of the intake velocity stack?

Guess I didn't make it plain. With true fuel injection the intake can be tuned just as the exhaust can. But it's a fairly narrow rpm band, and unless you always keep the rpm close to that band the tuning often works against you. Reverse cones and expansion chambers don't work on the intake.

Then with a carb having all the bits sticking in the air flow it's just frustration.

Best just to ensure the air flow and use the stack and air filter to keep the inside of the cowl clean, one, and improve the fuel economy, two.


Sealing the intake stack

I never said anything in particular about the o-rings, only that the gap between the carb body and the stack had to be sealed for it to work properly.

I've always been leery of using an o-ring in such a place, my preference is to cut a length of tubing that's a snug fit in diameter and length to go there, and dab some RTV on the outside of it to complete the seal.

What I've been told about the o-rings is someone taking the carb (or complete engine) and the stack to their local hardware store and just picking out one to fit.

My aversion to an o-ring here is for two reasons. One, the tubing will give a much smoother surface inside, the o-ring is either going to have two grooves or a bulge into the air flow, or both. Further, if the o-ring is loose it might not seal well, and it could work its way out of position and go into the carb. If it's clamped tightly, as the oil in the fuel works its way around the o-ring it might get squeezed out and get into the carb. I doubt it would hurt anything mechanically, but it could jam in the throttle barrel and be a fault that was very hard to find. Worse case would be causing a dead stick and still be a bear to find.

Of course you could find an o-ring that was a perfect fit, just lightly clamped, and it would work perfectly.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:28:31 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 7

RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:29:54 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline
Sealing the intake stack – tubing

You will select a tubing diameter that will fit into the recess where the Teflon seal was fitted for the choke plate, and cut it to length to be a snug fit between the carb body and the flange of the stack. The picture is an old FA-80, the white ring is the Teflon seal. Its outer diameter will be 11 mm or 7/16" depending on which rack you visit.

And a small o-ring around the outside of the tube would probably make it as good as you can get. I'll try the outside o-ring on my next one.

Even more on intake stacks, fuel selection, and mess on the plane.

All that oil on the airplane? Two things to start. First, while 20% oil is in “The Book,” 17-18% is more than enough. In fact, the nature of a four stroke engine is such that once the oil level is established in the crank case going down to 10% would probably be OK. I am not recommending you try it, might be expensive. Just as an example of low oil, Technopower says use a MAXIMUM of 5% oil after break in.

The second thing. Does your engine have an intake stack? A lot of the oil could be back spray from the carb, the stack will decrease this, if used with a Bru-Line fine mesh air filter it will be eliminated. Trapping the fuel that is otherwise lost will also increase your flight time on a given amount of fuel.

Now. Is the YS 20/20 fuel “Better” than Omega 15%? Up to you. You will get a small increase in power with the 20% nitro, at the same time you’ll also get an increase in the oil on the plane along with higher fuel consumption. To me the extra power is not enough to justify the higher price, less mess and better fuel economy are the frosting on the cake.


Diagnostics and tuning

If the compression is good and the bearings aren't noisy, don't take the engine apart.

If the compression is good and the bearings are noisy then don't pull the piston out of the cylinder when you take the cylinder off the case.

Bad compression and noisy bearings, then you have permission for a complete tear down.

Seeing the picture of your FA-120, it really can't be that old. It has not only the AAC cylinder, it also has the high tappet guides and the late type cast muffler just barely shows. I doubt it could be more than five years old, or around that at most.

It would not surprise me, if you showed the right side of the crank case above the mounting lug, to see "120S" in gold letters on a black background.

It's possible you're misjudging the engine. Remember the FA-120 is the runt of the litter when you get into the big blocks, it's the smallest of all, it's bigger siblings now go all the way to the FA-220, and even the FA-180 is not much bigger than the 120. So you might just be expecting more than it has to give.

Fuel burn: I see you have the intake stack on your engine. Adjusted properly you should get at least 13 minutes on a 16 ounce tank, and that's assuming full throttle the whole time. With "Average" power settings 16 ounces will give 20 minute flights. Truly, it's all in the carb adjustment.

Don't fret about the leakage from the push rod tube, you probably won't see any when you get the engine dialed in. I would suggest a close inspection of the carb and intake pipe, check carefully for any leakage there. Set the valves, my recommendation is set them both to 0.002" to get the best performance.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 4:24:10 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 8

RE: The Complete Saito Notes by Bill Robison - 5/12/2007 3:31:48 AM   
blw



Posts: 4321
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline
Tuning with Tach and AR Oil

What a tach does for tuning a four stroke is force you to wait for the engine's reaction. If you go slow, give the engine time to respond to a needle change, your ear works fine. The engine will usually be five to seven seconds behind you, learn to wait for it. Remember this is for a tuning change, not throttle response.

My oil of choice for pre-lube and after run is ATF Dexron. Costs a buck a quart instead of $4 for two ounces in a bottle that says "After Run Oil" on it. And I can't tell any real difference.


HS needle adjustment

Classic symptom of the HS being too lean. No, don't scoff, just turn the HS needle out five full turns and restart the engine. Don't bother the LS for the moment. Open the throttle to full. Unless you have a feed problem the engine should accept full throttle and continue running. VERY SLOWLY lean the HS until you get to peak rpm, and remember that you will always be about five seconds ahead of the engine - meaning the engine will run about five seconds before you get any response from a needle change. That's why you have to go slowly in the adjustment, this lag is the cause for many people getting a four stroke engine too lean.

ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
Why the 5 sec. or so lag time on a 4-stroke when changing the HS needle setting?


The best explanation I can offer for the delay is the length of the intake pipe. The engine will draw a quantity of air/fuel mixture through the carb and intake pipe, then push an amount back into the pipe before the valve closes. So if you are running rich at a 6:1 ratio and want to go to 7:1 mixture, it takes a while for all the trapped fuel/air volume to change. If you turn the needle too rapidly you'll find you have gone suddenly from 7:1 and reached 9:1 (lean) with no in between time to let the engine tell you it was at an 8:1 f/a ratio.

I've noticed the engines with stacks installed are a little slower yet in their response, further confirming the greater volume of the intake tract.

Pinch test method

The pinch test is valid for getting close to the correct IDLE mixture, but doesn’t work well for the HS setting.

At idle a pinch of the fuel hose will give a slight rpm rise before the engine falls off (if the mixture is correct). The final adjustment has to be done by checking how the engine comes off idle when the throttle is opened.

The HS needle must be adjusted with the throttle full open, slowly leaned until peak rpm is reached and then opened to get 300-500 rpm drop.

With experience and a lot of patience you can adjust both the HS and LS needles without a tachometer, but the delay in response of the engine makes it hard for many. So long as you take your time, waiting 10 seconds or so between adjustments, and make them just a little at a time, the engine can be tuned by ear.

The HS needle has no effect at idle if it is open far enough to run at full throttle, and almost no effect until you get ¾ open throttle. Since the LS has such an effect you have to go back and forth between the LS and HS adjustments to get everything right.

< Message edited by w8ye -- 5/20/2007 3:43:15 PM >


_____________________________

The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to blw)
       Post #: 9