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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 5/8/2008 12:58 AM   
blitzkrieg65



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quote:

ORIGINAL: samarkh

Hi Blitz,
Yup your correct, the RX-14 is a rare animal. I've only got one and have yet to reverse engineer it. I've had a few personal issues at this end including a trip to hospital, along with a very dead PC haven't been able to concentrate much else. I hope to be in better shape next week so will restart in earnest

Yours Simon M.


Bummer Simon I hope things turn around for you! Having PC issues is stressful enough without health concerns! Look forward to your analysis!

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/2/2008 3:48 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Here's an update on testing done over the weekend.

(The 3 tests below are a recap of April's testing)

Stock 3-1 Gearbox
Black Capped Suntech motors
Tiger Sprocket
.56 Amps
4.0 Watts
7.23 Volts
202 RPMs

Same as above with White Capped Suntechs
.18 Amps
7.5 Volts
1.2 Watts
105 RPMs

Low Profile Stug Gearbox
Black Capped 360 Suntechs
Tiger Sprocket
.24 Amps
7.42 Volts
1.5 Watts
240 RPMs

Yesterday the new 3-1 gearboxes were put back together with the run-in Jamara 480 Pro HS motors.

At first the Watts Up Meter was getting readings of .13 Amps until realizing I put the leads on the source for both motors (juction block) and not on teh motors themselves. The low mount motor did see .11-.23 Amps current draw when low on grease for lubrication though!

This last test was done after letting the motors run for about 45 minutes and massive dose of white lithium grease poured over both gearboxes. Motors were pretty warm to the touch, much warmer then the 380s would be after hours and hours of use. Might put a big 80mm fan on them.

Jamara 480 Pro HS (both turning at same time)
.35 Amps
7.41 Volts
2.5 Watts
268 RPMs (Tiger I Sprocket)

This combination should work awesome for anyone running one of those laser battle systems. The Torque is incredible! The El Mod electronics runs the motor voltage at 5.5V, so this should be a really safe power option providing plenty of stump pulling power!

What do you guys think?


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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/2/2008 10:05 PM   
samarkh


 

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Status: offline 		Interesting results, how did you measure the RPM?

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/2/2008 10:35 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		With one of these: Digital Photo Tachometer

Comes with reflective tape that I glue a strip on Tiger's sprocket.

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/3/2008 2:30 AM   
blitzkrieg65



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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

With one of these: Digital Photo Tachometer

Comes with reflective tape that I glue a strip on Tiger's sprocket.


I think this is some dam good testing, dare I say engineering data! That is great news for those who are running EL MOD inside!

Who's 3 -1 are you using, Impacts TU or others???

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/3/2008 2:43 AM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Asiatam's. Also have the Stug gearbox, that is for another project.

You know, I've been calling them 3-1s, is correct terminology 4-1s instead? Don't know what the ratio is.

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/3/2008 9:17 AM   
samarkh


 

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quote:

With one of these: Digital Photo Tachometer


There good for the cost. I'm designing a small motor dynamometer to get more meaningful torque measurements, but with a load of other stuff using up my time, and sorting out my Dads funeral, don't expect it to happen to soon!

Yours Simon M.

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/3/2008 4:38 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Sorry to hear about your Dad. Don't rush the dyno, it's just a hobby for most of us!

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/19/2008 10:34 PM   
jakeand



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Hi Swath,

quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Asiatam's. Also have the Stug gearbox, that is for another project.

You know, I've been calling them 3-1s, is correct terminology 4-1s instead? Don't know what the ratio is.


Those are HL standard 40:1 gearboxes with a 3:1 reduction so total ratio is 120:1.

Testing this setup at the moment..


Regards

Jake

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 6/19/2008 10:39 PM   
jakeand



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quote:

ORIGINAL: samarkh

quote:

With one of these: Digital Photo Tachometer


There good for the cost. I'm designing a small motor dynamometer to get more meaningful torque measurements, but with a load of other stuff using up my time, and sorting out my Dads funeral, don't expect it to happen to soon!

Yours Simon M.



Hi Simon,

Take your time, lost my parents couple of years ago, so I know what you are going thru.

Take care

Jake

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 11/4/2008 2:42 AM   
blitzkrieg65



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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/14/2008 11:47 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		The sick thread. For some reason everytime I get sick I start thinking about gearboxes!

Today I calculated gearbox ratios then speed given a certain motor RPM and Sprocket Size using a 10-tooth pinion.

Pinion 10 4.5
Gear1 45 15 3.53
Gear2 53 15 3.53
Gear3 53 40 0.7
Output 28
39.326

Standard HL gearbox = 39.326

Pinion 10 3.4
Gear1 34 15 3
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
89.139

Asiatam gearbox with the 34-tooth 4th gear = 89.139

Pinion 10 4.5
Gear1 45 15 3
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
117.978

Perry and Mailed Fist's conversion using a 4th stock HL gear, the 45 tooth gear = 117.978

Pinion 23 1.826
Gear1 42 18 2.5
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
39.896

YHRs 4th gear conversion using the Losi and Cox parts = 39.896
I think the 23-tooth pinion cancelled out the 42/23 gear he used.


Next is list of known motors listing the no load rpm that I personally tested and most efficient rpm under load:

White capped Suntechs 11079 and 9600 rpms
Black capped Suntechs 16200 and 14090 rpms
Graupner Speed400s 18500 and 15400 rpms
Jamara 380 HS Pro 22000 and 18500 rpms

Below is the diameter of the sprockets in mm and inches from tooth to tooth

Tiger/Panther - 55mm or 2.165"
Pershing/BullDog - 43mm or 1.693"
PZIII - 53mm or 2.086"

A real sherman's sprocket scaled down to 1/16 would be 42.81mm but I don't have a Tamiya Sherman laying around to check. My PZIV is in the box, not sure of its diameter at this time.

Scale Speeds for listed types are shown below:

M26 Pershing - 40kmh - 25mph - 1.56mph
Tiger I - 38kmh - 24mph - 1.5mph
M41A3 - 72kmh - 45mph - 2.81mph
Panther - 55kmh - 34.18 - 2.14mph
Panzer III - 40kmh - 24.85mph - 1.55mph
T34/85 - 55kmh - 34.18 - 2.14mph
Panzer IVG - 42kmh - 26.1mph - 1.63mph
M18 - 55mph - 3.44mph
M4 - 34kmh - 21mph - 1.31mph


Having said that here's some calculations I came up with:

Stock HL Gearbox with 9600rpm motor would run:
1.57mph in Tiger/Panther
1.23mph with Pershing/Walker
1.51mph with PZIII

Changing to an 8-tooth pinion:
1.26mph
.98mph
1.21mph respectively

My BullDog using Speed400s should run about 1.97mph if the motor is turning 15,400rpms. I guess the next thing to do is charge up the BullDog and measure off 20 feet and get a stopwatch!

Well, I made a cool spreadsheet that you can change parameters around and do "what ifs" with. Send me an e-mail if you would like a copy.

If there are any other gearbox combinations that we should list, let me know or feel free to post. If I made a math error, likely because I'm sick, let me know too!

Thanks to Jose for helping out today too!

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:21 AM   
fsciorelli


 

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Status: offline 		swathdiver and everyone else,

This latest post on gearsets and motors is very timely for me. I was in the process of trueing up my the gearboxes on my HL PZKW III when I found that that the sheet metal bracket on one one of the gearboxes was bent incorrectly, causing the the gearshafts to run at an angle to the correct orientation, resulting in significant resistance. I have the diecast metal gear sets in my PZKW III, but to try to straighten and rebend the bracket might not be worth my time. I am interested in keep a scale speed, so it would appear I should stick with the HL ratios with 3 gears. I've been looking at what rccomand offers and the steel gearsets for ($37) look to me to be the most promising. Can anyone provide a recommendation? Thanks

Oh one more thing. All the motor talk is Greek to me. What is the motor that comes with the HL PZKW III?

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:58 AM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Many of the gearboxes are bent. When you take them apart, just hammer and bend it back into shape, it'll be fine. Most tanks these days come with the white capped suntechs which offer more torque and turn lower rpms. Don't have experience with the new steel gears, the standard metal gears as long as they are round and turn true have done good by me.

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 3:27 AM   
bubbajoexx



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Status: offline 		look closely at the gearboxes as they come with em 400 motors

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 3:49 AM   
Perry S.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

The sick thread. For some reason everytime I get sick I start thinking about gearboxes!

Today I calculated gearbox ratios then speed given a certain motor RPM and Sprocket Size using a 10-tooth pinion.

Pinion 10 4.5
Gear1 45 15 3.53
Gear2 53 15 3.53
Gear3 53 40 0.7
Output 28
39.326

Standard HL gearbox = 39.326

Pinion 10 3.4
Gear1 34 15 3
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
89.139

Asiatam gearbox with the 34-tooth 4th gear = 89.139

Pinion 10 4.5
Gear1 45 15 3
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
117.978

Perry and Mailed Fist's conversion using a 4th stock HL gear, the 45 tooth gear = 117.978

Pinion 23 1.826
Gear1 42 18 2.5
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
39.896

YHRs 4th gear conversion using the Losi and Cox parts = 39.896
I think the 23-tooth pinion cancelled out the 42/23 gear he used.


Next is list of known motors listing the no load rpm that I personally tested and most efficient rpm under load:

White capped Suntechs 11079 and 9600 rpms
Black capped Suntechs 16200 and 14090 rpms
Graupner Speed400s 18500 and 15400 rpms
Jamara 380 HS Pro 22000 and 18500 rpms

Below is the diameter of the sprockets in mm and inches from tooth to tooth

Tiger/Panther - 55mm or 2.165"
Pershing/BullDog - 43mm or 1.693"
PZIII - 53mm or 2.086"

A real sherman's sprocket scaled down to 1/16 would be 42.81mm but I don't have a Tamiya Sherman laying around to check. My PZIV is in the box, not sure of its diameter at this time.

Scale Speeds for listed types are shown below:

M26 Pershing - 40kmh - 25mph - 1.56mph
Tiger I - 38kmh - 24mph - 1.5mph
M41A3 - 72kmh - 45mph - 2.81mph
Panther - 55kmh - 34.18 - 2.14mph
Panzer III - 40kmh - 24.85mph - 1.55mph
T34/85 - 55kmh - 34.18 - 2.14mph
Panzer IVG - 42kmh - 26.1mph - 1.63mph
M18 - 55mph - 3.44mph
M4 - 34kmh - 21mph - 1.31mph


Having said that here's some calculations I came up with:

Stock HL Gearbox with 9600rpm motor would run:
1.57mph in Tiger/Panther
1.23mph with Pershing/Walker
1.51mph with PZIII

Changing to an 8-tooth pinion:
1.26mph
.98mph
1.21mph respectively

My BullDog using Speed400s should run about 1.97mph if the motor is turning 15,400rpms. I guess the next thing to do is charge up the BullDog and measure off 20 feet and get a stopwatch!

Well, I made a cool spreadsheet that you can change parameters around and do "what ifs" with. Send me an e-mail if you would like a copy.

If there are any other gearbox combinations that we should list, let me know or feel free to post. If I made a math error, likely because I'm sick, let me know too!

Thanks to Jose for helping out today too!



This is funny. Are you doing your doctoral thesis?

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 9:52 AM   
philipat


 

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Status: offline 		I got a set of the steel gearboxes from RC Command. But, they were shipped to my brother's (two hours away); so, I won't be able to get to them until next week when I go up there for Christmas. Bill told me that they looked pretty good and that they carried the same gearing as the standard HL. In fact, near as I can tell, the plastic, diecast metal and steel gears all have the same gearing. I'm just hoping that the steel gears were milled versus diecast. If so, hopefully, they'll run truer "out of the box". Still gotta check 'em, though.

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 10:42 AM   
jakeand



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quote:

ORIGINAL: swathdiver

Pinion 10 3.4
Gear1 34 15 3
Gear2 45 15 3.533
Gear3 53 15 3.533
Gear4 53 40 0.7
Output 28
89.139

Asiatam gearbox with the 34-tooth 4th gear = 89.139



Is this 3:1 or "Stug" gearbox?

BTW, nice work God summary of this thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perry S.

This is funny. Are you doing your doctoral thesis?



Gearboxes are addictive......like tanks, you can not just have one.....

Best regards

Jake

P.S Swathdiver, will PM you for the spreadsheet



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< Message edited by jakeand -- 12/15/2008 10:45 AM >

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 1:26 PM   
swathdiver



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ORIGINAL: Perry S.

This is funny. Are you doing your doctoral thesis?


Just the ramblings of a crazy man! You been playing with tanks or musclecars lately?


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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 1:55 PM   
semseyp



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Status: offline 		Hi!

I'm now testing my Tiger with El-mod and 3:1 gearing powered by Jamara 480 Pro HS BB motors.

It works fine, but the El-mod cooling flange is slightly hot after 10 minutes playing, so I need a bigger cooling flange.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7583812430298124665



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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:00 PM   
fsciorelli


 

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Status: offline 		Regarding my PZKW III gearboxes, the problem is not that the bracket mounts are bent at the wrong angle. That would be easy to fix. The problem is that the 90 deg bend is in the wrong location relative to the bushing/shaft holes (to far, to close, I don't recall recal right now) To fix it I figure I would have to bend the bracket straight again and make a new bend in the correct location. Do you still think its worth trying to fix?

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stock S&S HL PZKW III Ausf L, Stug III, KV-1 Ekranami

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:08 PM   
swathdiver



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Status: offline 		Mine got warm too when I was testing. Then I hooked up the Afterburner and none of the heatsinks were warm anymore. The motors got hot, and the hottest part of all was the Blaster's heatsink. Did you see my Tiger 211 build and youtube videos of it running? Ohh, the Mrs. isn't going to like those marks you left on the wall!


fsciorelli: How about some pictures when you get a chance?



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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:24 PM   
miniz33


 

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Status: offline 		Hey folks, I've been looking for a new and more powerful motor for my HL pershing; would a speed400 long can increase speed and/or torque in my tank?

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:24 PM   
fsciorelli


 

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Status: offline 		Swathdiver,

I'll take some photos as soon as I can, but it may not be till next weekend. Don't forget about me though.

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stock S&S HL PZKW III Ausf L, Stug III, KV-1 Ekranami

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RE: Motor and Gearbox Testing - 12/15/2008 2:26 PM   
swathdiver



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quote:

ORIGINAL: miniz33

Hey folks, I've been looking for a new and more powerful motor for my HL pershing; would a speed400 long can increase speed and/or torque in my tank?


Nope, it'll blow your board sky high, too many amps. Stick with standard Speed400 and a cooling fan.

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