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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pylon Universe - RC Pylon Racing >> General Racing Discussion >> Rules of the field during non-race weekends
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Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 1:13:51 AM   
Rare Bear Mech



Posts: 111
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Ok I have a little issue at our club that involves pylon racing during non-race weekends. We do both T-34 and a few scale warbird races each year at our club. Not into the T-34 but I am all about the warbird races as are many of the other club members. My issue is this... At other clubs what is the rules about people practicing during non-race weekends. Like I said before I am not anti-pylon. Being that I build full sized pylon racing aircraft that would just be silly. We have now had more than a few near hits between students, sport flyers vs. guy doing hot laps on the pylon course. Is this allowed at other AMA clubs? Is it a written rule or spoken rule? How far should he fly from the edge of the runway? It is only one or two guys, but it has caused enough issuses that a fight almost broke out today. I had a student on a buddy cord flying a fixed pattern, and so did another instructor in the box next to me. He had just gone up, I was about to come in. I got the aircraft from the student and called landing. About then with no call out a guy with a Dago Red p-51 rips out on the flight line and takes off. I call landing from the right once more. Just as the aircraft is about 50 ft off the end of the runway the mustang come from the left at eye level towards my students airplane. I keep my cool and get it on the ground.
Now this is where it gets good! I walked over to the guy and very nicely ASKED "Please don't do hot laps when we have students out on the cord". He just gets an attitude and barks back " If I was doing hot laps you would know it". At this point I don't even waste my steam on the guy. I just turned around and started walking back to my pit. The only issue is that my student (A very large black man from Oakland and one of my dearest friends) didn't see it the same way I did. He was pretty pissed that his brand new Alpha 60 almost got stuffed after 3 flights because of this jackass. Long story short this skinny kid about gets the beating of a lifetime because he just starts running his mouth about how he has the right to do what ever he wants. I think it just takes a tand... not much common sense to not be doing hot laps on the pylon course with two students learning to fly for the first time. What do you other pylon junkies think.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 1:54:31 AM   
aussiesteve


 

Posts: 1070
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: TEDA (Tianjin)Tianjin, CHINA
Status: offline 		Sounds to me like the issue is not so much about the pylon course but the Dago Red guys lack of manners in not calling that he was coming out or doing a pass through the landing area.
I'd say he would probably have deserved the beating - something his Momma probably should have given him a long time ago by the sounds of it.

We have an unwritten rule that if people want to practice their pylon etc, they do so when it suits others - we are lucky though that the pylons can be moved to an area well away from the runway. Either way, it is a manners issue and we insist on everybody following the normal practice of calling when they are coming out, landing or doing passes near to the runway.

We also have a rule that when a student who is still on the buddy box is flying, we give them as much airspace as possible so that they can get off the box and progress as quickly as possible. This is good for all concerned - there's nothing worse than being involved in an incident which could easily have been avoided had the inexperienced pilot been more experience or had manners been used.

I was involved in an incident a couple of years ago when I had a 60 size 3d'er set up to land and a 2m aerobat flew through the middle of me right near the end of the runway. It was a no blame situation because we had both called but not heard each other (We were at opposite ends of the flight line). We laughed about it after even though both planes were severely damaged - it did look kind of spectacular though.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 2:26:45 AM   
Trollmaster



Posts: 375
Joined: 4/16/2007
From: USA, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think I could reply without being offensive but I'll say this on students. I see way too many instructors letting students just fly al lover the damn place with no resemblance of a standard flight pattern at all. With that being said, if the students get nailed due to this, then so what. Our field has the combinations you mentioned above done routinely because we enforce a traffic pattern

< Message edited by Trollmaster -- 5/21/2007 2:29:12 AM >

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 2:34:52 AM   
aussiesteve


 

Posts: 1070
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: TEDA (Tianjin)Tianjin, CHINA
Status: offline 		Yep
100% agreement on that one.
We reinforce traffic patterns to all fliers and instill that immediately into all our students.
When the students first start to fly, we fly them away from the traffic area until they have learnt the basics of control (usually only their first few flights). The layout of our field allows us to do that with our backs to the sun on all but a few days of the year. We also try to fly them when there are few if any others flying - especially during the early days of their learning.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 3:59:44 AM   
Oldbob


 

Posts: 158
Joined: 6/29/2005
From: georgetown, TX, USA
Status: offline 		There must be something in your drinking water that makes some of your club members so stupid. Here in Texas USA, where the water is good for you, we always give a student on a cord the right-of –way. If one of us wants to do Hot Laps we walk the line and ask everyone if it’s OK. We never get any objection and everyone else will not fly for the four or five minutes it takes to show off our speed. Others would rather watch then being run over by some idiot that fails to communicate.

Bob (Fly Friendly)

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 4:07:05 AM   
aussiesteve


 

Posts: 1070
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: TEDA (Tianjin)Tianjin, CHINA
Status: offline 		???
I didn't think taking caution was stupid.
Based on the information in the original post, it would appear that the whole issue was caused by someone not doing what you suggested.

BTW - The mid-air I was referring to in my post happened in - TEXAS USA.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 4:12:04 AM   
DavidAgar



Posts: 2823
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Battle Ground, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Most clubs have an established flight pattern for all flying. At our club the experianced flyers always let the students have the field to them selves so as to avoid issue's like the one that has been mentioned. I am an instructor and while I do teach my students to fly a pattern, in the early stages of learning a student can and will go all over the sky. I always work with a student to get them back in the pattern and I really appriciate the fact that there are no other planes in the air to worry about. Once the student has landed all other flying resumes. It is just a field courtesy, as we were all new flyers at one time or another. Good Luck, Dave


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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 4:38:15 AM   
Rare Bear Mech



Posts: 111
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks guys for the info. Like I said in my post my student was in a fixed patten. I have five pilot ratings so trust me I am very strict with student on devloping this habit. I will even make them call right traffic or left traffic depending on the direction of pattern rotation. Also have them call a 45 when changing rotation of the pattern.

< Message edited by Rare Bear Mech -- 5/21/2007 4:43:13 AM >

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 5:27:28 AM   
gunfighter


 

Posts: 629
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: Canyon Lake, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Ausiesteve - Just because you were IN Texas does not mean you are FROM Texas!

We have more manners than to do "hot laps" or low passes down the runway when others are in the air - ESPECIALLY A BEGINNER!

That kind of flying is not tolerated at any of the fields I fly at and would be grounds for a severe dressing down!


We routinely fly practice laps at several fields, and like Antique Opa said, the other pilots usually stay down when we fly. We don't take advantage of them and only fly laps during a "lull" in the action.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 6:05:28 AM   
aussiesteve


 

Posts: 1070
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: TEDA (Tianjin)Tianjin, CHINA
Status: offline 		And thank the lord for that
Seriously though. My original post was along the same lines as everybody elses thoughts - Give the students the chance to learn to fly safely without scaring them. Todays student is potentially tomorrows champion pilot or instructor etc. the whole issue appears to be by somone who didn't have the manners to allow the student some room and also it seems that didn't follow the standard protocol of calling his intentions. It seems to me that most of the replies to the original post are in agreement
Let the guys do hot laps away from the students, let the students learn without the concern of mid-airs and Always call your intentions when near the runway.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 2:05:07 PM   
vicman



Posts: 6183
Joined: 12/8/2002
From: Valdese, NC, USA
Status: offline 		It goes both ways. I have called dead stick loud enough for the guys in the shed to hear but not the guy putt putting a 1.20 rascal or some huge slow thing like that. Only to have him do a touch an go at the same time I am landing my Predator. I didn't bother him the whole time he was in the air but he sure got me hot when I didn't/couldn't see my plane land. It took great self control not to do a channel check the next time he was up on my same channel.
There is more to the story. The point is courtesey is the best rule to follow. The next one is to man-up when you screw-up and say sorry.


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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 2:42:30 PM   
Rare Bear Mech



Posts: 111
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vicman
The point is courtesey is the best rule to follow. The next one is to man-up when you screw-up and say sorry.


Yeah I think that's what got us so heated. The guy just kept saying "whatever" and never even acknowledged thet he was doing something wrong. I am not perfect if I come wide out of a turn and go over my personal deadline (runway edge) I will call out a big "sorry everybody".

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/21/2007 3:14:56 PM   
fizzwater2


 

Posts: 797
Joined: 8/16/2004
From: Paola, KS, USA
Status: offline 		our club has a "trainer night" where the instructors come out to help new flyers, and other folks can fly, but they're encouraged to respect the new flyers. We also then have a "pylon night" where the poles can be set up for practice, and the new guys would have to wait on the pylon flyers.. it seems to work pretty well.

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/22/2007 6:38:07 PM   
Rare Bear Mech



Posts: 111
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline 		UPDATE. Just because it was so damn funny when I heard it. Dude called the club pres to complain... About the how our cussing him out offended him That guys kid has a fouler mouth. I hope you find this forum ya dirtbag, and get a clue. Maybe I will just copy this whole thing, and pin up on the TX impound. Maybe because I work around full sized aircraft that I have grown to respect it and the 800 mph machette it swings. I am glad I have become a instructor because at least I can do something to teach good habits instead of just piss and moan about it. I am learning in the past few days that alot of new club members are self taught. Well no wonder these guys have such bad habits. I am a young guy too. I just feel embarrassed for my generation some times. Maybe it is just Reno but a ton of the young guys here just have no respect for anything... Not even their own safety. I am talking guys in their 30s that should know better acting like a 20 year old frat boy who thinks that kind of stuff only happens to other pilots. So I really know they have no respect for anybody elses safty. Next club meeting will be interesting for sure. Again thanks for giving some insite into how other clubs handle these things.

< Message edited by daven -- 5/22/2007 10:15:45 PM >

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RE: Rules of the field during non-race weekends - 5/22/2007 7:27:25 PM   
vicman



Posts: 6183
Joined: 12/8/2002
From: Valdese, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Funny, The guy I was mentioning called the prez too. He was new to the club and got schooled quickly that I am not known to fit the description given. Fortunately for me one of the older guys cooled me down to keep my less than desireable personality traits from being exposed. Lucky me has not seen him again either.


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