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Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/1/2003 2:03:30 AM   
mwright


 

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: King, NC, USA
Status: offline 		A while back I posted a question to see if anyone had made any progress with bio diesel. I work in a Chemistry Department and have done my fair share of organic synthesis so I had no excuses and I just decided to make some. After much, much reading I made a batch of bio diesel.

Here is the short version of what I did: (Two stage method: see http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html )

Stage #1
500 mL Soybean Oil (Plain Crisco Vetable Oil, can use waste oil with some pre-treatment)
125 mL MeOH/1.8 g NaOH
Heat/Stir/1hr@55C
Cool/separate glycerine from FAME (Fatty Acid Methly Ester)

Stage #2
First run FAME
125 mL MeOH/1.8 g NaOH
Heat/Stir/1hr@55C
Cool/separate glycerine from FAME

Wash FAME
3 x 150 mL Saturated NH4Cl
3 x 150 mL Saturated NaCl
3 x 150 mL water
Note: Forms a terrible emulsion when washed, requires time to separate.

Dry FAME
Heat to 130 C for 1 hr

So now I have 400 mL of this stuff, light gold in color (density 0.8597 g/mL and no glycerine by GC-MS).

I am waiting on a Head conversion for an OS 40 FP to test. I found several blends of bio diesel with various oils. I even saw where one person ( http://www.veggievan.org/biodiesel/plane.html ) used 5% chain saw oil!! I suppose I'll start with castor and see if I can really get away with not using ether as some have reported. A person could spend a lot of time just testing their fuel!!!!! I'm open to suggestion for testing.

Marcus

I'll let you guys know

< Message edited by mwright -- Feb 28 2003 10:14PM >
       Post #: 1

Re: Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/10/2003 7:28:35 PM   
coomarlin



Posts: 1001
Joined: 10/2/2002
From: Morgantown, WV, USA
Status: offline 		LOL. You're a hardcore modeler Keep us posted on your results.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mwright
A while back I posted a question to see if anyone had made any progress with bio diesel. I work in a Chemistry Department and have done my fair share of organic synthesis so I had no excuses and I just decided to make some. After much, much reading I made a batch of bio diesel.

Here is the short version of what I did: (Two stage method: see http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleks.html )

Stage #1
500 mL Soybean Oil (Plain Crisco Vetable Oil, can use waste oil with some pre-treatment)
125 mL MeOH/1.8 g NaOH
Heat/Stir/1hr@55C
Cool/separate glycerine from FAME (Fatty Acid Methly Ester)

Stage #2
First run FAME
125 mL MeOH/1.8 g NaOH
Heat/Stir/1hr@55C
Cool/separate glycerine from FAME

Wash FAME
3 x 150 mL Saturated NH4Cl
3 x 150 mL Saturated NaCl
3 x 150 mL water
Note: Forms a terrible emulsion when washed, requires time to separate.

Dry FAME
Heat to 130 C for 1 hr

So now I have 400 mL of this stuff, light gold in color (density 0.8597 g/mL and no glycerine by GC-MS).

I am waiting on a Head conversion for an OS 40 FP to test. I found several blends of bio diesel with various oils. I even saw where one person ( http://www.veggievan.org/biodiesel/plane.html ) used 5% chain saw oil!! I suppose I'll start with castor and see if I can really get away with not using ether as some have reported. A person could spend a lot of time just testing their fuel!!!!! I'm open to suggestion for testing.

Marcus

I'll let you guys know [/QUOTE]

_____________________________

Windy Ridge RC Club

(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 2

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/11/2003 7:01:18 AM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		Bio diesel was originally intended for true diesel engines and our engines aren't true diesels so I think it's more like a replacement for the kero that's normally used. But I seem to remember someone trying it and it worked so long as the engine was first started on normal (ether) fuel and then switched over to the bio diesel once the engine had warmed up. Sort of like the old spark ignition tractor engines had to be started on gasoline and then could be switched over to run on kero (in the days when kero was far cheaper than gas).

(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 3

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/11/2003 7:33:19 PM   
mwright


 

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: King, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The more I read on this topic (still waiting on my conversion head!!!!) I too see this stuff as a replacement for the kero. Which is not too exciting. I suppose my motivation with using this stuff is just one of exploration. I would like to definitivly lay this stuff aside as a myth or verify it's usefulness. Best case scenario is it requires less ether and oil. And maybe still use silicon tubing. Its kind of fun just tinkering and seeing what works.

(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 4

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/12/2003 12:40:35 AM   
Rudeboy



Posts: 3243
Joined: 12/9/2002
From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by mwright
Its kind of fun just tinkering and seeing what works. [/QUOTE]


It's half of the fun...

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       Post #: 5

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 3/12/2003 7:43:18 AM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		Keep experimenting and even if it doesn't work satisfactorily then at least you'll be an acknowledged expert on it

Maybe it's got a higher heat content than kero so the engine will be more powerful. Maybe it runs at a leaner air/fuel ratio so it's more economical. Maybe it aids lubrication so you can cut down on the amount of normal oil. Who knows? Like Rudeboy says, half the fun with this hobby is trying something different and not just blindly doing what everyone else does

(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 6

mwright, would you like to try a diesel conversion head? - 3/13/2003 8:45:56 AM   
rmteo1


 

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/12/2002
From: Longmont, CO,
Status: offline 		If you would like to try a diesel conversion head, I make one that will fit most .46 size glo engines from OS, Tower, Mecoa etc. You can try it for FREE. If you are interested, please call or e-mail me. See attached pic.

http://home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_wsn/page3.html

TS ENGINEERING INC.
1329 Sherman Drive
Longmont, CO 80501
(720) 652-9140
[email]rmteo@earthlink.net[/email]

Attachments
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(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 7

it runs - 3/31/2003 7:56:32 PM   
mwright


 

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: King, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Brief update. I got my Davis conversion for an OS 40FP. Very nice product. I mixed a batch of conventional diesel (20% castor, 30% ether, 2% amyl nitrate, 48% kero). Got it running after following Davis' directions (9200 with an 11x6 APC). It behaved just as he had said in the directions.

Next, I made a biodiesel blend that I suspected would work (10% castor, 30% ether, 2% amyl nitrate, 58% FAME). Had to open up the high speed needle 1 turn at same compression setting (9400 with the 11x6 APC). I'll have some more numbers but I'll wait to see how consistent they are. Just by ear, the biodiesel turns up better. We had some cold weather here (35 to 40 deg F) but it still fired right up and ran well enough to fly a plane. I would have continued but one of fingers was grazed by the prop!!!! Looks like bad "road rash". I used to complain about remote needle valves until last night. Oh yea, it does smell like french firies, much much better than the kero based stuff (exhaust burns my eyes).

I'm going to "learn" how the little 40FP responds to needle/compression changes then start decreasing the % ether. It will be interesting to see how the oil and ether %'s pan out. I trying to not make any assumptions and let the motor tell me what it likes. Please remember I'm just having fun in the back yard and telling you about it.

Marcus

(in reply to mwright)
       Post #: 8

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 4/1/2003 8:52:34 PM   
Diesel Dave-RCU


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 12/22/2002
From: Monroe, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Marcus,

A few questions. First, I have been flying with os, and Davis heads on all my stuff for about 7 years. I have 5 engines converted, two of which are, well were in a ov-10, before that horrible day, but that is another discussion.

I don't make my own fuels, I just op for either, Kero, or lamp oil, and the Davis fuel mix. I just recently started to use his pre mixed fuels, for simplicity.

Ok, here we go. Your rpm numbers for the conventional fuel mix seems to be a little low. Just how broke in is this motor you are using? I see you mixed your own additive. (the ether, and oils). Is this Davis's recipe, or your own? just for comparison, my FP-40 will turn an 11x7 APC at around 9800 rpm static. And that is running on kero, and Davis supplied mix. The head screw is about 1 1/4 turn out, and the same on the needle. The engine did suffer a flaked cylinder wall 2 years ago. The piston and sleeve were replaced with a Tower hobbies ABC 40 piston sleeve set (NEW). understand both engines are identical, except the sleeve in the Tower is chrome plated, and the OS is nickle plated. all the parts are interchangeable. BTW, the new piston, sleeve, were never broke in on glow, they started their service as a diesel. As time goes on, I expect this engine to go over 10,000 rpm, as it breaks in.

When you ran the FAME, I see you dropped the Castor content, WHY??? Don't take it wrong, but you are giving me the impression that you are playing both sides of the fence, so to speak. It would seem to make this test accurate, you would leave the mix of Castor, either, amyl nitrate, and FAME a constant, and just change the properties of the FAME. I am not a chemist, what am I missing?? In general human language please (GRIN)

Dave

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       Post #: 9

answers - 4/1/2003 10:50:15 PM   
mwright


 

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: King, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I will try to answer your questions the best I can;

I agree the RPM's are lower than I expected. The motor is just broken in from running as glow so RPM's may increase some with time. I think it would probably turn up better better on a commercial mix and that may come later.

I see your point that one variable should be changed at a time. This first mix was just to see if the stuff would run, thats all, no more and no less. Concerning the use of less oil, the FAME is very "oily" to start with.

I just want to see how much oil and ether is required to give a good idle, good transistion and top end. That's all, just good, not great performance. Untill I learn a lot more I don't feel comfortable comparing a home brew to a commercial blend. It's like me trying to pick a fight with professional boxer, I know I would lose very, very fast.

Let me kown if you have any suggestions, I'm going to fire it up this afternoon. I think these would be interesting: (doubt I'll get them all done today)

20% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 48% FAME
10% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 58% FAME
5% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 63% FAME

20% oil, 20% ether, 2% AN, 58% FAME
20% oil, 10% ether, 2% AN, 68% FAME
20% oil, 5% ether, 2% AN, 73% FAME

10% oil, 10% ether, 2% AN, 78% FAME
5% oil, 5% ether, 2% AN, 88% FAME

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       Post #: 10

Re: answers - 4/1/2003 11:22:41 PM   
Diesel Dave-RCU


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 12/22/2002
From: Monroe, MI, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by mwright

20% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 48% FAME
10% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 58% FAME
5% oil, 30% ether, 2% AN, 63% FAME

20% oil, 20% ether, 2% AN, 58% FAME
20% oil, 10% ether, 2% AN, 68% FAME
20% oil, 5% ether, 2% AN, 73% FAME

10% oil, 10% ether, 2% AN, 78% FAME
5% oil, 5% ether, 2% AN, 88% FAME [/QUOTE]

Well lets do this first, I am sure you know how a "real" diesel runs, but I am going to give a fast explanation anyhow, just for the benefit of anyone else reading this. Basically the engine on the compression stroke, is just compressing air. (this is a real diesel engine, like in a semi truck) In the process of compressing air, you create heat. So much so, that at the top of the stroke, when the fuel is injected, the temperature in the chamber is greater than the flash-point of the fuel, causing the fuel to burn instantly.

I drive trucks for a living. I happen to know that most diesel engines in the industry have a compression ratio greater than 20 to 1 to achieve this.

In a model engine, we don't have a chance at reaching that kind of compression ratio, without a catastrophic failure. This is why the either is in the fuel in the first place. with its much lower flash-point, than kerosene, or FAME in this case, it will start to burn at a compression more realistic for our engines. When the either burns, it in turn starts the kerosene. Either is the igniter, kerosene is the fuel, get it.

I see the lower oil mixes, working well, just because the FAME is so oily already. But the lower either mixes you have listed, I think will cause you lots of trouble. You will definitely have to increase the compression with less either. I would not take the compression any higher than 1/2 to 3/4 turn out, especially on a hot engine. Any more than that, you might break your connecting rod, or at least bend it.

Dave

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       Post #: 11

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 4/2/2003 12:47:21 AM   
mwright


 

Posts: 184
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: King, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I think you are probably right about the ether. Has anyone ever tried acetone in place of the ether?

Ether: boiling point 35-36 C flash point -40 C
Acetone: boiling point 55 C flash point -18 C

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       Post #: 12

Made some bio diesel, now what? - 4/2/2003 3:11:07 AM   
Diesel Dave-RCU


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 12/22/2002
From: Monroe, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think anyone has tried Acetone. I don't think it will work either. The ether's boiling point has something to do with it as well. I don't think Acetone would vaporize fast enough to be effective. Would be nice if it does, it is lots easier to get.

I have heard that you can spray starting fluid into your fuel to replace the ether if it has evaporated (IE- if your fuel is old, and not sealed tightly) Starting fluid, from the auto parts store is of course ether, and cetane. I hear that the cetane does not affect the engine. I have never tried it.

Dave

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       Post #: 13