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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/9/2012 5:11 AM   
Torqued-Up



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

My elevator mod, went with one servo in the tailplane like I done with the bobcat.

Very simple to do if using a moulded servo cover. I used a spare one from a Boomerang Elan.

I just cut away the film, glued in four wooden blocks in the corners and screwed down the servo cover, job done very simple.
I fitted it to the bottom of the tailplane so I wanted as much burn proof as possible so made up two alum horns, metal ball link and 3mm rod. Then covered the complete bottom of the tailplane with alum tape.

After I had the job done, I thought I could have also fitted it to the top of the tailplane, with the moulded servo cover it would have looked ok, as my idea initially was to take it out of view.
On the top would have made fitting the alum tape to the bottom easier. Will do that on the next one.




Nice setup and very tight linkage. But using a DS821?

Something I have noticed in the 171 pages of this thread is that many folks choose to use standard, plastic gear servos in critical areas on these airplanes. I know there must be some logic behind this but I'll be darned if I understand it. I will only use metal or titanium gear servos in everything from park fliers to 40% airplanes. I've seen plastic gear servos destroy themselves in far slower aircraft than a turbine Falcon. Can someone explain why they would put a $4,000+ airplane at risk for a $20 servo?



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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/9/2012 6:45 AM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Torqued-Up


quote:

ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

My elevator mod, went with one servo in the tailplane like I done with the bobcat.

Very simple to do if using a moulded servo cover. I used a spare one from a Boomerang Elan.

I just cut away the film, glued in four wooden blocks in the corners and screwed down the servo cover, job done very simple.
I fitted it to the bottom of the tailplane so I wanted as much burn proof as possible so made up two alum horns, metal ball link and 3mm rod. Then covered the complete bottom of the tailplane with alum tape.

After I had the job done, I thought I could have also fitted it to the top of the tailplane, with the moulded servo cover it would have looked ok, as my idea initially was to take it out of view.
On the top would have made fitting the alum tape to the bottom easier. Will do that on the next one.




Many people go way over the top when it comes to servos. Also the main problem with plastic geared servos and stripping gears etc is offten vibration. On a jet there is no vibration.

Nice setup and very tight linkage. But using a DS821?

Something I have noticed in the 171 pages of this thread is that many folks choose to use standard, plastic gear servos in critical areas on these airplanes. I know there must be some logic behind this but I'll be darned if I understand it. I will only use metal or titanium gear servos in everything from park fliers to 40% airplanes. I've seen plastic gear servos destroy themselves in far slower aircraft than a turbine Falcon. Can someone explain why they would put a $4,000+ airplane at risk for a $20 servo?





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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/9/2012 11:22 AM   
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I do agree I like metal gear servos too, but this is what the customer supplied and I felt it was perfectly adequate for the application.

I have never had a servo strip/break its gears in flight in 30yrs, in a crash, getting knocked in the car yes but not in flight.

On the falcon you only need a small elevator movement, so the servo is not under any real load, the elevator is also very well protected by the booms for getting a wack on the ground, more exposed surfaces that can be easily knocked would have a case for metal gears.
Also this jet is actually designed to use 2 mini servo's in the booms for the elevator.

Servos need to be selected as fit for the purpose, you can make your $4000 jet $6000 if you want by adding JR8711 servos, powerboxes etc but are they really needed?

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/9/2012 11:58 AM   
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Just to add to this discussion there is also the weight issue with three servo's at the back, I know its not much, but each gram/once at the rear will need two at the front approximately.

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/9/2012 12:56 PM   
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Hi guys, just to add, I never had any probs with my standard servos that came with my Spektrum radio setup.
The only issue I had, was my elevator servo arm, which was the standard nylon arm. After around 300 flights in freezing and boiling hot conditions, the splined part of my arm cracked and would allow only up elevator and not down elevator as the splines of the hub and arm rode up over eachother in one direction.
It was my 7th flight of the day and i only found out, when i did a low inverted pass down the runway and the model would not respond to down elevator, to climb, roll up the right way and the elvator gave me up. When i came in to land the down elevator mix with full flap did not give sufficient and i slowed up too much and pancaked in from around 10 feet up. Every thing was fine except the U/C ripped out.
I always give the control surfaces a wobble with my hand, before flight and did not detect anything.
On the ground i pushed the elevator down and it was back driving the servo, so i thought radio failuer.
In the evening i was stripping everything and investigating and fiound i could push the elevator in one direction and it did not back drive the servo. I then found the hairline crack in the arms hub.
Note- i never ever use any form of loctite or glue on servo arms, it attacks the material.
I would never have noticed this, even if i had 2 servos on the elevator, if one wasnt driving due to this condition, it would be maskeed by the other, until it failed as well.

I will use ally arms in future. Just a thought, worth a look at your arms if they have done a lot of flying.

cheers tim


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 9:24 PM   
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Guys Tornado V3 conversion packages are available for sale for your Falcon 120.  The conversion Packages include a set of wings that are fully sheeted with servo's mounted internally, full carbon fiber reinforcing top and bottom, double ply cross bracing and hard wood landing gear mounts, Composite Booms with Carbon fiber reinforcing servo's mounted intenrally and a Stabilzer that is fully sheeted with carbon fiber reinforcing internally.  This conversion allows you to use any of the new 23lb thrust turbines which will push your Falcon 120 to over 200mph and the new wing design will allow you to slow down to 18 mph.  

We are also selling composite fuel tanks and Cockpit kits which include new canopy and cockpit tub with dash and seat. as well as retracts struts wheels brakes package for your Falcon 120

Colors availble are 

Red Navy Trainer scheme 
Tonrado V3 Yellow Sport Scheme 
No Paint or Covering

for more info you can email or call me henry@modellbauusa.com or 954-224-1700.  If you would like to see pictures of the conversion kit take a look at the market place for our ad.



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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 9:41 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Modellbau USA

Guys Tornado V3 conversion packages are available for sale for your Falcon 120.  The conversion Packages include a set of wings that are fully sheeted with servo's mounted internally, full carbon fiber reinforcing top and bottom, double ply cross bracing and hard wood landing gear mounts, Composite Booms with Carbon fiber reinforcing servo's mounted intenrally and a Stabilzer that is fully sheeted with carbon fiber reinforcing internally.  This conversion allows you to use any of the new 23lb thrust turbines which will push your Falcon 120 to over 200mph and the new wing design will allow you to slow down to 18 mph.  

We are also selling composite fuel tanks and Cockpit kits which include new canopy and cockpit tub with dash and seat. as well as retracts struts wheels brakes package for your Falcon 120

Colors availble are 

Red Navy Trainer scheme 
Tonrado V3 Yellow Sport Scheme 
No Paint or Covering

for more info you can email or call me henry@modellbauusa.com or 954-224-1700.  If you would like to see pictures of the conversion kit take a look at the market place for our ad.



Nothing in the marketplace or on your website about this kit.

Please provide a link.

EDIT: And a published price would be nice too.





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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 9:46 PM   
Modellbau USA



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http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=844708

Its under Jets in the Market place



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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 10:23 PM   
YellowAircraft



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Hi,

Why no prices?

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 10:29 PM   
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There is absolutly nothing wrong with the wings, Booms, and tailplane in the standard falcon in my opinion



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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/17/2012 11:54 PM   
Modellbau USA



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 Price is $375 it's in on the ad in the market place


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 10:42 AM   
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I would like to do a comparison with my modified Falcon wings, can you tell me how much the wings, tail and booms weigh?

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 11:55 AM   
Modellbau USA



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 There is an increase of 2 1/2 lb total for the whole airplane built. Weight is not an issue at least for us because the airplane flies much better and on rails when it is heavier. Our Tornado V3 is coming in at 16lb RTF with out fuel. My personal Tornado V3 is 18 .5 because I have smoke system on it and it flies great. With 23lb of thrust this thing is a rocket at Florida jets I got radiated at 200+ accelerating in a climb. I then got told to slow down by the powers that be. Apparently the other three letter purple company complained lol


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 11:58 AM   
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Henry

But how much does one of your wings weigh? as I said I want to do a comparison with the wings for my Falcon that I have heavily modified, just want to know if I can reduce the weight of my 22lb porker.

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 1:53 PM   
Modellbau USA



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 That's a good question I'm heading to the shop in a bit. I will weigh it a post later


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 3:18 PM   
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Thanks Henry, look forward to your post.

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 4:14 PM   
Modellbau USA



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 1.1 lb per wing and .9 lb per boom


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 4:33 PM   
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Hi,

I mean prices for the rest of the products. Am I just not seeing them on your site?

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 4:47 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Modellbau USA

 1.1 lb per wing and .9 lb per boom


Thanks Henry.

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 6:26 PM   
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Mike how is yours so heavy the one I done was only just over 14lb with a wren 54

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/18/2012 6:31 PM   
BaldEagel



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Lots of mods as I initially installed a P80 so I beefed it up every where I could reach, plus the lead in the nose to counteract the weight of the porker P80, now I have a JetsMuts 90 Half the weight, but the same power I thought I would see what sort of saving I could get with the alternative wings ect:

Mike

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/20/2012 9:49 PM   
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Sir:
Do you have tanks in stock ?
Capacity ?
Cost ?
Will they fit in a stock Falcon that I want to build ?
Also, struts ?

Dave


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/20/2012 11:00 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xairflyer

Mike how is yours so heavy the one I done was only just over 14lb with a wren 54

Mine is 13.5 lbs dry and still going great after about 50-60 flights. With the little PST600, I had to put some lead in the tail booms to get it to balace properly.

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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/21/2012 12:42 AM   
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Incident report on Falcon 120 w/ p60 yesterday at a Michigan meet. need opinions on cause. Normal take-off. upwind and several hundred feet high suddenly shot up at 45-60 deg angle, totally abnormal situation, cut back throttle, goes into a spin, power recover, drastic climb again, try to sort things out get out about 1/2 mile still trying to get reasonable control, back over field(no range or radio problem on 2.4G), decide to do landing, head down-wind,cut back on power about 50%, spins to starboard wing and crashes.
Checked trans. to see if I had put down flaps and had not.Crash result:rt. side wing destroyed except flap and aileron intact and no problems apparent. Front spar severly bent,main spar(filled with hardwood dowel) still straight as normal.
Left wing totally intact and re-useable EXCEPT aileron push-rod arm
screw is almost out and aileron is not functional.
How can this cause such behavior????????????????????
This was about the 15th flight on the Falcon and it was a ****-cat with the p60. Did my usual pre flight and range check but did not check servo screws.
Lesson: fill the spars with wooden dowels(tight fitting)& chk. servo screws also as part of pre-flight. Dave

< Message edited by david101 -- 5/21/2012 2:35 AM >


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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet - 5/21/2012 2:55 PM   
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Hi david, sorry to hear of your incident,
did you have 2 servos on the elevator or one.
Have you had any Binding issues with your transmitter and receiver in the past.
What are your failsafe settings, throttle idle, or off, controls all neutral?

With positive uncommanded control commands like you describe, i would look at the radio gear. One area overlooked sometimes are the electrical connections at the servo leads. (they take a bashing and all mine are crimped and soldered now) Have you checked all your plugs to ensure that not one stray wire strand is exposed and could touch an adjacent pin . This has happened to me once and gave me a right wing down command, i was lucky to find it, if i hadnt i would have binned the whole radio set. with radio powered up, disturb ever plug and see if you get a lockout or uncommanded input

How are your batteries in the receiver and the transmitter, have you fitted a new fuel pump or anything that could induce EMI interference to the radio.
Cheers tim

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