RE: H9 Sundowner  
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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/9/2007 11:38:19 PM   
bzyguy01



Posts: 436
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Glendale , AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JoeMamma

bzyguy01,

I noticed in one of your pictures the lack of exit cooling holes in your cowl. Any trouble with overheating that 1.6 ?


Joe

I'm still testing temps with different props and what not but I think that the OS 160 likes 260-285 temps??? (MAX DURING FLIGHTS). I think that I need to baffle the left intake but I feel that the rear air exitbuilt into the fuse is more than enough....Everyone seems to overlook the HUGE air exit built into this thing....It should not require any additional air holes in the cowell like most other birds that have no built in air exhaust gallys like the SD. But I'm still testing and hopefully I will not need to open the cowell at all.

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< Message edited by bzyguy01 -- 8/9/2007 11:45:30 PM >

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/9/2007 11:56:58 PM   
reincarnate



Posts: 805
Joined: 10/1/2006
From: Columbia City, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Look in the gas engine section at a thread about baffles. I started it, because I was concerned about heat with my gasser. Any engine, whether it's glow or gas needs sufficient airflow over the fins, and inside a cowl they just don't get it. Read through the post, it's a wealth of information provided by some knowledgeable people. While usually threads can turn argumentative, everyone was of the same mind on this, only methods differed.

Here's the link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6147421/tm.htm

That being said, this daggone Sundowner cowl has to be one of the most difficult to baffle I've ever seen!

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/10/2007 12:17:08 AM   
Aerozona



Posts: 200
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Really good article reincarnate , thanx for the link. I'm in the process of doing my work-ups on the baffling for my "Downer" and will do it while I'm in the building stage. I have a couple of ideas that a friend has already proven to work. I'll get them up on here as I get them finished so I can put the "work" pics with the post...and your right. The "Downer" cowel in not the easiest to work with!

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/10/2007 1:30:13 AM   
Airnondas


 

Posts: 168
Joined: 11/19/2002
From: Laval, QC, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WLB

Here is the latest with my Moki 2.1 powered version. Straight exhaust pipe, small GreatPlanes little Toni wheel pants and 3" wheels, carbon wing tube, 12.2 lbs. APC 16x16 prop= 145mph on radar.



Hey WLB

Any pictures of the Sundowner Moki set-up and what RPM are you getting with that 16 X 16 prop.

Also is it a header pipe you used for the exhaust? Who makes it and again do you have pictures.

Last question, do you have heating issues with this engine combo? or are you using baffles in the cowl.

Thanks
_______________

Airnondas

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       Post #: 254

RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/10/2007 8:29:24 AM   
bzyguy01



Posts: 436
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Glendale , AZ, USA
Status: offline 		reincarnate......Like I said...I will most likely need to baffle this cowell but untill my temp tests are over...I will determine this for my setup. I have alot of birds and been round and round with baffling cowells....but not always does it work out like we think it will. Some people try them and say its way better but don't really know because they have not done true temp tests with a digital max temp recorder in a full tank flight. there are alot of threads on this topic and like you said....turn arguementative. but some true tests have turned out that baffling some cowells have proven to not make much if any difference in test temps. But almost all tests prove that baffling works in most cases. BUT...Like I said earlier in my posts....I will probably end up with a baffle in my SD. I will post my results when I get to that stage. I'm not really having any heating up issues....Arizonan has seen my SD fly with no heat issues in this 110 degree desert we live in....

PS....Nitro engines have lower EGT's than gassers and typically run cooler....especially since they pull almost twice as much cool fuel through them.

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/10/2007 6:33:56 PM   
WLB


 

Posts: 73
Joined: 2/11/2002
From: Waterloo, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Balsafire & Airnondas, I will try to take some pics this weekend. I used the included metal motor mounts cut down and lightend, a Mac's products straight exhaust header cut to approx. 3" so it just clears the cowl, no heat issues running the Moki approx. 100 rpm fat on top end however I did block the left cheek cowl inlet and the small round one so all the intake air is over the engine's head, about 8000 rpm on the ground so maybe around 9000 rpm in the air?, finally believe it or not the smaller wheel pants needed NO modification even bolted on with the existing holes! Now that doesn't happen very often.

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/10/2007 11:58:41 PM   
Aerozona



Posts: 200
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Where do I start, well here we go...

That is a fact!...bzyguy01's “Downer” did just fine in this Arizona heat. And I really feel as bzyguy01 does, flying in this desert heat of as high as 112 in the afternoon and cooling of at night to 103 as I have for many years that extensive cowling baffle mods is really over exaggerated and un-warranted in most cases. Besides the weight baffling adds and the friction drag when forcing the natural flow of air from one direction to another (from the manufactures design), the benefits when talking “Heat” is almost none.
I have done my fair amount of baffle testing and re-works because Arizona’s heat always has a flyer thinking along those lines anyways. I’m no expert on this subject by any means, but I have found that the work involved to baffle never comes close to a justifiable end results. More over than not I have found that when all is said and done… the guys that design and market these planes have already been there and done that! By the same token, in a few extreme engine mods and electronic ignition set-ups, I have seen where cowl baffling mod were needed and worked well. Again, only in a few cases though.

I’ve been doing some research in the past few days, after this discussion started about the Sundowner and baffling the cowl… I started asking creditable sources about the Sundowner and its cowling design in relation to air flow and heat:
1) The two horizontal openings on the left and right side of the of the prop opening are air intake to accommodate the various engine arrangements that builders may want to use. The kit itself is basically set up as the default for the Satio 180/220 Glow or the EVO 26GT/35GT2 Gas but was also recognized in that a builder may want something besides these choices to work with.
2) The round or “O”hole is also an air inlet but was designed as a directive air channel to move the incoming air from the horizontal openings at the top toward the air discharge area in the bottom rear of the cowl covered engine compartment.
Thanx for the use of your pic bzyguy01
3) To finish...My results have found that by design the overall air movement in through Sundowner’s cowl area was well thought out and meant to achieve the best possible results for the plane just the way it comes right “out of the box”.

I am just as guilty as many through the years for trying to OVER COMPLICATE simplicity.


< Message edited by Arizonan -- 8/11/2007 12:08:05 AM >

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/11/2007 12:31:33 AM   
Aerozona



Posts: 200
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		reincarnate, Rebellion...I also am going to use the NMP tail wheel assy. (great set-up) and wanted to know (as the instructions aren't real clear) how much tention did you guys use on the spring for the wheel coming from the rudder? I'm mounting it basically in the same position as the stock one but was wondering about the placement of the spring connection to the rudder?


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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/11/2007 4:27:53 PM   
zac dady


 

Posts: 101
Joined: 2/13/2006
From: mullen, NE, USA
Status: offline 		I successfully maidened my sundowner thursday after work. The plane flew great had some trim chages that needed to be made but I always do. The Evolution 26 ran great and this is my first gas engine. I fly at an old airport with half mile runway no problems landing it there. This is also my first big plane the dx7 radio worked great to. I really enjoy this plane. Just to think I thought I was gonna have to bring it home in a body bag. Hefty industial size garbage bag for you guys that don't know. Giant scale planes are fun. I'm going to go fly it couple of more times before I go to love airs big bird fly in Fort Collins Colorado. This will be my first IMAA fly in I have confidence in the sundowner that it will perform great. Anyways good luck to all of you guys that are building them now. Thanks for all the tips from this thread.

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/11/2007 10:54:48 PM   
Aerozona



Posts: 200
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Congrats zac daddy on your great first run. Hopfully this is just the begining of many many more to come! So when you go to the "fly-in" with the new bird, what event(s) will you enter your new "Downer" in?

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/12/2007 2:16:11 AM   
Aerozona



Posts: 200
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Glendale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Guys maybe you could answer a question about my Sundowner for me...I'm bringing my all my electronics online for servo adjustments etc. but I'm having a bit of a problem with the rear servo's for my elevators in getting them to work the right direction together. I have them on a "Y-harness" right now as that is the only way I can see to get them to work with my CH 2. I can get them to work with each other if I turn one of the servos around but that is not the way the manual shows the setup and that makes one of my elevator rods longer than the other etc. The manual shows them facing the same way and shows you how to make sure they are aligned with one another but if you turn one of the servos around the alignment process the manual shows won't work. I have looked the manual over from front to back and can't find anything where they explain how to make this work? Do you have any ideas or maybe know the way H9 makes this set up work? How did you all get yours to work? I sure would appreciate any help here...Thanks


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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/12/2007 2:21:27 AM   
jfetter


 

Posts: 321
Joined: 11/25/2003
From: MIRAMAR, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arizonan

Hey Guys maybe you could answer a question about my Sundowner for me...I'm bringing my all my electronics online for servo adjustments etc. but I'm having a bit of a problem with the rear servo's for my elevators in getting them to work the right direction together. I have them on a "Y-harness" right now as that is the only way I can see to get them to work with my CH 2. I can get them to work with each other if I turn one of the servos around but that is not the way the manual shows the setup and that makes one of my elevator rods longer than the other etc. The manual shows them facing the same way and shows you how to make sure they are aligned with one another but if you turn one of the servos around the alignment process the manual shows won't work. I have looked the manual over from front to back and can't find anything where they explain how to make this work? Do you have any ideas or maybe know the way H9 makes this set up work? How did you all get yours to work? I sure would appreciate any help here...Thanks



The servos are plugged in two seperate channels on the RX and mixed via one of the mixes in your TX (basically assiging one of the aux channels to slave to the elevator channel). The only other way to do it would be a reversing y-harness or match-box but you lose the ability to make independant and minor center and travel adjustments unless you use 2 channels mixed...

Jack

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RE: H9 Sundowner - 8/12/2007 2:26:07 AM   
reincarnate



Posts: 805
Joined: 10/1/2006
From: Columbia City, IN, USA
Status: offline 		What radio are you using??

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