Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> ARF or RTF >> NitroModels Support >> Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem
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Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/10/2007 4:53:18 AM   
Flyah


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		My Nitro Tiger Moth 120 was recently completed. I am experiencing a problem with the wing strut mounting tabs on each wing. They have become loose before even flying the TM. This problem exists on all of the outboard wing tabs. Simply loose from the wing, whereas they should be securely attached to the wing.

Has anyone incurred this problem with the TM? If so, did you find a good fix? I'd like some insight from anyone who has had this problem before I cut open the covering to find and make repairs.

Thanks for your reply.

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       Post #: 1

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/11/2007 5:48:09 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have this plane.

How were the tabs installed?



On my NP Ultimates ( from the 40S up through the 1.20) there were holes in place.

I had to cut out the covering, insert the tab screws, then I removed them and hardened the wood with a generous application of CA everywhere I could reach through the hole.

Once dry I then re-inserted the tabs again, removed them yet again, and applied 30 minute epoxy on the tabs and holes, reinstalled, then put the wings on and let them dry.

Since the wing struts affix to the tabs I've had no problems removing the wings.

I've had NO movement or loosening of the tabs at all after hundreds of flights.

BTW: Don't forget to Clearcoat the covering!





_____________________________

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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

(in reply to Flyah)
       Post #: 2

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/12/2007 2:14:31 AM   
Flyah


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Opjose. I appreciate your advice. Cutting through the covering to expose the tabs is most likely my only option. Now my biggest question is what are the tabs fixed to inside the wing(?) The ribs? And if so, just how strong are the ribs to be supporting the wing tabs. I may have to retrofit or beef up the support inside the wings. Otherwise, this is a fine airplane.

(in reply to opjose)
       Post #: 3

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/12/2007 4:14:37 AM   
opjose



Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		On the Ultimates the tabs screw into a hardwood block which is about 1" square then affixed to the spars and wing ply.

BTW: the proceedure I used was lightly documented ( what documentation? ) in the manual.

The only thing I had to cut of the covering were the screw hole areas themselves.... I didn't mean to imply that I had to remove the surrounding area.

Knowing that this is one of the biggest stress points the only thing different I did was to harden the wood with generous amounts of CA.

I'd assume that your plane is similiarly built.

It could be that the build proceedure was screwed up.

At worst you could cut back the opposite side covering, and re-inforce.

A small annoyance, but better that it be done than it fail in the air.

Good luck! The plane looks great.




_____________________________

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Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

(in reply to Flyah)
       Post #: 4

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/14/2007 9:07:09 AM   
astro2724


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/11/2006
From: 1001 67th ave ter. w., FL, USA
Status: offline 		Every one of my tabs came loose.Two of them when it was flying!!I had to land very fast and with a lot of sweat!!!!This plane seems like a good deal till you have to spend weeks fixing all the things they did wrong!And dont expect support they wont give any.Well now That im B------- here they may.They dont email you back from there website.Make sure you at least use some ca on the screws in the fuse.I have had this plane for 9 months and I love the look of it but it is the biggest pain in the a-- I have ever had.The struts are the worst, but I have had failures in ribs and in the tail section also,where they have used balsa instead of lite ply.And good luck on finding a covering that is close to what you have to fix.If you fly it as a slowpoke all day it may be o.k. but the original was a semi aerobatic plane.Things should not break from a simple slow speed loop.Make sure you cut your trottle to idle when you pull out of a loop,If it has even the slightest revs it will break something.Oh by the way they cant even find my invoice or who I am.That is conveniant.Oh well.I would recommend adding some ply to where your screws attach the struts or something on the fuse to give it some beef because it will fail.also try to see if they used balsa or ply in the tail section.I have a friend with one and his has ply and its ok,mine has balsa(with some reinforcement now(the chinese have no idea what they are making!).Also make sure it is a little nose heavy or it will get almost unflyable.Even with there recommended engine it needs a bit of weight up front to get it to balance good.I had to put 12 oz. at first and then after getting the empenage to hold together 14 3/4 oz..and this is with a old ys 4stroke that is a brick.If you have any probs that you cant resolve.Give me a email at Astro2724@yahoo.com and Hopefully I can help if yours is as bad as mine.After my long rant!Remove all the blocks and glue them in with some good ca or epoxy.They used hot glue or something of that kind from the factory and it will fail!

(in reply to Flyah)
       Post #: 5

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/14/2007 2:40:07 PM   
Flyah


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Astro. Looks like I may have opened up a can of worms with my posting inquiring about strut problems. I will have to look real close at this Nitro Tiger Moth for other locations that may fail. Such as the attachment points of the struts to the fuse as you suggest. I haven't investigated the inside of the wing yet. But will go through the underside and reinforce as both of you have advised. Bottom line -- I will be beefing it up. And thanks for the tip on the weight-balance. I am pulling the TM around (....hopefully....) with an O.S. 1.20 and have already added weight up front to balance.

(in reply to astro2724)
       Post #: 6

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 6/14/2007 4:36:14 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		It's easy enough to check the tail.

It's easy enough to make sure that the tabs are in place and securely mounted.


While I don't have this particular plane I do have the 1.20 Ultimate that is similiarly built.


A little TLC is required during the build to prevent problems.


I've flown the snot of the Ultimate 1.20 ( older version ) and have never had ANY problems with it...

Of course I re-inforced the tail with CF support struts. Hardened all points I can with CA. Epoxied everything, etc.

I've seen the "tail" problem on a couple of planes and I do indeed think that someone screwed up.

I have not seen a similiar problem with the wing ribs though. If you've crashed your plane please post pictures so we can see.


NP has been notified of the tail problem and have stated that they are changing the tail structures accordingly.

They seem to be quite willing to change things out for people who have problems though.

They do require your invoice number as a reference.



_____________________________

-
Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

(in reply to Flyah)
       Post #: 7

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 7/6/2007 4:20:32 PM   
cjtyped


 

Posts: 155
Joined: 12/23/2003
From: Derby, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I have the Tiger Moth 120. I have not had the problems listed, and I do loops, rolls, and even spins. Magnum 120 fs for an engine; no further weight needed for balancing.
I am very happy with mine. Will fly slower than a Cub, and is a relaxing plane to fly.
I replaced the tail landing gear, and put a Cub style landing gear on mains. New wheels. And used 4-40 allen head bolts with blind nuts on the fuselage/wing struts.
Also drilled a hole through underside of top wing to place screws into the joiner tube.
Other than the above, I have not modified this airplane. I have had on my third flying season now. As long as you have an idea of what you're doing, this plane is a PLEASURE.

(in reply to Flyah)
       Post #: 8

RE: Nitro Tiger Moth 120 Wing Strut Tabs Problem - 7/6/2007 4:43:19 PM   
opjose



Posts: 5494
Joined: 11/26/2005
From: Poolesville, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Yeah... a bit of ARF building experience is needed.

With experience and a little TLC the planes are good values.

I always look for any possible weak points, and end up performing minor re-inforcement and hardening whenever possible.

This is typical of ANYONE's ARF no matter the vendor.

I recently put together a couple of planes from a "big" vendor, where the stabs snapped in two on a relatively sedate pullup at mid throttle. The tails were not of sufficient strength... buy comparison to this ahem, "Great" Plane, NitroPlane's kits have been quite sturdy for me.

Bottom line, double check ANY ARF to be sure.

I usually use most of the included hardware whenever possible, and also usually replace the tail wheel and a few minor items.

I have not had a broken tab yet.

They are REALLY in there as I;

- Hardened the blocks with thin CA first
- Test fit everything including the wings
- Epoxied the tabs in place ( once they are properly aligned there is no need to remove them ever. )



_____________________________

-
Build em'', fly em'', crash em'' and build more.

(in reply to cjtyped)
       Post #: 9

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