RE: Another Custom Camera Mount

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 6/16/2007 7:24 AM

dart340

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Hi Mike,

Thanks for the posting the Deshaker setup, I'll try it out. Keep up the good work. One of the things I tried was sharpening the video. Because your videos were captured in progressive mode, sharpening helps your video quite a bit. I tried it with your 794 video. Here is the result:

http://members.shaw.ca/the.photographer/Deshake794dssharp.avi

I used a sharpening level of 50.

Tim

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 6/21/2007 12:09 PM

Dirk Schooner

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Mike, use QuickTime Pro, it does eveything you need, Windows Movie Maker is a joke, Avoid at all costs!

Not been on here for a while (nearly a year) nice to see some great progress with camera mounts and video/stills stuff.

I am able to fly mine again now in the UK that the weather is getting better.

Check my YouTube channel for some of my latest Footage. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=DirkSchooner

< Message edited by Dirk Schooner -- 6/28/2007 4:31 PM >

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/25/2007 11:05 AM

Old Man Mike

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Now that I can accurately measure height with the on board altimeter, I've been trying to see how high I can take video and stills. Here's the best so far at a peak of 270 feet:

DF video at 270 feet

DF still at 270 feet

Still using the green foam custom mount and the Panaxonic DMC-FX07 camera.

Dirk, I agree that QuickTime Pro is good if you keep everything in MOV mode. I have been using Sony's Vegas Movie Platinum 8.0 for editing and conversions.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/25/2007 6:42 PM

Sky High

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That video was great Old Man Mike! It was really stabile too. It's good to see what almost 300 ft looks like. How high is your radio tower? Can you post a version of the video without processing? Thanks.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/26/2007 6:43 AM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sky High

That video was great Old Man Mike! It was really stabile too. It's good to see what almost 300 ft looks like. How high is your radio tower? Can you post a version of the video without processing? Thanks.

Thanks! The radio tower is 90 foot. The unprocessed video file is around 500mB for a 5min flight. Here is what the video looked like before the deshake processing:

Video before Deshake

I've also include the altimeter log graph. It is amazing to me that it even shows the change in height when I picked it up for the TI arming at the beginning and when I picked it up to cut off power at the end.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/26/2007 5:36 PM

Sky High

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I meant uprocessed for stabilization. Could you post the video unstabilized but still compressed? Thanks.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/28/2007 4:54 AM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sky High

I meant uprocessed for stabilization. Could you post the video unstabilized but still compressed? Thanks.

Sorry it took me a while. I had not kept that intermediate step and had to reproduce it from the original mov file. I've edited my post so that it will now show the same period of time without the deshake processing. It did not look as bad as what I thought it would without the video deshake. But I still like the deshake version better.

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/28/2007 5:35 AM

Sky High

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Yes, I agree. The picture looks alot better than the SAVS camera and it doesn't bounce! The processing makes it even better. So, is there a way to know how accurate that altimeter is? You could fly level with the top of your tower which you know is 90 ft and see if the altimeter shows 90 ft.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/28/2007 6:18 AM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sky High

Yes, I agree. The picture looks alot better than the SAVS camera and it doesn't bounce! The processing makes it even better. So, is there a way to know how accurate that altimeter is? You could fly level with the top of your tower which you know is 90 ft and see if the altimeter shows 90 ft.

I've done exactly that for not only my tower but at a friend's tower which is at 120'. Both times it was within a few feet of the actual height. At the beginning of the recording, I have it set for an auto zero. At the end of a 10 min flight it is sometimes as much as 8 feet in error. With the more typical 5 min flights it is almost always within a few feet of zero. I am quite amazed that it works so well and thought I might eventually use it to implement an altitude level hold.

I tried the image measurement technique by calibrating the number of pixels for a known reference size object at a known straight line distance. But unless your camera is pointed straight down at an object of known size, calculating the straight line distance based on estimated angle makes for a very inaccurate measurement. For example, I had use the image measurement technique on that crash video I posted and thought it was close to 500' high. Based on the flights I've made with accurate measurements from the altimeter, I think the crash video was closer to 250 feet in height.

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/29/2007 7:58 AM

Old Man Mike

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I've also been experimenting with different settings on the camera for stills. Here's one taken at 200 feet while flying with the TI OFF (Cloudy conditions seemed to make TI mode fly erratic):

Pointing West at 200 Feet

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/31/2007 8:01 PM

BB_DF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

I've also been experimenting with different settings on the camera for stills. Here's one taken at 200 feet while flying with the TI OFF (Cloudy conditions seemed to make TI mode fly erratic):

Pointing West at 200 Feet

Mike

Hi Mike,
I picked up the Panasonic FX07 today. How do you trigger it for stills? Is there a way to have it shoot continuously, or do you have to use the timer (10 seconds is not enough time to spool up the T-Rex and climb into position).

Thanks,
Bruce

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/31/2007 9:41 PM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BB_DF

Hi Mike,
I picked up the Panasonic FX07 today. How do you trigger it for stills? Is there a way to have it shoot continuously, or do you have to use the timer (10 seconds is not enough time to spool up the T-Rex and climb into position).

Thanks,
Bruce

After so many hours of research and development, I'm not sure that I should release the final design. Final cost might be too high for some. Anyway, here it is:

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 7/31/2007 10:11 PM

BB_DF

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Ah yes, simple and elegant! Great little camera - thanks for the recommendation. I just ran a test and it will shoot high-res pictures for over 12 minutes with a 2GB SD card, which was only $24 at Best Buy.

Here's my camera mount for the T-Rex. Since conventionals tilt a little in a hover due to the side thrust of the tail rotor, you need to have a complicated pendulum mount if you point the camera forwards, to keep the horizon level. I figure it's just as easy (maybe easier) to shoot from the side, and all that complexity just goes away! The camera and 1/16" aluminum angle are so light I can't tell any change in the CG when I pick it up by the head. Any side tilt due to translating tendency in a hover will just change the downward angle, and not affect the horizon (in theory). Flight tests coming soon.

BTW it's such a joy to fly the 600 without that boat anchor hanging out underneath! That might have to wait for the Maxi-Joker.

Cheers,
Bruce

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Post #: 38

RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/1/2007 1:34 AM

Old Man Mike

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Yeah, I really like the camera. I have thousands of dollars in Nikon gear but I end up shooting more with this camera because I can carry it in my pocket. I also enjoy pulling out the SD card, plugging it in the computer and browsing the 500+ pictures taken during a DF flight. There are always some excellent shots which I'm sure I would never had taken using a remote control shutter. You probably discovered that you can keep the button held down and just cut the power switch on and off to start and stop the shooting. Just be sure that the first shot has enough light, otherwise it will not continue to shoot.

Looks like you've got a good first mounting attempt. I like the advanced popsicle controls. I am most interested in see the resulting video to see if the hard mounting couples much vibration into the camera. Seems like you could hang a foam mount design and have that extra protection just in case you come down a little hard.

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/1/2007 2:27 AM

BB_DF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike
...You probably discovered that you can keep the button held down and just cut the power switch on and off to start and stop the shooting. Just be sure that the first shot has enough light, otherwise it will not continue to shoot.

I hadn't tried turning the power on/off with the button depressed. My MK III Starbucks stirrer switch comes equipped with a little wedge that raises the lever off the button - but your idea is simpler.

The manual says that the whole sequence uses not only the light, but also the focus settings of the first frame, and I found this to be true. I turned it on with the camera close to the ground and all the subsequent aerial shots were blurry. I verified this with some hand-held tests. I'll need to hold the airframe up so the camera sees an infinite focus when I turn it on. If you're not already doing this on purpose, your aerials will be even more crisp. Couldn't tell if that was just haze, or slightly out of focus.

I'm going to concentrate on stills instead of video for awhile, because I think I have a lot better chance of making a few bucks selling them, but I'll also shoot some test videos. With the T-REX 600, Spektrum DX7, AP-2000i and Lumix combo, I think I'll have a great winning package. Surprisingly, I've got WAY less than the cost of my SAVS tied up in this rig. However, there's still a lot of interest in the DF from our government clients, and I'm about to start training one of their pilots on the DF Thursday. Not a bad way to make a few shekels!

- Bruce

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/1/2007 3:40 AM

Old Man Mike

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Actually for continuous burst mode, the shutter speed and aperture will vary for every shot based on the amount of light and image movement. Only the focus remains fixed on the first frame. But I think I have been getting sloppy about making sure that the camera is pointing at a far object when I turn on the camera for burst mode stills.

For video, focus and aperture are both fixed on the first frame. There does appear to be some sort of auto slow adjustment for light while recording the video, almost like an agc.

I have been shooting at a fixed ISO400 since that made a real difference before going to the suspended foam mount. I have just started using the IISO setting which adjust ISO based on the movement of the subject and brightness. I'm also starting to use the MODE 2 deshake which does a greater deshake but is available only for stills. Now that the foam mount seems to be doing so well, I need to go back and test some of the other camera modes. There are quite a few possible combinations. It will be interesting to compare best settings.

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/1/2007 11:31 PM

BB_DF

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Here are a couple of pics shot today with the above rig, and the camera set to ISO 800. I put a little foam between the alum angle and the skid support, otherwise no changes. It's amazing how your flying skills go to h*** when you're distracted by something new. Still in 6 minutes I got over 20 "keepers" out of 500 frames. Can't complain about that! With a little practice, I think it would be pretty easy to guess what approximate altitude and offset would get the job done. Then just loiter around up there awhile and catch some nice fish.

Cheers,
Bruce

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/2/2007 6:16 AM

Old Man Mike

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Nice! Looks like the picture is perfect for a listing in the local real estate marketplace.

I envy your flying with a light payload. The DF is really at the limit with my camera, mount, metal rollcage, altimeter and color tape. I'm up to a total payload weight of 9.4 oz and you really have to be careful during the decent not to come down too fast.

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/2/2007 6:23 AM

Sky High

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You are both getting great shots. Do your cameras have a sports mode? I have heard that helps with dampening vibrations and exposure.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/2/2007 7:39 AM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sky High

You are both getting great shots. Do your cameras have a sports mode? I have heard that helps with dampening vibrations and exposure.

Yes, but my initial tests with the early mount did not show much if any improvement. With the current mount I'm getting about 70% good shots that have no visible motion blurring. With the available camera options, there are around two dozen setting combinations that probably should be tested. I suppose I could set up a Taguchi Design of Experiments but that would remind me too much of my working days......

Mike

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/2/2007 9:27 PM

BB_DF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike
I suppose I could set up a Taguchi Design of Experiments but that would remind me too much of my working days......

Mike, you're a handful!

Some shots taken today at the Government Training Institute, with the Panasonic FX07, ASA 400. Very overcast/smoky due to numerous fires. The big T-Rex is a crowd pleaser. I got 24 good shots from this session, because when I cherry pick the batch I rename them to letters, and I almost ran out of alphabet!

- Bruce

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/4/2007 1:14 AM

geoffff

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

I envy your flying with a light payload. The DF is really at the limit with my camera, mount, metal rollcage, altimeter and color tape. I'm up to a total payload weight of 9.4 oz and you really have to be careful during the decent not to come down too fast.

How do you lift that much weight with your DF? I can barely lift the 4.2 oz for my little camera. And for that, the DF batteries have to be just recently fully charged up!

-- Geoff

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/4/2007 3:33 AM

Sky High

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

... (Cloudy conditions seemed to make TI mode fly erratic)

I don't know if you were kidding but if not, it is well documented that heavy cloud cover will create erratic flying behavior when using Ti. I wouldn't advise flying at altitude with all of your gear on board when there are heavy clouds. It's not like it will fly erratically only when at altitude though. You'll notice it immediately. However, I have purposefully flown in dense fog too thick to see through and was able to maintain remarkable control.

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/4/2007 6:42 AM

BB_DF

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sky High

I don't know if you were kidding but if not, it is well documented that heavy cloud cover will create erratic flying behavior when using Ti. I wouldn't advise flying at altitude with all of your gear on board when there are heavy clouds. It's not like it will fly erratically only when at altitude though. You'll notice it immediately. However, I have purposefully flown in dense fog too thick to see through and was able to maintain remarkable control.

There's a real art to calibrating the DF. I have two patents for equipment similar to the Ti circuitry, so I have spent a lot of time on the phone talking to the FMA engineers, and also to Mike Dammar, trying to understand how the system really works.

There are a lot of tricks for calibrating the DF, like holding the DF at an angle when you press the arming button, but it's all based on a very thorough knowledge of the algorithms used to determine sky vs. land. The DF can fly over large bodies of water, for instance, if you calibrate it correctly. The main problem that occurs is when the sensors read an abnormal difference in temperature between ground & sky. This can be too great a delta, such as over asphalt, or too small a delta, such as under a heavy overcast.

A general rule of thumb is to try and calibrate it over the coolest patch of land you can find. Thus if the sky is reflecting and retaining a large amount of heat from the earth, you should be able to tell from the green LEDs that the temperature differential is not adequate. My experience: DON'T fly on one LED!

- Bruce

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RE: Another Custom Camera Mount - 8/4/2007 7:51 AM

Old Man Mike

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geoffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

I envy your flying with a light payload. The DF is really at the limit with my camera, mount, metal rollcage, altimeter and color tape. I'm up to a total payload weight of 9.4 oz and you really have to be careful during the decent not to come down too fast.

How do you lift that much weight with your DF? I can barely lift the 4.2 oz for my little camera. And for that, the DF batteries have to be just recently fully charged up!

-- Geoff

Are you running the HD motors?

Mike

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