RE: Mini Titan thread (Full Version)

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osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/22/2008 11:05:49 PM)

Cool, thanks, D.




BarnyardPilot -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/29/2008 12:26:46 AM)

It's amazing what one will do to stay in the air. It was cold the other day and I sat the MT down on the edge of a unseen rock and busted the stock landing gear. Well none of my LHS stock MT parts but they do have Trex stuff so I picked up some struts. They didn't have the tubes in stock so thinking back to the walmart knitting needle tail boom I put on the Axe CP I came up with this till I get some tubes. The struts fit great just had to drill new holes.




redvtr1000 -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/29/2008 12:54:42 AM)

RC David,

the mini titan in kit form is not all that hard to assemble. The manual is decent (not excellent, but probably pretty good as far as heli manuals go), if you have some rc experience it will not be all that hard, just take your time and read the manual a couple times for each step. I built it as my first build (helis anyhow), I had some experience with planes and cars before. The car mechanical portion kind of transfers over. Barracudahockey has a nice review of the mini-titan right here on RCU that is pretty helpful. Between that review, a few nights, and some help from the forum, you could probably put the thing together and be flying it (or crashing) without too much help.

I wouldn't really steer you that way though. I think you can and should go through the assembly and learn as much as you can while doing it. Then, you find a local field with a couple heli guys, have them check your setup and if all looks good, strap some training gear on it and go.

The AMA website has a club locator feature and there is also a pilot locator site out there. Search google for "rc pilot locator" I think you can find it that way.

Barnyard --

I like the landing gear look, the sewing needle tail boom was one of those things I never did to my axe. I bent the boom more than a couple times early in my flying, usually just straightened it back out until it was too weak. I like the red anodized look though, you could probably skewer something with the front of em!




RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/29/2008 7:25:43 AM)

Thanks Bill (Oster) and redvtr.

I've read three very favorable reviews (one was barracudahockey's) on the mini-Titan and actually talked to and watched someone flying one last Friday at our local golf dome. It/he flew AWESOME!!! He was doing excellent 3D stuff with the "stock" brushless motor/speed control. The only upgrades he had were aluminum head and CF blades. It really did fly quieter than a T-rex too.

I'm 90% sure I want the MT over a T-Rex.

I also built/cusomized cars, boats and a couple planes 10+ years ago but I'm not in a "building mood" these days. That said, I agree that it's better to assemble it yourself so we'll see what happens when I am ready to buy it. I'm still waiting for a Honey Bee King II that someone has custom built and sent. If I receive it soon then I will probably wait until summer/fall for the mini-Titan but if I don't, I will buy the MT ASAP.

I will have to find a local "Heli Guru" to show me the ropes with this. We have several heli pilots in the area and I have a lead on a mini-Titan supporter/expert so will follow up with him.

Thanks.

Dave D.

ps- Barnyard, thanks for the tip with the knitting needles. That might come in handy for me someday ;-)




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/29/2008 8:08:39 AM)

Enjoy, Dave :). Whichever one you get, they're both good helis, in different ways.




redvtr1000 -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/29/2008 4:44:57 PM)

You aren't kidding about the noise factor. The t-rex sounds like it uses a bicycle chain instead of a belt if you ask me. The noise isn't so bad, good bit of gear noise as they spool up but not so bad when they are running. MT is almost silent when you compare it to the rex, at least the ones I have been around.

My stock motor started the screechy screechy though (bad bearing in there somewhere) though it provides plenty of power for a beginner right on through.




HardWyrd -> RE: Mini Titan thread (1/30/2008 4:41:31 AM)

WOW!!! thats cool. I had to lol. I use the knitting needle has a tail boom to on my Axe cp It works great. Thanks goodness for the knitting community. To help use poor R/C Heli guys.




RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/5/2008 6:52:36 AM)

Well guys...

It looks like I will be joining the mini-Titan club. I've read several reviews including the excellent one barracudahockey did.

If there are ANY other tips/hints on set-up I should know please let me know. This will be my first collective pitch heli so any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Right now the spec sheet looks like this:

-mini-Titan E325 (Kit w/Motor & ESC)
-Spektrum DX7 (Heli) w/3 DS285 servos for cyclic (will replace with metal geared servos as neccessary)
-Futaba 9257 Servo on tail (recommended highly by local heli guru)
-Futaba GY401 Gyro

Thanks.

Dave




redvtr1000 -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/5/2008 1:03:51 PM)

RC David

You ought to enjoy that setup. If you haven't yet ordered, I will run another scenario by you.

You might consider buying the barebones kit minus motor and esc. The stock motor has plenty of power and the esc seems to work just fine, but...

My stock motor (and many others) started to squeel/screech from a bearing gone bad. Did it mostly in idleup but I still think it should have lasted a lot longer before starting that mess. I just replaced it with a JGF 500th, running a 13t pinion. I think the JGF with a 13t pinion will give you a bit more power than the stock TT and might prove to last longer.

I don't have any gripes with the stock TT esc. I had some kind of lockout/power loss along the way with my MT (using the same basic setup you intend to go with) and added a CC BEC and things have been fine since.

You could snag a seperate CC esc and forget the MT electronics in the beginning if you wanted, might save you from doing it down the road.

Whatever you decide on the electronics, you should be happy either way. I would almost call the CC BEC a required piece of equipment. It will work fine without it, but you get peace of mind knowing that if your esc conks out, you receiver will still be powered. It's cheap too so won't kill your pocket.

As a first CP heli, I definitely reccomend you make a trip to the LHS and get the goods to build yourself a decent set of training gear. I bought two carbon fiber rods and crossed them in a "x", then zip tie that to the landing gear.

At the end of each rod, mount a foam golf ball or plastic ping pong ball. I went with foam and secured them on the rod with fuel tubing and a washer. This was a very good working setup for getting the hover basics down without tipping it over.





RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/7/2008 5:16:35 PM)

Thanks Bill & redvtr.

Now a few questions for all...

I am using JR DS285MG servos on cyclic and a Futaba 9257 on the tail. As I've read elsewhere, there are some hardware difficulties getting the right size screws for these as TT didn't include the right ones (or best for these servos). Has anyone here used these servos and can you tell me exactly what screws/ball links etc. work the best for both the 285's and 9257?

Also, did you use the rubber grommets on the servo mounts? I thought they might make control seem "mushy" so assumed I should NOT use them.

In addition, I recently read another review (can't remember which mag) that there were flybar weights (collars) on the flybar (to help smooth response for novices). The author tried flying with them off but said using them made it fly more calmly. The model I have (ARF) does not have, show or mention anywhere in the manual those flybar collars. Did TT change the design and delete the flybar collar weights?

Should I buy some and put them on? If so, what size/weight collars?

Thanks for helping this mini-Titan noob.

Dave




redvtr1000 -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/7/2008 6:44:47 PM)

Dave,

I didn't use those servos so I would be hard pressed to give you real facts on the servos and associated hardware. I had issues with the hitecs I used and it required a trip to the lhs. If I remember correctly, something with the 9650 on the tail required me to use a trex ball on the servo end. I think the screws that the mt kit comes with were too small in diameter to screw into the hole of the servo arm. If you have a lhs handy you may just want to get your parts together and make a trip to get the required hardware.

I skipped the rubber grommets.

When you mount the servos, you may or may not end up shimming them a bit. The mini titan was designed around the Ace C1016 servo from what I have read and the mounting tabs on that servo are positioned further down the case. Using the hitecs, I trimmed a piece of servo horn on the elevator servo and fit it between the mount and the servo. This shimmed the servo forward 3-4 mm and got a nice straight run on the pushrod to the swash, also prevented it from rubbing the fram. I don't know if you will need to do this on those servos but it is something to think about.

I think some have gotten by without doing anything in that department but look at yours on a case by case basis.

As far as the collars go, I wouldn't bother. I used that trick on my axe cp and it seemed to help a bit but I can't be sure. With the mini titan, I think you would accomplish the same thing by adding in some extra expo to your controls to soften the response around center. The MT is really quite stable, just throw on the training gear and pop it into a low hover and see what you think. If it feels like it is all over the place, and you are overcorrecting, maybe add a bit more expo and try to keep your control inputs very small.

The collars won't hurt you if you decide to try em, to find a size that fits, take your flybar to the lhs and get a set of them that go on. Usually four in a pack or so, put one on either side out by the paddles and try it. I can't remember what the exact size I had was or I'd give you more info.



It will all be depend on your skill (or lack thereof) but I think you should be okay without the weights. Set it up in per the manual for beginner and not 3d, that reduces your control a bit and I found it to be pretty docile that way.




BarnyardPilot -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/7/2008 9:48:09 PM)

Ditto on what redvtr said but if you want the weights TT makes them( http://www.eboyztoyz.net/index.php?op=showitem&sku=8706) You should be able to get them most places I would think.




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/7/2008 10:53:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redvtr1000
When you mount the servos, you may or may not end up shimming them a bit. The mini titan was designed around the Ace C1016 servo from what I have read and the mounting tabs on that servo are positioned further down the case. Using the hitecs, I trimmed a piece of servo horn on the elevator servo and fit it between the mount and the servo. This shimmed the servo forward 3-4 mm and got a nice straight run on the pushrod to the swash, also prevented it from rubbing the fram. I don't know if you will need to do this on those servos but it is something to think about.


Interesting- I may have dodged that without even knowing it. With the S3107s I did use the grommets/brass and everything lined up perfectly (didn't have to trim anything, either). I'm not planning any 'crack' moves so I like the way it flies with that.

Thanks for pointing out the servo end ball on the tail- I just checked mine, and I used an Align ball there, too, but forgot about the substitution. Sorry, Dave.

quote:

ORIGINAL: redvtr1000
It will all be depend on your skill (or lack thereof) but I think you should be okay without the weights. Set it up in per the manual for beginner and not 3d, that reduces your control a bit and I found it to be pretty docile that way.


Agree with that, for sure. With a lower head speed and some expo the MT is very easy on you.





RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/9/2008 7:40:56 AM)

Thanks guys!

The maiden was TODAY! A local heli guru trimmed it for me (flying 1 and 1/2 packs) and then I finished the second pack and we had to leave. It was much harder to control than I expected. I did come from a coaxial (and about 25hrs of SIM practice) so I guess it will get easier with time. I could keep it in a 3x3 foot box for a few seconds and then it would get away from me a little and my mentor would tell me to "put her down" as it would start to sway larger arcs.

I have a little tail vibration (but the blades look like they're tracking pretty good) and my mentor told me to balance the blades and if that doesn' help then balance the flybar. I'm not quite sure how I will go about doing the flybar though. Any other ideas to get rid of tail vibration?

Also, I did add the T-Rex flybar weights to give me any stability benefit I could get.

My expo is about 57%. He was trying a few different values for me from 54 to about 70 but I think we settled on 57 for now.

As far as the servo mount problem, I had it too. I ended up putting the rubber grommets and brass bushings in the rear cyclic servo to get it to clear the body mount post and frame. I DID NOT use them on the front 2 cyclic servos because I didn't want to take the time to do it then (we were on a time constraint) and he told me it wouldn't make much difference. I might either put the grommets and bushings on the front 2 (so all three are the same) or custom make something to put behind the servo to move it forward.

What do you guys think???



I did use Align ball links on the bottom of the swash linkage but kept the top stock.

Not only is this heli stuff new to me but 4 channel radios are too. I'm use to just 2 on the land and water vehicles. Trying to learn the features of the DX7 and how they relate to your model is quite complex. The manual is not too good either. Just trying to bind the radio and receiver was a stumper until I got some help on the phone. The instructions in the manual were incorrect.

I now need a blade balancer and a hard shell case for the MT. It will NOT fit in a T-Rex case due to the tail boom being about 2 inches longer than a T-Rex. Any suggestions???

Well, off to bed (going on 4 hrs a sleep a night for 3 nights now due to the marathon build session ;-) )

I'm going to the Great Planes E-Fest tomorrow in Champaign IL.


Thanks again.


Dave




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/9/2008 6:04:03 PM)

:) enjoy the show. It does sound like balance issues. I'd also double check the tail linkages, but it sounds like your flying buddy is giving you good advice. Congrats on the maiden!




RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/13/2008 5:44:01 AM)

Hey guys.

I have not had the MT in the air for the second outing yet (Chicagoland winters are brutal) but plan to bring it to the gym again this Fri. I've got the new training gear ready. Hopefully it's not too heavy or long (the original set I had made for the Honey Bee King was too long and the carbon fiber rods too small in diameter). It was suggested that I use .210" OD tube.

In addition, I'm still looking for a few things...

- Hard case that the mini-Titan & radio will fit in, from USA dealer (saw a couple on the net but they were $100.00+)
- Blade balancer (hoping to find one sensitive enough to balance tail blades as well as main blades)
- Gram scale with .01g resolution to weigh the blades (prefer to spend less than $50.00)

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the above items? What do you guys like?


Lastly, I haven't found the cause of the tiny tail vibration yet (no space to fly anyway) so just wanted to ask you pro's if I'll do any damage by flying a few flights with the vibration? I did however spool it up in the bedroom and just worked the tail linkage back and forth to see if it would help loosen the slight binding at the extreme inner end.


Thanks guys.

Dave




redvtr1000 -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/13/2008 10:37:45 PM)

David,

Been off my feet and not paying attention to much in this thread. I developed some form of tendon problem in my left foot, a direct result of standing around the field on the weekends in crappy shoes. Probably should have skimped a week on heli funds and got some better shoes but oh well.

Here's my thoughts...

Hard case. I don't have a suggestion for you on this one. I have seen a few out there but can't comment on quality. I use a dual tx aluminum case for my dx7 that I snagged from Tower. Cut it out and just holds my dx7, but its the only tx I will ever really need (for a while anyway).

Blade balancer.... I don't see any point in buying a 120.00 balancer. There are a couple models in that price range out there but you should be able to accomplish everything you need with much less. I know a few guys that fly way better than I can and use the shaft/cups trick.
Personally, I have three different balancers. For your situation, I would reccomend the helimax balancer (even though I cringe a bit while doing so). Its a pretty good balancer for leaving on your bench at home, take it with you a good bit and it will likely break. For the price, it does every blade big or small without worry if it will fit the root on these small blades. Avoid the dubro balancer (the one that doesn't use magnets) at all costs, true pos.

Gram scale for weighing the blades....

Truthfully, I haven't really been weighing my blades that often. But, I would check Staples and office depot on this for a mail scale. Alternatively, I don't know what you have for gas stations or "tobacco smoking accessory" stores in your area. Few of the gas stations around here and all of those adult novelty stores carry decent gram scales at cheaper prices. I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on this.

As far as the tail situation. I haven't had any noticeable vibrations caused by my tail. I run K&B tail blades, nice colors. I chipped one a week or two back and still couldn't see a vibe when I know they were out of balance. I would think your vibe problem is coming from somewhere else. If you pull the main blades and spin it up a bit and the vibe is gone, probably your mains. If it remains, try putting a piece of tape on one of the tail blades and spin it again. If it got worse, try the other blade. Better? try more tape on the same blade.
Experiment with a piece or two and see if you can make it go away. I suppose the scale takes the weight out of the question and makes the tape process mostly obsolete.

You mention binding on the extreme inner end. You mean as the slider approaches the tail case, maybe 2mm before it gets to the end of its mech. travel, it will bind up? Mine does this and I keep it free and moving by adding a drop or two of machine oil before I go out to fly.
If I let it get dry, it will lose that last little bit of travel. Remove the pushrod and operate the slider up and down the shaft with some lube to help free it up, this should help as long as the problem is with the slider and not with your gyro's limit.

Are you running the stock blades? I can understand them being fairly out of balance and causing the vibe, I would look there first. Especially if your setup is all new and uncrashed.

As far as the elevator servo goes, personally, I would remove the grommet and metal bit. I would shim that servo forward as I described in an earlier post. You might not notice the difference with the rubber in there but I think hard mounting it would be the easiest thing to do and that servo won't ever develop slop in the mount if the rubber wears over time.




cactus hopper -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/13/2008 10:44:33 PM)

If you have a Big Lots store where you are I got a real nice digital scale there for $12.00.




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/14/2008 3:52:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: redvtr1000
Been off my feet and not paying attention to much in this thread. I developed some form of tendon problem in my left foot, a direct result of standing around the field on the weekends in crappy shoes. Probably should have skimped a week on heli funds and got some better shoes but oh well.

Hope you're feeling much better, redvtr.

quote:

ORIGINAL: redvtr1000
Blade balancer.... I don't see any point in buying a 120.00 balancer. There are a couple models in that price range out there but you should be able to accomplish everything you need with much less. I know a few guys that fly way better than I can and use the shaft/cups trick.
Personally, I have three different balancers. For your situation, I would reccomend the helimax balancer (even though I cringe a bit while doing so). Its a pretty good balancer for leaving on your bench at home, take it with you a good bit and it will likely break. For the price, it does every blade big or small without worry if it will fit the root on these small blades. Avoid the dubro balancer (the one that doesn't use magnets) at all costs, true pos.

I have the Helimax balancer, and if you don't mind I'll disagree with you here; it's a POS too. Once you trim it, if you don't put the legs/red end pieces back in exactly the same alignment when you've mounted the blades on it it will throw off the trim and your balance will be bad.

I'd suggest balancing the blade mass and spanwise CG using a scale, and if your head isn't balanced, then mount them on the head, remove the spur/tail drive gears from the shaft, mount the heli on its side and balance the whole thing mounted in the main bearings of the heli. I haven't had to go that far with mine- balancing the blades to each other has been sufficient. That's one of the reasons I like the Titan so much :).

I bought my scales from helidirect.





RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/15/2008 6:10:29 AM)

Thanks redvtr cactus and oster. I bought a small 2 1/2 " x 3 1/2" scale for $13.00 that measures down to .1 gram (500g limit though). Now I just have to find a larger one that has at least 1/10 gram resolution for weighing larger parts.

I think I might pass on the Helimax blade balancer and put the money on a better one.


One of the other ones I've been looking at is the K&S model here:

<http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_info.php/products_id/9470>


however they seem out of stock all over and possibly replaced by:

<http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=KSJ1470>


OR, I could just try this at much less cost:

<http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=1937>


I really want to balance my tail blades as well as main blades (heli has a slight tail vibration) as accurately as possible. And YES, red, the tail slider is binding on the extreme inner end (which is what I thought might be causing the vibration) so I can add oil each time I fly like you did but I'd rather find a long term solution.

For the vibration though, this bird is BRAND NEW and has only seen 2 battery packs so maybe after I fly 2-3 more packs to "break it in" tomorrow, the heli will "settle" a bit more and the vibration will go away (or at least be less).


Dave

PS, does anyone here use a DX7 radio with their MT? I have some questions about expo settings.




RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/16/2008 6:13:39 AM)

Just wanted to give you guys an update...

My MT seems to be flying great! This is only the second time I've flown it (any collective pitch heli actually) and was able to fly 3 packs.

Trying to hover in one spot is HARD but it's A BLAST!!! It's hard to focus on the tail while concentrating on hovering but when I did glance at the tail I really didn't see the vibration I originally saw when my local mentor flew it so either it's gone or it's much less and doesn't happen at all RPM's The only thing that was vibrating was the bottom of the plastic tail fin.

I did get a MAJOR "shake" going when I spooled up too fast came off the ground but putting her back down and then starting over while raising the throttle SLOWLY cured that. (Note to self... DON'T RAISE THROTTLE TOO FAST)

I'm still going to get some kind of blade balancer though as sooner or later I WILL need it. I have 2 sets of Align blades and I have a feeling they are not balanced. I also ordered the new aluminum body mounts, spacers for using T-Rex blades and 1 set of replacement TT tail blades so "when" I trash the originals I have a spare set.

I do recall some of you using other MFR's tail blades. Are any of them better than the OEM version?

Well, off to search for a hard case that will fit this awesome bird.

Hope I'm not boring you guys but I'm pretty dang excited! Tomorrow night I'll be flying it in the local golf dome for the first time :-)


Dave D.




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/16/2008 6:34:23 AM)

So glad you're having fun with it, Dave. If you're using the Align woodies, you're in good shape- I can't think of a better blade to for hovering/cruising practice. They have a decent shape and they're cheap as heck for when you whack them. you'll want something stiffer later, I expect, but not necessary right now.

I had a premature takeoff playing around a bit ago, landing on a 4ft circular table then taking off again with one of my MX450s. Did it several times, then on another takeoff the mains got out of alignment spooling up- normal and not a problem on the ground, but the vibration duckwalked the heli off the side of the table. I had to take off with almost no tail control to keep from just falling. I got it down but it was a bit of excitement :).




RC David -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/20/2008 7:38:15 AM)

Well... It had to happen sooner or later.

I had a litte "accident" last Sat night flying my mini-Titan for only the 6th time. After hovering tail in for 2 packs, the 3rd pack I thought I'd try bringing it around from tail in to nose in. BAD IDEA!!! I tipped it from about 18 inches off the ground. Cracked a main blade, snapped the landing skid base and both base mounts on the frame.

I felt a little better though when my teacher said I improved quite a bit since the last week.

-------------------------------UPDATE------------------------------

The frame mounts are now repaired using J-B Weld. New skids are on. New white 325mm Align woodies I bought as spares are on. I hear they "might" be 1-2 degrees +/- from what the OEM woodies are and I might have to adjust the radio trims to account for that. Have any of you noticed the pitch difference

I also have some black Align woodies. Not sure if color is the only difference. Also picked up a new OEM blade set and an extra set of collar weights from the LHS to see if 4 weights on the flybar is better than 2 for me.

We'll see.

Oh, and Oster, be careful with that MX450 ;-)



Dave D.

Motto of the day... DON'T RUSH YOURSELF TOO FAST WHEN LEARNING!!!




jnich -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/20/2008 1:23:41 PM)

I was wondering - ignoring cost and noise - what are the pros/cons of having mini titan v. tres 450 new se v2. people say that it is more stable - what makes it so?




osterizer -> RE: Mini Titan thread (2/21/2008 4:07:14 AM)

I don't think the MT is more stable, per se. It is a more compact design along the roll axis than the "classic" stacked frame helis, so its control response is more direct, which just makes it more predictable, and yes, easier to fly.

Pros and cons I don't want to get into, really- there are enough religious wars about my heli is better than yours -but the MT has just impressed the heck out of me and the folks I know that have bought it. I was on the edge of buying a v2 TRex, but tried the MT instead and I'm a total fan. Others I know who have various versions of TRex have tried it, and all compare the MT favorably to the TR. When the MT costs a fraction of what the TRex does, flies well, and is easier to maintain....




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