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RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/5/2008 3:42:56 PM   
patatchim


 

Posts: 69
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: pt, PORTUGAL
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@Friday_2006

The e-logger is well worth the money, if you like eletric r/c it´s very useful. Knowing how much current you´re pulling, how low the voltage drops, temps and rpms, etc... very nice tool

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Mini titan, pico-z, mosquito | Tl-01b (bonzer edition :X) | Rc18b (bl and lipo) | Xray m18mt (bl and lipo)

(in reply to Friday_2006)
       Post #: 426

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/5/2008 4:06:46 PM   
osterizer


 

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From: Sykesville, MD, USA
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Ha, anyone who's read any of my posts knows I like the Castle ESCs, but the Hyperion has a switching BEC built in - a very nice feature that's made me want to try one. Haven't gotten around to it, though.

Nice setup you list (all the standard reservations about the Ripper motor notwithstanding) and one I'd expect to be pretty sharp. If you're still running the Align woodies, that can slow it up some. They're not the sharpest blades in the world, which is one of the reasons they're good for learning with. Head speed should be plenty with the Ripper and 13T if you have the throttle curves up in the 80-90% range, and the Evo 25s will deliver all the power you need.

Only other thing I'd think to look at is the cyclic pitch range. You already set the collective pitch if it's flying , but the cyclic pitch is the deflection from moving the cyclic. Usually it's set by just setting the ail and ele travels to the max they will do without binding, but if you want to be more precise, then

1- power the radio and the heli
2- put it in throttle hold and move the collective to zero collective pitch
3- give it full up elevator, and then while you hold that unplug the heli so the servos will stay in that position
4- align the flybar parallel to the boom and level, and then measure the pitch of the blades.
5- measure the aileron pitch the same way, only give it full deflection left or right, and when you measure the pitch, the blades should be parallel to the boom, not the flybar.

Generally, something like 7 or 8 degrees of cyclic is good. Much more can cause mechanical problems without attentive flying; less won't give you a lot of cyclic response. If your servo travels and such are set up right, then you adjust the cyclic range by changing the CCPM volumes in the transmitter.

(in reply to Friday_2006)
       Post #: 427

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/5/2008 7:45:01 PM   
Crossfade


 

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Joined: 1/13/2008
From: Carolina Beach, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossfade

I just got my Thro Hold pitch curve setup, cuz i'm gonna start practicing autos on my MT 325, But i can only get -5 degrees of pitch ? Will putting longer servo horns on my 2 side cyclic servos give me more - ? The horns that are on it are kinda short, I can get +11 degrees but i can't go no lower then -5.



Last question on Thro Hold, In my DX7 menu under Thro Hold - Hold Pos = -5.0%, Thats the lowest position where my motor stops running, that is where i want it at is'nt it ? Motor not spining ?

Just tring to make sure so i don't destroy my heli

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       Post #: 428

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/5/2008 8:43:51 PM   
osterizer


 

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From: Sykesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossfade

Last question on Thro Hold, In my DX7 menu under Thro Hold - Hold Pos = -5.0%, Thats the lowest position where my motor stops running, that is where i want it at is'nt it ? Motor not spining ?


Yep .



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       Post #: 429

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/5/2008 10:14:40 PM   
Friday_2006


 

Posts: 180
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From: Athens, GREECE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osterizer

Ha, anyone who's read any of my posts knows I like the Castle ESCs, but the Hyperion has a switching BEC built in - a very nice feature that's made me want to try one. Haven't gotten around to it, though.


From every picture i ve seen, from both of them, i can't see them to have cooler fins as the stock esc has. Will there be any overheating to those too from your experience ?

quote:

If you're still running the Align woodies, that can slow it up some. They're not the sharpest blades in the world, which is one of the reasons they're good for learning with.


Those align woodies saved me the bucks !!!! From 3 crashes they were the only thing that broke. A friend of mine who has a T-Rex 450 with CF Align Blades after each crash he has to change the main shaft as well. So Align woodies is a must for me at the time beeing, as i am still in the learning process and a crash can occur anytime.

quote:

Head speed should be plenty with the Ripper and 13T if you have the throttle curves up in the 80-90% range, and the Evo 25s will deliver all the power you need.


Throttle curve : 0-40-60-71,5-82-92,5-100
Pitch Curve : 26-INH-INH-62-INH-INH-91
Pitch : -2 +5 +10

As i don't have a tachometer i don't know what headspead i am getting. I also fly with the stock esc setup. I haven't changed anything

quote:

1- power the radio and the heli
2- put it in throttle hold and move the collective to zero collective pitch
3- give it full up elevator, and then while you hold that unplug the heli so the servos will stay in that position
4- align the flybar parallel to the boom and level, and then measure the pitch of the blades.
5- measure the aileron pitch the same way, only give it full deflection left or right, and when you measure the pitch, the blades should be parallel to the boom, not the flybar.

Generally, something like 7 or 8 degrees of cyclic is good. Much more can cause mechanical problems without attentive flying; less won't give you a lot of cyclic response. If your servo travels and such are set up right, then you adjust the cyclic range by changing the CCPM volumes in the transmitter.


I think this is what i have to check next. I ll do it tommorow and i ll get back with info after doing a flight check.



(in reply to osterizer)
       Post #: 430

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 4:04:10 AM   
osterizer


 

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From: Sykesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
From every picture i ve seen, from both of them, i can't see them to have cooler fins as the stock esc has. Will there be any overheating to those too from your experience ?


Not from what I've seen. To be honest, the ESCs that have big impressive heat sinks seem to be the ones that need them . The Castles run cool as long as the rest of the heli is working right, and you don't overload the BEC. If you have a strong setup of servos and gyro, you should put a good external BEC on and not use the built-in one. That's what's intriguing about the Hyperion- it shouldn't need the external BEC.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Those align woodies saved me the bucks !!!! From 3 crashes they were the only thing that broke. A friend of mine who has a T-Rex 450 with CF Align Blades after each crash he has to change the main shaft as well. So Align woodies is a must for me at the time beeing, as i am still in the learning process and a crash can occur anytime.


No doubt- one of the biggest money pits is going to FG or CF blades when you're still crashing them. The woodies are a great choice when you're regularly trashing blades- they're cheap, and as you note, they keep other things from breaking, too. They're just not going to give you the sharp response you'll get from a stiffer, smoother blade.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Throttle curve : 0-40-60-71,5-82-92,5-100
Pitch Curve : 26-INH-INH-62-INH-INH-91
Pitch : -2 +5 +10

As i don't have a tachometer i don't know what headspead i am getting. I also fly with the stock esc setup. I haven't changed anything


With the woodies you're probably somewhere between 2700 and 2900 at 90% throttle and light load, a lot more than I would put on them. You might want to back off to an 11 or 12T pinion. A tachometer is a very good thing to have.

Your curves look like you're flying an "old style" right-side-up setup where hover is around mid-stick. There's nothing necessarily wrong with that if you're comfortable with it, but it's not the way the radio's programmed and you're going to have to re-learn a few things when you want to move to more aggressive flight. If you want to simplify things, then create a linear pitch curve (0-inh-inh-50-inh-inh-100) and use that to set your mid-stick pitch to zero and your max collective pitch range to +/- 11 or so. Once that's done, set your normal pitch curve to 40-50-100, and throttle to 0-inh-70-80-87-94-100. Be careful when you first fly it since it's different, but it will be more linear and responsive.

You're going to want positive and negative pitch for aerobatics, so you'll have a similar curve to the above on the left in idle-up when you first start with it. Getting used to it now isn't a bad thing, and the radio programming will be easier.


< Message edited by osterizer -- 7/6/2008 4:05:10 AM >

(in reply to Friday_2006)
       Post #: 431

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 8:54:30 AM   
Friday_2006


 

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From: Athens, GREECE
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osterizer

With the woodies you're probably somewhere between 2700 and 2900 at 90% throttle and light load, a lot more than I would put on them. You might want to back off to an 11 or 12T pinion. A tachometer is a very good thing to have.


Do you think that by going to an 11t or 12t pinion and putting on CF Blades would get me a couple of minutes more flight time ?

I am now getting for each of my batteries

1. 2000 => 7,30min
2. 2200 => 8,30min
3. 2500 => 10,00min

I guess that if i get E-Logger i wouldn't need a tachometer, is that right ?

quote:

Your curves look like you're flying an "old style" right-side-up setup


Can you give a further explanation on that "old style" ??

Do you have any link that i can read and understand everything about curves and how they affect flight characteristics ???

Thanks Oster you ve been really helpful

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       Post #: 432

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 5:35:09 PM   
redbaron9898


 

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I am running align fiber blades (not CF)
What should my head speed be?

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       Post #: 433

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 6:25:33 PM   
osterizer


 

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From: Sykesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Do you think that by going to an 11t or 12t pinion and putting on CF Blades would get me a couple of minutes more flight time ?

I am now getting for each of my batteries

1. 2000 => 7,30min
2. 2200 => 8,30min
3. 2500 => 10,00min

I guess that if i get E-Logger i wouldn't need a tachometer, is that right ?


Those aren't bad flight times if you're doing 80%. You might get a little more from CF blades (seconds, not minutes), but pulling the head speed back a bit will definitely lengthen the flights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Can you give a further explanation on that "old style" ??


I hope I'm not offending anyone by calling them that, but I think the "hover at mid pitch" was a style that originated with flying styles that didn't include flying upside down. First, making sure I was reading right, that you had 5 degrees positive at mid pitch, and a pretty linear curve from -2 to positive 10?

Proceeding from that- there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that for flying normal, right side up. It gives you full use of the collective, and if you've gotten the throttle curves so you like them and you're comfortable, then more power to ya.

The other side is that it's different from the way you'll set it up for aerobatics if you decide to go for that- for aero you'll need to include the other half of the pitch range (down to -10 in this example), which will make the upright collective positions move to a different place on the stick. You'll want to move it, too, since you want to be pretty close to the same between normal and idle-up modes when you switch between them.

For aero modes, if you're not using governor, you'll probably want to use a V throttle curve, where the center position is at your target HS at zero pitch, and the left and right sides curve up to maintain that RPM as pitch increases, positive or negative. Example 5 point V is simply 100-90-80-90-100.

Setting up pitch to match, then, becomes equally simple, as I described earlier- adjust the head to get everything level and zero pitch at mid-stick/50% on a linear curve, and set the pitch range to +/-10. With that setup, your normal pitch curve is as I said, 40-50-100, and throttle something like 0-70-80-90-100 (I'll let you calculate the points for 7 point curves ).

Remember you can adjust the curves a bit so they match what you like. These are just starting points, but good ones.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Do you have any link that i can read and understand everything about curves and how they affect flight characteristics ???


Welcome . Finless Bob's area on HeliFreak has a lot of video and tutorial info that he's put a lot of time into, and they're good stuff. There's a lot of stuff on trextuning.com, too- not so much setup but rather a broad set of info on helis. The latter is TRex oriented, but shhh, don't tell anyone, but these guys are almost all very similar mechanically , so you can learn about one and use a lot of that info with the others.


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       Post #: 434

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 7:37:08 PM   
Friday_2006


 

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From: Athens, GREECE
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quote:

Those aren't bad flight times if you're doing 80%. You might get a little more from CF blades (seconds, not minutes), but pulling the head speed back a bit will definitely lengthen the flights.


Now you are getting me backwards !!!! Actually flight times is something that has two personalities. When i was trying to learn how to hover, actually more struggling than trying to learn, minutes seemed like ages. Now that i hover without trying minutes pass by so fast...! I guess though that i can't have both flight times and high headspeeds

quote:

(I'll let you calculate the points for 7 point curves ).


Thats easy man ! lol

As you might have seen i made another post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7698882/tm.htm

I would be interested to your opinion of the setup i am thinking on and any incompatibilities you may see.

(in reply to osterizer)
       Post #: 435

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/6/2008 10:47:38 PM   
osterizer


 

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From: Sykesville, MD, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Now you are getting me backwards !!!! Actually flight times is something that has two personalities. When i was trying to learn how to hover, actually more struggling than trying to learn, minutes seemed like ages. Now that i hover without trying minutes pass by so fast...! I guess though that i can't have both flight times and high headspeeds


That's pretty much the way it goes- I seem to recall the power consumption increases with the square of the velocity, but don't take that to the bank, it's been a while. The takeaway is that pumping them up past 2700 or so takes increasing gobs of power . Mine flies for up to 11 minutes on 4S/1500s at 2450 or 2500. It flies for 6 or less at 3200.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Friday_2006
Thats easy man ! lol

As you might have seen i made another post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7698882/tm.htm

I would be interested to your opinion of the setup i am thinking on and any incompatibilities you may see.


I know it's easy. I'm lazy. Pleeztameetcha .

I don't know much about the components you listed in the other post, but I would shy away from a 4000 kV motor unless you're going to be running 2S and a billion Amp speed controller. For scale you're going to want to keep the head speed down, and it will be pretty hard to gear that far down- you'll wind up reducing your power curves and stuff will be heating up, especially inside a closed scale body. I'd be looking for something in the 2700 to 3000 kV range, myself.


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       Post #: 436

RE: Mini Titan thread - 7/7/2008 6:42:57 AM   
Friday_2006


 

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As for the EXI 450 motor, i ve changed that to this Motor

and as for the esc i bought 2 of these to put in mini titan too :ESC

(in reply to osterizer)