RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme??  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Crash & Rebuild >> RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme??
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RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 10/29/2007 3:14:21 PM   
stinger40



Posts: 661
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Grayson, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RC MANIAC119


quote:

ORIGINAL: edh13

Hey I asked for opinions and all are welcome.


RC maniac – Uh…. I’m I to believe that I’m being admonished for a lack of manners by a member of the Profile Brotherhood? Crazy World….

1) No spotters are required for sport flying and are rarely used. I don’t know if the P-40 guy had one, if he did it didn’t help.
2) Yes…
A and B are the same thing and don’t deserve a response.


In your hurry to accuse, you skipped the part where it said I came down to his end of the pits to offer some words of concern over his loss of a nice P-40. I didn’t think I would need to defend my character either, until "RC manners119" piped in.



I was not admonishing anyone .........you ask for an opinion and I gave mine, and by the way.......if you have ever flown with ANY PROBRO's.....you'll find them to be the friendliest, most courteous, and quite probably the highest skilled pilots on any field!!

Once again, I was not accusing you of anything........just stating the facts as you wrote them.

And finally, I do apologize for missing the part where you walked down there. It was a rather confusing explanation of the facts...pilot A did this....Pilot B did that..........it was a litle hard to understand.


Good Luck with your re-build


I hate to break this to ya, but anybody can 3D a profile.

_____________________________

Gravity is a terrible, terrible thing.

(in reply to RC MANIAC119)
       Post #: 76

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 10/29/2007 6:54:26 PM   
RC MANIAC119


 

Posts: 571
Joined: 11/3/2003
From: muskegon, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Stinger.......why do you want to open that can of worms?

I won't tell you how many students I've trained, that have flown for many years, and still can't 3d a profile.......and I won't go near your implied remark that Profiles are so easy to fly even for an unskilled person...........

So I think it's best if we just leave this alone.........



< Message edited by Robby -- 10/29/2007 7:14:24 PM >

_____________________________

RC MANIAC-PRO BRO 1900-AMA# 95841

(in reply to stinger40)
       Post #: 77

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/13/2007 1:58:48 PM   
rambo


 

Posts: 86
Joined: 11/24/2002
From: KY
Status: offline 		Well for my 2 cents worth, i am a victim of midair as anyone who flies in events will eventually be.Mine happened on a warm sunday funfly event complete with news crew etc.I just launched my great planes pitts special and flew for about 3 minutes and turned left at end of pattern to start doing more aerobatics, (absolutely we do not do aerobatics over runway), anyways i kicked on my smoke & just proceded to do a roll when out of nowhere came a senior telemaster that had been lumbering around the airspace at 1/2 everyone elses speed & for insanely long periods of time as i guess it had a rather large fuel tank.My point is this do i get mad and blame the tele guy for operating a slow low performance plane in a high speed very aerobatic airspace? Or do i get mad and say he was hogging up the airspace by flying so long at a time?Lastly does he get mad at me fot hitting his aircraft as i technically did turn into his flight path? Well let me say we were both stunned but helped each other and shook our heads and wondered how it happened.Well the only thing good about it all was i have a great video of the crash.Later gentlemen.

(in reply to JPMacG)
       Post #: 78

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/13/2007 7:48:46 PM   
andernamen


 

Posts: 221
Joined: 9/29/2005
From: Virginia Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, this has been beat to death...but what the heck. I have a Top Flite P-40 and a Kaos ARF. You can't even compare the two planes. P-40 guy definitely got the raw end of the deal. But I have flown my Kaos around away from the runway and annoyed quite a few other fliers, not intentionally. It is just a fast plane. There is no way to know exactly where everyone else is at any given time without risking losing your plane. You were definitely not at fault...just bad luck. Whenever you fly, you run the risk of losing it all...I've seen turbine planes go down at a total loss. Every crash is avoidable....but do we really need the kind of draconian rules that would have to be followed to do this. First year of flying only on buddy box with instructor, complete airframe, engine and radio examination before every flight, battery certifications....blah blah blah. This hobby is supposed to be fun!! Every flier knows the risks. Buy a new plane and go out to the same field and scr@w those other guys!!

< Message edited by andernamen -- 11/14/2007 7:01:34 PM >

(in reply to rambo)
       Post #: 79

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/20/2007 12:56:31 PM   
wingnutagencies


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: durban, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		hey guys

hello from Durban, South Africa!

very interesting situation (mid-airs.... who is to blame?)

i have flows on a few site around the country and mid-airs seem to just happen. i also fly combat on the slopes where we use EPP gliders and actually try hit each other. IT IS NOT AS EASY AS IT SEEMS EVEN AT A 80ft RANGE.

i myself have had one mid air and felt sick no matter whose fault. a downed aircraft is a loss no matter what.

we have guys who like large scale aerobatics and pattern and they generally stay far from the runway and the others go mad over the runway.
as a matter of respect to each other we try not have more than 3 planes in the air at a time and if a jet or specialised plane (a.k.a. $$$$$) takes off we land ASAP.

guys - its a risk no matter what and you can debate who was up first or who was not a full memeber and who changed course all day long......... *@#$@#*^ happens.

the good thing is we must learn from mistakes and need to be more cautious in protecting our toys and communicate more.

ITS NICE TO SEE THAT SOMEONE WAS FEELING SO BAD THAT THEY PUT THEIR NAME ON THE FORUM AND STARTED ASKING THE QUESTION.

good luck all!!

(in reply to JPMacG)
       Post #: 80

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/23/2007 12:53:30 AM   
wylieruneyjr


 

Posts: 78
Joined: 11/4/2006
From: McClellanville, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Well Enough has been said about proper pattern flying and who,s at fault. End result both planes did suffer damage . No one is at fault. But I find that most people seem to side with the guy who kit built his plane vs, a ARF. Or the more expensive of two planes , or who,s been in the air first. The better pilot . Member vs, non member ect... It,s a shame cause no matter whats said or done , both pilots suffered a lose. You did the best thing possible by taking time to go down there with the other fliers and not getting upset throwing your radio down kicking dirt and showing your as sss . I have witness all the above. The other pilot was as nice as to be expected, and no more. Yes some of his freinds feel you caused the crash, but not so. The fact that there was not any heated exchange of words, and finger pointing, shows that the whole situation was handle by two gentleman. The fact that you have a concience about this occurance shows that you are a careing up standing person who has had a humbling experance. Just means you are normal. Man I love to fly my Kaos, one of the best altime airframes ever. Andy

(in reply to wingnutagencies)
       Post #: 81

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/23/2007 6:15:45 AM   
fozjared


 

Posts: 544
Joined: 7/1/2007
From: gilmer/nacogdoches, TX, USA
Status: offline 		i had my first mid air 2 weeks ago with the club president, i was flying my homemade electric sailplane and he was flying some zippy little freakish looking plane made from meat tray foam just an electric plane with elev-ons (sp?) cheap little thing that he has a blast with! it is real fast and mine is extremely slow so he was just running circles around me out there and his prop cut my horizontal stabilizer off, the glider somehow went inverted and floated down under throttle and didn't hurt it any further! we both just died laughing along with everyone else, he brought his in and landed it but i had to do a few repairs to mine but i could tell he genuinely felt bad, i am a poor college student and he is a fairly well off elderly gentleman so i could tell he felt bad about it so i did my best to repair it quickly and get it back up so he could see that it was no big deal.. and i did, and he seemed to feel a little better, but he still kept apologizing and trying to help.. anyway, this crash was mostly his fault imho bc he was trying to see how many loops he could do around me and i was just floating around, but that is the risk i took, i knew what he was doing and i just kept flying and laughing when he got close so i prodded him along so i cannot place the blame with him therefore i had no hard feelings and we laughed it off.. moral of the story, if you dont like how someone is flying while your plane is in the air, just land! he is a seasoned combat pilot and i have never seen him hit anyone even when they were zipping around one another during combat so sometimes it just happens even when it is someone you know flies well.. most times if someone has a more expensive plane than me (most of the time, haha) i just land and get out of the way!

in your case, no one at fault, it just happens!

(in reply to hugo111)
       Post #: 82

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 11/23/2007 9:04:21 PM   
Ed_Moorman



Posts: 3684
Joined: 1/5/2002
From: Shalimar, FL, USA
Status: offline 		In my opinion, mid airs are no fault. I don't think anyone goes out to purposely hit someone. Trying to assign blame is idiotic.

In all my years of flying, I have probably had a dozen mid airs. Most of the time there were only 2 of us in the air. Some were where we were chasing each other around the sky. I seem to relax and get more careless when there is only one other plane up. When there are 3 or 4 planes up, I get real careful.

If someone is doing a lot of vertical acro, I tend to steer clear of where he is flying. I would hope he does the same for me. It's only common sense, don't fly through another plane's maneuvers. Of course I have seen scale fliers who think they own the sky when they put their plane up.

NO FAULT. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

_____________________________

Ed Moorman, AMA 553, KD4QBM, Revver Bro #156
R/C Report Magazine, Fun Aerobatics Column

(in reply to fozjared)
       Post #: 83

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 1/6/2008 2:39:11 AM   
vegas mossie



Posts: 342
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Lovelock, NV, USA
Status: offline 		myself, and two friends, used to chase each other around on purpose. at those speeds and distances, it is almost impossible to get close to another plane. two planes occupying the same space at the same time is a freak act of nature. try it on a slow day with your trainers, you'll see what i mean. mid-airs happen, its part of the sport. people should accept this or not fly. like my instructor used to say, "if you can't afford to crash it, don't fly it" (in three years of flying, my friends and i never had a mid-air)

_____________________________

Right!!!... No Left!!!... #!!*#$!

(in reply to Ed_Moorman)
       Post #: 84

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 1/17/2008 2:39:20 PM   
Spoiler



Posts: 321
Joined: 6/5/2003
From: Cape TownWestern Cape, SOUTH AFRICA
Status: offline 		A few years back a friend and I did the chase thing - Uproar v Magic Extra. I managed to slice a portion of his stab with my prop at quite high range. No serious harm done as both landed safely a while later, so its not as hard as you think.

I analysed my last mid air a bit. I joined another pilots pattern without announcing myself as I was joining the preferred patternI was nowhere near him, but he likes to fly fast with minimal throttle control and he suddenly rolled and pulled a split S straight into me as I flew by in the same direction he had been going but far below him.. Really bad luck. He was fond of his plane which was a kit built 4 star 40 but cost nowhere near as much as my 40 size Cap with a scale coulour scheme with custom painted cowl, but it usually works that way....

(in reply to vegas mossie)
       Post #: 85

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 1/19/2008 12:01:18 AM   
PA BEN


 

Posts: 323
Joined: 12/2/2005
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wc524

I would agree with Brad that you were at fault. Only because you were the one that incurred the damage by pulling vertical. Had you stayed on your straight flight path the two would not have collided. Either way in-air collisions do happen, but what can be avoided should. Use a spotter next time and learn from this mistake. We ALL make them, whether it's crashes or radio mistakes.

Wow, a mid air. Lets see, two planes in the air. Both are screwing around in the air. A nice P-40 goes up. He takes the chance. When I fly I watch my plane, if I take my eye off my plane, I might crash my plane. It was a mid air for crying out loud. It happens.

(in reply to wc524)
       Post #: 86

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 2/3/2008 3:13:02 AM   
Silver Flyer


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 7/6/2004
From: Valdosta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		A friend of mine that has crashed many large and small airplanes and probably has had a few midairs once said after one of his many crashes "ITS JUST A TOY AIRPLANE" What a great attitude. I have had three midairs in 30+ years, two with the same friend and one with another friend, all while we were the only ones flying! Nobody to blame.

(in reply to JPMacG)
       Post #: 87

RE: Mid-air this weekend. Anyone to balme?? - 2/3/2008 1:23:36 PM   
PA BEN


 

Posts: 323
Joined: 12/2/2005
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Status: offline 		Unless the other guy tried to take out the other plane, it's no fault. If a guy cries about an accident and blames the other guy, he's just a cry baby and should find a life. If you don't want a mid air, don't fly with other planes in the air.

(in reply to Silver Flyer)