hezik
Posts: 613
Score: 109
Joined: 8/27/2006
Last Login: 10/28/2012
From: VleutenUtrecht, NETHERLANDS
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ORIGINAL: BHolsten
That is not completely true! 
Say What? I don't know if you were responding to my message, but what I posted is entirely true. Fliton did not respon in any way.
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vsilva contacted me many times via my email and through RC-U and I forwarded the emails and even had several conversations about the emails to specific factory people. As a Fliton Rep & Team pilot vsilva did get help from me as much as I could do for him. 
who's vsilva? I'm talking about a dutch friend of mine who also got stuck with a lead fliton element 170, and he mailed fliton about it and got NO response at all.
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So,.. to say no one from Fliton did not respond is not completely accurate,...perhaps not the right people responded. Let's not smack all the fliton people in the face by saying "no one responded" it's an unfair statement.
It is 100% accurate, no-one at fliton bothered to reply, not even a 'we got your email' message.
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vsilva,...many apologies it not getting your problem taken care of. I will speak with a fliton dealer to see if you can get any help.
Would you be willing to do the same for another poor slob who got a heavy version?
Wether or not ALL elements are to heavy is besides the point. The way the situation is now, is that if you buy one, you risk the chance of getting a heavy version without any way to exchange it. I hope Fliton will realise this is a really bad situation and will try to make a little bit more effort to get happy customers. Right now I don't think anyone in the dutch F3A scene will buy a Fliton, based upon the current experience. I know I won't and i am in the market for a ship like this..
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Hezik ... let's not assume it will be probably 500g overweight.
I'm not assuming anything, I have had the plane over here and weighted it, it IS about 500 grams or more overweight.
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I can talk about EF too, somehow let's be frank, people will tolerate the misgivings from EF, I have seen many on the net and experienced it myself with the EF Extra 300 and Yak54 EP versions. Same with the H9 Funtana 90 with its wing failures and the H9 Extra 260 with its delaminating UC. Both were super hot items but had that tendency to go bad.
I have seen several (like 10+) EF planes and they all lived up to the expectations. However they are maybe to light for gas engines or people who fly them full throttle in dives and stuff like that. However, whicheverway you look at it, I have never heard of an EF, Sebart or Oxai plane which comes out of the box 500 grams above specification.
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I own a Sebart too and let's be frank, they are built about as well as a Fliton and fly about as well too.
C'mon, this is simply not true. They're both made out of balsa and plywood, yeah, that's true, but that's about where the similarity stops. On the Element, Fliton has done nothing to reduce the weight, it's all massive wood. Compare:
to the inside of your fliton and then tell me they're constructed the same again 
One thing I do agree about with you, that's the fact that EF and Sebart are similar quality. This is not strange, since they come from the same factory.
However, both Sebart and EF use Oracover to cover their planes, a high grade quality covering. I don't know the brand of covering used on the Fliton, but do know it's not Oracover, it's the same crappy covering as Kyosho uses, for instance on their Calmato. If you were to put a fuel angine on your Element 170, you'll have to re-cover it with good covering in less than a year, the stuff that's on there when you buy it, will never stay on longer than that.
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However, the Sebarts are not cheap despite coming out from China. You will be surprised how much it costs to manufacture an EF or Sebart or any other branded ARF. So let's not start this I BELIEVE so and so is better. Heard it all and its the same thing. Sebarts and EF planes are not cheap, you pay a premium for them but then what are you really getting.
I'm not talking about 'heard'. I'm talking about having the actual experience, having handled the planes, and noted the difference in quality. It's there and clear to see for everyone who takes the trouble of looking. I'm not saying you're not paying extra for a brand name, but you're also getting a higher quality plane. There's 0% 'hearsay' in what I'm saying. As far as pricing goes, the picture above is a Sebart plance which comes out at the same price as the Fliton. Only downside is it's marginally smaller, it's 1m80 fuse length.
An even cheaper plane which is about 1kg lighter in total, is the E-Evolution (search for it at lindinger.at), it's not only cheaper, it comes with wingbags for wings and stabs. Ok, I think it's really an ugly plane, but it's affordable, light and flies well (again: no hearsay!).
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I got friends who have flown or seen Oxai planes, they are not that great for the price.
Now let's be Frank, there's no comparison between an Oxai plane and this Element, from any perspective. True, Oxai's are way to expensive and I wouldn't buy an Oxai as well, but let's not go and say the quality of an Oxai is comparable to this Element..
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That too is a fact. I believe the Element is not in full production yet. If it is and it does not live up to what they advertise, send it back to the LHS.
Wether or not it's in full production, doesn't matter. My friend bought one, no-one told him it's a 'not in full production' model and it does NOT live up to the promised weights, as stated, it's at least 500 grams too heavy. The LHS states he delivered the plane as was delivered to him by Fliton, which is totally true. Besides that, I don't know if you realise what the postage and packaging is on a plane this size. As a last remark: he bought it to fly contest with. If he were to send it back right now, he'd lose half the season.
Before we go there: lucky for him in the netherlands the beginner and novice class allow a plane to be heavier than 5kg.
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Let's see where Fliton goes with the Element and not jump up and down then only a couple of so called pre-sale planes have weight issues.
This is NOT a pre-sale plane and i'm NOT jumping because it's too heavy, I'm 'jumping' because Fliton doesn't do anything about it, not even a simple reply to an email.
To be honest, I DO like the Element, if it were on par weightwise. It's a good looking plane, looks good in the air and flies well as well. To me it was a huge dissapointment it was way too heavy and fliton doesn't respond to inquiries about this. I'm not expecting top-notch quality for the price, can live with the fact that it's engineered 'old school' with a lot of formers, thick balsa and nothing done to reduce weight. As you mentioned, it's really reasonable priced so one can't expect a rolls-royce. However, one should be able to expect something that is not at least 500 grams to heavy.
Reasons why this plane is too heavy:
1) too thick balsa was used to cover the wing and fuse. Also there's a lot of reasonably dark balsa in the fuse, which means it's not only thick, but heavy as well
2) there's simply too much wood in the construction: all steering surfaces are solid wood, everything on the inside is solid wood, there's way too many formers in the aft-section
3) the covering is cheap quality, thick and heavy. After a while the colorlayer will seperate from the top layer
4) too much glue was used to glue it together
My apologies if i come accross a little blunt, to me it was really dissapointing, since I had high hopes for this plane. Was originally planning to get one myself. Also I'm not English, Dutch is my native language.
< Message edited by hezik -- 4/10/2009 1:07 PM >
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Pattern Universe - RC Pattern Flying >> RC Pattern Flying >> RE: Fliton Element 170 
RE: Fliton Element 170 - 
I think your willingness to help shows your passion for the sport and your willingness to help another flyer. My hats off to you,...but you rarely get any results bashing a company or a product on an open forum. It usually will come back to haunt later on as/if you look for sponsors.