RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Control Horn)  
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RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/27/2007 5:17:13 PM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Bob, there is no place to run the safety wire. Safety wire instructions say to loop the wire through the eye and clevis end, etc, etc per that great link you provided. but with the flat wire soldered to one end and the screw through the eye on the other end - there is no place to run the safety wire. Just putting it through the center hole and wrapping it opposite to direction of rotation and then winding around end of turnbuckle occurred to me, but I don't think that would work - don't know. I do know if I epoxy the threads it's not going anyplace and the epoxy is easily broken with a microtorch if they needed adjustment. But do you not concur that using the Dubro HD clevis and threader coupler is a better looking and easier to manage setup?

< Message edited by splais -- 6/27/2007 5:19:52 PM >

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 26

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/27/2007 6:25:14 PM   
BobH


 

Posts: 4423
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: offline 		Steve yes I like the Dubro set up better. I think its' better looking. But if you did run the wire through the turnbuckle center and then one end I think it would be ok too. The wires won't rotate on their own. So what ends up happening is that the barrel of the turn buckle turns and unwinds one end. With the safety wire the body is prevented from turning.

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(in reply to splais)
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RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/28/2007 5:15:48 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		When I started measuring things I found that the angles and setup of the Pup wings were all out of wack. There was about an inch too much dihedral in the lower wing. In any event I got a good start on re-doing the flying cables with Proctor flat flying wires. They are very cool looking and will have no stretch in them at all.

I threw pic #1 in just for a good laugh - that's what a shop looks like when things get totally out of control!
Pic #2 is of the turnbuckle setup I decided not to use.
Pics #3 and #4 are what I am using
and pic #5 is just trying to figure it all out.

Doing the double flying wires is going to be a chore and requires me to make and install new tangs to fit the wider flat wire and Dubro clevis'.

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(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 28

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/28/2007 8:42:39 AM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5556
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		If that's the worst your "shop" ever gets, be thankful! That looks like my workbench on a GOOD day!

I think it's a very good thing that you decided to redo all the flying wires because only by doing this does this bird truly become your own. By doing this you will learn things about the model that you would never have known otherwise. And knowing all these things makes it much more likely to survive it's "second maiden" in one piece.

The new fittings look great.

< Message edited by abufletcher -- 6/28/2007 8:44:21 AM >

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 29

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/30/2007 5:23:44 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		This picture is of one new set of tangs and couplers I made for the flat wire using 26 gauge steel. the flat wire is 1/8" Proctor. I have completed all of one side and the landing wires on the other. I ran short on wire and had to order more. Making the wires has been quit easy actually; making them right has been a real chore. I worked nearly the entire day just to complete one side. It seems like every time I take apart and reassemble the wings the measurements come out differently. It has also been a difficult cutting the flat wire to the correct lengths. I must have soldered and desoldered some of the wires three or four times; but now that one side is done it looks very nice.

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(in reply to abufletcher)
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RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Con... - 6/30/2007 5:34:29 AM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5556
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: splais
It seems like every time I take apart and reassemble the wings the measurements come out differently.


Just keep in mind that you've not making the wires fit the wings but rather making the wings fit the wires. Well at least in spirit. The landing wires will end up setting the dihedral and the relative tension between the front and back wires can effect the wing incidence.


(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 31

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 6/30/2007 3:31:35 PM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		With the rigid flat wires it's pretty easy to tell when one is loose. But once the slack is out it is hard to tell if you have over-tensioned it. And yes, I have notice that a little too much tension warps the wing.

When I unhooked all the old wires and blocked up the plane and wings per BUSA instructions I found that the old wires were all out of wack. Now that i'm making new wires were the struts are already in place I think I am making the wires fit the wings.

BUSA says to lay out the fuselage and on a flat surface and level the fuselage so the leading and trailing edge of the wing are parallel to the surface and then block up the wing tips 2.5 inches, install the struts and upper wing, install the landing wires and then the flying wires, all firm, but not to tight, yada, yada, yada. It's the yada, yada, yada part that is goofy. I.e., there is a lot of play in things (wings moving back and forward, etc) with just small adjustments in the wires. BUSA doesn't call for it; but I don't see how you can do one of these without the strut support wires. I've found they help immensely in keeping the wing roots square to the fuselage. anyway it's coming along.

< Message edited by splais -- 7/1/2007 1:03:47 AM >

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RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 6/30/2007 10:35:19 PM   
puplover


 

Posts: 67
Joined: 2/4/2007
From: Gainesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Yes it is splais! And great thoughts and common sense, must come from being a screwdriver and hammer man !! You are doing the right thing, a smart and methodical job. This Pup will fly great for you....keep on keepin' on , puplover

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 33

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/1/2007 6:38:13 AM   
Frank Sopwith



Posts: 118
Joined: 1/20/2007
From: Westervoort, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		I'm still a bit worried about the way of soldering you used, as long as you didn't use separate flux, a flame (torch), to heat things up to cherry red and add the silver solder (from a rod) you definitely used 'soft solder' which won't last a flight!
Silver soldering really takes some effort to master, but is also not too difficult see; brazing.com

Frank

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RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/1/2007 3:04:51 PM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I am not adverse to learning new things or doing the whole thing over. The only true silver solder I could get locally was 1/16" 56%. None of the torches or electric soldering guns I had would properly melt it. What I am using "appears" plenty strong and I have put it in a vice and yank and pulled on it. This is all new to me and I am learning as I go along.

Could you be a little more specific and tell me exactly which silver solder you recommend and what equipment you use to apply it. Also, is there any way to "test" a joint.

Thanks, Steve

< Message edited by splais -- 7/1/2007 5:17:52 PM >

(in reply to Frank Sopwith)
       Post #: 35

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/1/2007 3:25:36 PM   
abufletcher



Posts: 5556
Joined: 2/13/2004
From: Zentsuji, JAPAN
Status: offline 		Steve, I would assume that StayBrite brand silver solder would do the job just fine and flows at a much lower temp than other types of silver solder.

The stuff I could get here in Japan had a flow temperature of 750C whereas the StayBrite is around 400C. And yes, getting the high temp stuff to melt had me pulling my hair out.

On my last trip to the US I picked up 3 of the StayBrite kits and they work great! Never leave home without one!

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 36

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/1/2007 5:18:50 PM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I have some of the Staybrite on order on the advice of a friend.

(in reply to abufletcher)
       Post #: 37

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/2/2007 8:18:11 PM   
eagledancer


 

Posts: 475
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		the dubro is the ones i am using on my 1/3 pup, quite strong. on the silver solder it can be aquired at a welding shop and does use more heat to use then the standard soldering gun can provide. i have used a small butane torch on smaller items to use it. larger items like landing gear i have to get out a torch

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(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 38

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/3/2007 4:17:06 PM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I have finished the landing, flying and strut support wires. It came out really nice and I like to apparent strength and rigidity of the flat wire I used to mimic the aerodynamic bracing cables of the real Pup. I have learned two things. Those flat wires, while giving very rigid support are also very sensitive to adjust. A little bit goes a long way. Adjusting the double flying wire pairs have proven to be a bit of pain. I’ve also discovered that I needed to be careful setting up and adjusting the functional strut support wires. It’s very easy to pull things all out of alignment with too much tension on any of these wires. It will be interesting to see just how good or bad this bird flies, hopefully this weekend. I’ll post some pictures of the final setup soon. I really like the flatwire and Dubro HD clevis setup. It’s much cleaner and closer to scale than the turnbuckle and wire setup. Dubro needs to come out with some reverse treaded Clevis’s and couplers – now that would be sweet.

If the new maiden flight turns out Ok, I plan to "antique" all these wire ends. I have found that dropping the shinny brass fittings into some antique gun barrel browning fluid "ages" them beautifully; got to test that idea on the shinny silver Dubro stuff. I think a diluted acid solution would do the same.

(in reply to eagledancer)
       Post #: 39

RE: Restoring a 1/3 Sopwith Pup(Repairing Elevator Co... - 7/5/2007 2:12:27 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Afew pics of her final prep for "rebirth". In the engine pic you can see the large spacer behind engine. If I relocate smoke pump I have about 1.5" of space I can gain for installing a dummy engine. Still trying to find out how much space I need for that. If I send the engine off and have it upgraded (no spring start) I could gain about two inches. Everything is lock-tighted up and ready to go. Now if the weather will just hold - it's a wonderful 118 (that means over 100 by 8:00am and still over 105 when it's dark!) out the next few days; but at least no wind.

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< Message edited by splais -- 7/5/2007 2:13:47 AM >

(in reply to splais)