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To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 3:37 AM   
SinCityJets


 

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Status: offline 		OK, I have seen and read a lot of stuff about gyros, and have used them before in helis. You can't run one in giant scale gassers, because you get called a cheater (3D).

So, when it comes to turbines, are people using them mainly for nose wheels, or nose and rudder?? what??

Can you get away with using a cheap piezo, or are you better off going with at least a Futaba 401?

As always I appreciate your input and am not looking for this to turn in to a brand war.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 4:05 AM   
Edgar Perez



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Status: offline 		I use it only for nose wheel steering. A cheap one is fine.

One day I will try a dual output for aileron.

In jets, it's not cheating if it makes you look good

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 9:34 AM   
SinCityJets


 

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 10:34 AM   
martinan


 

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I think most guys won't admit that they use gyros so the responses might be a little weak (LOL).
I use a JR 500A on my nose wheel only and it gives my servo a big time work out. I have it installed close to my ECU so
everytime I start the turbine it picks up on the RF from the ECU and then it really gives the servo a workout. The neat thing about it is that I can
adjust the sensitivity from a spare channel and I usually turn it down during startup and then turn it back up again when I'm taxing out to the runway.

It works really great to keep the airplane tracking straight.

Good luck with the aileron setup.


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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 11:42 AM   
Koenieboy


 

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Status: offline 		I've never flown with gyro's. I find jets flying quite stable from themselfs (just program enough expo )

But people asked already 2 times which gyro I'm using: My answer is "the one between my ears"

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 11:56 AM   
JET FX



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Status: offline 		Gyros are for 'girls' right...?

< Message edited by Jet FX -- 6/18/2007 12:10 PM >

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 1:30 PM   
Geoff White



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Status: online 		Its fairly common to see gyros on nosewheel steering as it helps keep it straight on takeoff.

It is also common to see them on the rudder of swept wing jets, F86's and Mig 15's for example. The reason why is that swept wing jets have a slight tendency for yaw instability, its only slight but noticable. Aerodynamically, I have no idea why but I am sure someone will enlighten us.

At several european meets and WJM events I watched some of the top european flyers and was well impressed at the solidity of the flight. After discussing this with friends, I was told that its because they nearly always use a gyro on the ailerons. So while many people may say 'I don't need a gyro on my ailerons', I say try it and then make up your mind.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 2:09 PM   
extra 300


 

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Status: offline 		Any idea on type of gyro to use on ailerons?
Thanks for your help.
Dany

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 2:49 PM   
Jgwright


 

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Status: offline 		The most popular Gyro for use on ailerons is the ACT Fuzzy Pro from Germany.

http://www.acteurope.de/html/fuzzy_pro_v2.html

There is an English transation of the manual available. I have 3 of their Gyros on 3 planes operating on ailerons. It helps models particularly, with smaller wingspans to hold a solid presence in the air. These gyros have variable gain so it can be adjusted during the flight.

John

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 2:55 PM   
Geoff White



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Status: online 		I am told Futaba also make a gyro that is specifically designed for fixed wing but I have no experience of it.

Me, personally, I have an ACT fuzzy logic V2 gyro that is going to be installed in my Hawk very soon.

Geoff.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 2:59 PM   
JET FX



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Geoff White

Its fairly common to see gyros on nosewheel steering as it helps keep it straight on takeoff.

It is also common to see them on the rudder of swept wing jets, F86's and Mig 15's for example. The reason why is that swept wing jets have a slight tendency for yaw instability, its only slight but noticable. Aerodynamically, I have no idea why but I am sure someone will enlighten us.

At several european meets and WJM events I watched some of the top european flyers and was well impressed at the solidity of the flight. After discussing this with friends, I was told that its because they nearly always use a gyro on the ailerons. So while many people may say 'I don't need a gyro on my ailerons', I say try it and then make up your mind.


I have both Mig-15 and F-86 (Fiber Classics) and they fly as easy as any scale aircraft I have ever flown to be honest 'without' gyros fitted.... so much for that argument! also using expo on your steering takes care of any undo sensitivity on the nose wheel.
The one model I have flown where a gyro maybe?? of been of some use to my nerves was when landing a rather nose heavy 1/8 scale Chinese ARF F-18 without using any flap, a much higher than anticipated roll out speed being necessary but even that proved uneventful, more concern really about tyres blowing off the rims.....

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 3:04 PM   
Boomerang1



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Status: offline 		I fly just a basic jet & it's easy to handle so I can see no point of a gyro in this model.

But if I had a beast to tame why not? - John.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 3:07 PM   
Geoff White



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Status: online 		Well as I said swept wing jets fly fine without a gyro but they can be improved wth a gyro on the rudder.

In addition here is a direct cut/paste from bvms website

"GYRO's
Some new and old information

BVM likes the advantages of using a Piezo Electric Gyro on the yaw axis of our jets. Practically any jet's in-flight stability and ground handling are enhanced with the proper application of these high tech devices"

Its a matter of personal choice.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 3:16 PM   
JET FX



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Geoff White

Well as I said swept wing jets fly fine without a gyro but they can be improved wth a gyro on the rudder.

In addition here is a direct cut/paste from bvms website

"GYRO's
Some new and old information

BVM likes the advantages of using a Piezo Electric Gyro on the yaw axis of our jets. Practically any jet's in-flight stability and ground handling are enhanced with the proper application of these high tech devices"

Its a matter of personal choice.



Yeah well we all know BV cant fly!.... Maybe it has to do with flying upside down and using mode 1 (an Aussie thing)
Hey that reminds me a line from a certain movie, can you guess-

"There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you'll enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"



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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 5:24 PM   
SinCityJets


 

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 6:39 PM   
Tom Antlfinger



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Status: offline 		I have never found a gyro necessary for nose wheel steering.....as mentioned, having 3 rates and expo settings on the rudder hi/mid/low rate switch on my 10X solves those problems....

I am now flying the 80" BVM F-86.......the only time I turn on the rudder gyro (Aux 2, 3-position switch using gyro gain menu 44) is when I am landing or flying on a X-Windy day......the Saber lands without dutch roll on relatively calm days, but will start dutch rolling with a stiff cross wind and my dumb thumbs in the typical PIO mode....up in the air, the gyro will damp any unsightly tail waggle on windy, bumpy days.....I use about 1/2 gain in the air vs landing....

I have a Wingo on my SJ F-16 tailerons and like it....but I am out of channels on my Saber, so haven't tried it........

I have a JR 500A in the Saber, using an 8611 for the rudder servo.....

Tom

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 6/18/2007 7:59 PM   
ravill



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Status: offline 		I use JR 410 on the nose of every jet I own. I will never own a jet without one.

I tried this same gyro on the ailerons of my F-18c, and found it to be a little scary in flight. I put the gain right on half way (no way to adjust from transmitter, ) and the airplane was hunting in the sky. Very alarming. I landed and yanked the gyro right out of there. I had no idea where to place the intial gain settings so I guessed and did not like it.

I'd love to try a gyro on the ailerons, I've heard that Ali uses one. If he can use one, than why can't I?

Raf

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 3:35 AM   
JeanLucPicard


 

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Status: offline 		could you folk kindly link me up to gyro research pages

I am wondering if there are such things as gyros which can hold wings steady in buffety conditions on the smaller aircraft to provide scale appearance

a) no stick input
b) stick applied at say 25% deflection and held and bank angle then held with appropriate mixed elevator and rudder intermixed?! (need speed and v accurate height inputs to accomplish?) - ie childs play scale turns with aileron stick moved and held like a steering wheel on a car - if balanced steady turns can be accomplished, pitch and speed should be easy enough to manage

This is for an amateur pilot flying scale 3 to 8 ft models and not wishing to perform stunt flying. - rudder can still be operated manually for controlling x-wind take off / landing etc, and set to either intermix with gyro controlled ailerons or indipendent

I really dont like to see scale aircaft tossed around like a toy if aileron gyros are responsive enough to hol the roll steady at all times - rock steady landing on flaps at low speed with rock steady wings would be very satisfying ('cheating' or not..)

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 5:16 AM   
Likai



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Status: offline 		Recently, an experiment what I want to do is moving CG far backward to make the plane aerodynamically unstable( like many modern fly-by-wire jet fighters) and in such case gyro controlled pitch/yaw is the only way to keep the plane flying. I have tried this idea in RealFlight G3 simulator, when elevator and rudder controlled by gyros I can move CG approx 200mm backward in a 3 meter long plane and this plane can make many unbelievable maneuver.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 12:05 PM   
Jgwright


 

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If you look at this video you can see my Swallow flying with gyro on ailerons. The only time that there is any waggling of the wings is when Dave was trying to free the nose leg for landing. The rest of the time it is smooth as silk. It is a nice stable plane though which helps. Most of the early flying was done with the gyro set at about 50% but recently we have been experimenting in turning it down in flight using the variable gain to about 25%. This helps make the rolls a little less 'notchy'. The best gyros I have found are from ACT in Germany. http://www.acteshop.de/product_info.php?products_id=2040

Likai
We have flown a number of planes with gyros on ailerons and it definitely saved one model on its first flight when the CG was too far back. I cannot say whether it would aid manouvers as we were just so pleased to get the plane to land and correct the CG. If you want amazing manouvers then vectored thrust seems the way to go.

John

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 12:16 PM   
djindivik


 

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Status: offline 		It's probably not "cheating", as such, but it's a bit "girly", in my Humble opinion. Mmmm, That should stir up a hornets nest ! Ray.

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 1:30 PM   
JET FX



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Status: offline 		Reckon they could be the go for use in conjunction of inflight thrust vectoring and lateral exhaust deflection/ rudder mixing... otherwise most definetely probably a little "girly". I still cant understand why using expotentional on your steering is not enough??? and on ailerons hmmmmm.

Hey does that mean the WJM should maybe now referred to as the WGM

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 5:05 PM   
JeanLucPicard


 

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Status: offline 		Hi JG

Thanks for reply, yes most tips appear to head toward ACT - some Futaba

Unfortunately couldnt find your 'demo' link

I would be interested in receiving links to any reviews / demos of gyros being switched on / off on twitchy roll set up to convince me it would be worthwhile at the other extreme end to Jets - scale high wing Cessnas! (albeit ones very highly loaded requiring some degree of flap for general flying at scale speeds)

Incidentally what on Earth happens during a spin - presumably manual input of rudder and forward stick would overcome ailerons going crazy?!

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/4/2007 5:54 PM   
Jgwright


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry something went wrong there

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2qra_7YjoYw

Try this

John

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RE: To Gyro or not to Gyro? - 10/5/2007 12:52 AM   
DelGatoGrande



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Status: offline 		high speed on the runway.danger.always gyro for take offs and landings

make your self a favor and get a gyro.stering AND rudder! set up on retracts swich.up less gain down more

if gyro is girly and not help i would love to see some "men" fly a jet with no expo!



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