RE: Can old glow fuel still be used?  
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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 12:27:04 PM   
Ed Cregger



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quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop

I had a case of Tower fuel, 4 gal. all un opened and still in the cardboard box that I bought in '88.

A couple of years ago I re-discovered it and all 4 bottles had partially collapsed? Perhaps some of the alcohol or other ingredients had seeped, leached, osmosized (is that a word? ) through the plastic jugs?
Anyway...when I ran it in an engine on the stand, it ran very rich compared to the "control" new fuel...(FWIW )



----------------


Run it for bench break-in fuel with the glow heater still attached. <G>

As long as it doesn't hurt the engine and is burnable, I'll put it to use. Like old glow plugs. They also serve break-in duty around here.


Ed Cregger



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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 12:52:20 PM   
heli_Rod



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Status: offline 		Also check for sediment in the bottom of the container. If the containers have been opened and any water absorbed, the methanol can start the fermemtation process and sugar will show up as tiny white specks on the bottom of the container or floating if stirred. The nitro has most likely long been evaporated.

I've tried to run old fuel, but always ended up using it for charcoal starter, weed killer, etc. Tossing it was easier than tearing the carbs apart to get out foreign particles that were in the fuel.

Rod

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 12:59:49 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		I was kind of thinkin' that way myself Ed...
It still smells o.k. but it seems like perhaps the plastic jugs are permiable (sp?) and maybe allowed some of the alcohol out, or moisture in, or...

I have heard before about certain types of plastic bottles being molecularly porus (would that be an acceptable phrase?) and/or allow osmosis (?) to take place. The plastic jugs allowed something to get out, but no air to get in to replace whatever got out, so I guess that's why they were partially collapsed?

Edit: Rod...you posted while I was typing...
As far as my particular situation is concerned, I saw no obvious change in the fuel, appearance wise. I poured some into a clean glass jar and looked closely for any "junk" floating around in it. (I have experienced the white flakes of castor in other old containers of fuel, but not this time )

Another way I tested the Tower fuel was to shake one jug vigorously and pour about a qt. into a large (very clean ) mayonaise jar and let it set for a few days to check for anything settling on the bottom...I saw nothing...(Sgt. Schultz )

< Message edited by proptop -- 6/21/2007 1:07:10 PM >

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:06:06 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		Turning brown is often the dye. Many will turn a dark color with light. If the fuel asorbed a lot of water it would smoke more not less? (water turns to steam which leaves a white trail as with a car idling in the winter). However, no one has any way of knowing exactly what they use for the synthetic oils.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:07:43 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

It still smells o.k. but it seems like perhaps the plastic jugs are permiable (sp?) and maybe allowed some of the alcohol out, or moisture in, or...


They are not permiable, only reactive resins are pourous, and that is mostly because of gas made from thier reactions.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:10:44 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		Ah yes...don't they sometimes put some sort of indicator in Nitro that changes color if it gets contaminated or otherwise "goes bad"?

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:13:57 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		O.K... maybe pourous is not the right word...but certain types of soft plastics will allow smaller molecules to pass through...I forget what the process is called? Somebody in an earlier post alluded to it. (I think it was Dar )

< Message edited by proptop -- 6/21/2007 1:16:12 PM >

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:14:15 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

ORIGINAL: proptop

Ah yes...don't they sometimes put some sort of indicator in Nitro that changes color if it gets contaminated or otherwise "goes bad"?



Yes, but that would be if it becomes contact sensitive and it turns purple not brown. I don't think it can turn become contact sensitive once mixed with methanol, also reduces it's explosive properties, that is why the NHRA banned 100% nitro. Now 90% is the max, it must have at least 10% methanol even if other additives are used.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 6/21/2007 1:17:02 PM >

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:16:20 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Status: offline 		Osmosis. However, that is a special type of membrane used for those, also methanol and nitro are not very small molecules. Water is smaller and it will not pass through the plastic.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:18:51 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		I was given some very old K&B fuel that had turned brown...
It turned out that it was rust from inside the can

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:22:59 PM   
proptop



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Status: offline 		Well...over a period of about a decade something happened to allow the plastic jugs to partially collapse?

When I took the cap off, and then the red plastic stop-plug out, the jug went back to it's original shape, and the liquid level was down lower than it normally would have been in a full jug.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 1:30:26 PM   
richie68


 

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Status: offline 		using older fuel like that,even if it runs,and you are asking for an engine full of shellac.Why take the chance?Richie.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 2:06:49 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

Well...over a period of about a decade something happened to allow the plastic jugs to partially collapse?


Many food products are applied under pressure to prevent them from collapsing. If simply poured in and capped then the jug will collapse when the barometric pressure is above that when the jug was poured. However, it would have to vary a lot when full, this usually happens when the product is partially used. I see this happen a lot with half full milk jugs.

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RE: Can old glow fuel still be used? - 6/21/2007 8:18:59 PM   
Ed Cregger



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quote:

ORIGINAL: heli_Rod

Also check for sediment in the bottom of the container. If the containers have been opened and any water absorbed, the methanol can start the fermemtation process and sugar will show up as tiny white specks on the bottom of the container or floating if stirred. The nitro has most likely long been evaporated.

I've tried to run old fuel, but always ended up using it for charcoal starter, weed killer, etc. Tossing it was easier than tearing the carbs apart to get out foreign particles that were in the fuel.

Rod



-----------------


I triple filter my fuel from the can. Nothing gets through to plug up the carb.


Ed Cregger



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