There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!!  
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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Batteries & Chargers >> There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!!
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There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/5/2003 2:16:46 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: online 		OK, I've had It. I am just about to throw my hands in the air and say to hell with it. I have been reading, searching and studying in preparation for getting a good quality battery maintenance system. I fed up. the more I learn the more confusing it gets. the more I read about different units the more confusing it gets. I'm about to just go back to my 4 or 5 wall chargers I've been using and do what I do now; just buy new batteries every now and then.

My trouble started when I purchased a H9 Sure Cycle and had this thing telling me my 1400mah batteries only had 400-500mah in them. Even though my planes were flying 5 or 6 times a day just fine. So then I started looking for a better unit that could do two planes at once. that is when things started getting REALLY FRUSTRATING.

Question: there must be a basic RC battery care primer out there someplace that explains everything in PLAN ENGLISH. I.e., what to use, how to use it and how it works. Help!

PS: I'm beginning to think this entire thing is a giant con to make money and my present method (end of 1st paragraph) is just fine and a lot less agravation. Any comments.
       Post #: 1

Re: There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/5/2003 2:30:05 AM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5034
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Splais


Question: there must be a basic RC battery care primer out there someplace that explains everything in PLAN ENGLISH. I.e., what to use, how to use it and how it works. Help!

[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you need to visit the Battery Clinic.

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 2

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/5/2003 2:32:59 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: online 		Is that a hint. I'll check and let you know how you did.

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 3

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/5/2003 6:04:53 AM   
Hoosier06


 

Posts: 147
Joined: 10/16/2003
From: Highland, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Read Red's thread of 12-31-2002. "What rates should I set on my new charger? I printed it out and it has become my bible for maintaining batteries with confidence.
Matt

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 4

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/5/2003 7:15:32 AM   
JPMacG


 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Ivyland, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, the last parpagraph in your first post isn't too far from the truth in my opinion. There is nothing wrong about using your C/10 wall wart chargers.

The advantage of a battery maintenance system is that one can test the capacity of a batteru pack and maybe detect a pack going bad before an accident occurs. I do the same thing with a resistor, milliammeter, and a clock. Considering all the trouble people have with their expensive battery manintenance systems, I'm staying with my proven and very simple technique.

While you're looking through Red's site, read the section on keeping you're batteries charged using an appliance timer.

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 5

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/6/2003 1:18:58 AM   
Jazzy



Posts: 1106
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Erie, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I understand what you're going through. Been there. Done that.
Shortly after I got into this hobby I began buying timers, various DC output wallwarts, and a bunch of other do-dads.
I found this very time consuming and I usually had to be around to monitor the charging process.
I built an adjustable constant current discharger. This HAD to be monitored.
I then bought two Hobbico Accucycles. (Limited capabilities.)

In time, I retired most all the above after purchasing the first of two Supernovas.

Hands free peak charging and discharging may seem 'lazy' to some but it sure makes life easier. While the unit only has one set of output/input ports it can cycle both a receiver pack and a radio pack in just over one hour.
I no longer wonder if my batteries are at full charge when I fly. A quick peak charge at home, on the way to the field, or even at the field and I'm without worry.

For the aircraft and radios sitting in the hangar I use appliance timers and wall warts to maintain a state of full charge. Everything gets cycled on a schedule every three months to check for 'dying' packs.

These newer 'fancy' units usually are no more difficult to program than your VCR. Simply playing with them a little bit will get you used to the programming.

So believe me, I understand your frustration.

I you prefer to stay with wall warts try to get some with the output as close to C/10 as possible. (Charging a 1400mAH pack with a 50-70mA wall wart is kinda like trying to fill a 55 gal drum with a 1 cup measuring cup.)

Best of luck,
Jeff

_____________________________

Aww $#!^.... I left the )@#& transmitter at home!

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 6

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/8/2003 8:37:47 AM   
KB9STD


 

Posts: 221
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		"I you prefer to stay with wall warts try to get some with the output as close to C/10 as possible. (Charging a 1400mAH pack with a 50-70mA wall wart is kinda like trying to fill a 55 gal drum with a 1 cup measuring cup.)"

I recall reading a quote from a GENERAL ELECTRIC paper on NICD batteries (Many, many years ago). It stated that a battery charged at LESS than the C/10 rate will NEVER reach full capacity.
I personally believe this is still true, whether using NICD or NIMH chemistry.If you charge a 1200mah battery with the "standard" charger from your radio (i.e. 50ma) you will not achieve full capacity. You may get close ,if you charge for 30 hours or longer
(remember to compensate for inefficiency in the charging process).
But You will be missing out on some portion of the packs capacity.

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 7

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/8/2003 2:36:48 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5034
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by KB9STD
"I you prefer to stay with wall warts try to get some with the output as close to C/10 as possible. (Charging a 1400mAH pack with a 50-70mA wall wart is kinda like trying to fill a 55 gal drum with a 1 cup measuring cup.)"

I recall reading a quote from a GENERAL ELECTRIC paper on NICD batteries (Many, many years ago). It stated that a battery charged at LESS than the C/10 rate will NEVER reach full capacity.
I personally believe this is still true, whether using NICD or NIMH chemistry.If you charge a 1200mah battery with the "standard" charger from your radio (i.e. 50ma) you will not achieve full capacity. You may get close ,if you charge for 30 hours or longer
(remember to compensate for inefficiency in the charging process).
But You will be missing out on some portion of the packs capacity. [/QUOTE]

Actually the minium rate is C/20 to achive full charge, with C/50 to sustain full capacity after a full charge.

Red S.
CoAuthor of GENERAL ELECTRIC paper on Ni-Cds many years ago.

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 8

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/8/2003 4:31:10 PM   
JNorton



Posts: 3140
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Montague, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Splais,
After reading Reds battery clinic, here is what I'm doing. I usually fly 1 to 3 days a week. I've been flying three years. I've been an electronics technician and electrical engineer for the last 30 years.

After I fly I plug my plane into a wall wart charger for over night. When I get around to it I plug the charger into a maintenance wall strip that is powered up one hour out every 24.

Everyone of my planes has a built-in voltmeter. Hobbico's Voltwatch. I use 4.8 volt packs. Before I fly I do a range check and check the servos for movement and direction while watching the voltwatch. After landing I look at the voltwatch to see what the drain is. If I fly all day at the field I use a field charger.

I don't worry about it. I don't worry only having 600ma capacity in a 800ma pack. I only worry about what I observe. Todays NiCad packs are well built and the voltwatches will let me know in advance if anything is going bad in the pack. I've never observed memory effects and I don't believe in cycling. I do believe in observing a packs performance in the real world and the voltwatches let me do this.

John

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 9

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/9/2003 2:38:17 AM   
JPMacG


 

Posts: 1183
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Ivyland, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Exactly! I follow JNorton's procedure almost exactly. I think this is all you need to do, Splais. Forget the battery conditioners.

I do measure battery capacity several times a year using the resistor, clock and ammeter technique, but really, I think this is not necessary as long as you keep your eye on the Voltwatch after each flight.

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 10

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/9/2003 5:34:27 AM   
splais


 

Posts: 2746
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: online 		Actually I have been using the Hobbico MkII Fast Field Charger set at it's lowest setting. It tells me when charge is complete and goes to trickle, does any two battery combinations at the same time. Is very easy to use.

I also use the voltwatch and I have found it to work extremely well and it will go straight to red if anything is wrong with battery, like a dead cell.

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 11

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/9/2003 6:07:30 AM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5034
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Splais
Actually I have been using the Hobbico MkII Fast Field Charger set at it's lowest setting. It tells me when charge is complete and goes to trickle, does any two battery combinations at the same time. Is very easy to use.

I also use the voltwatch and I have found it to work extremely well and it will go straight to red if anything is wrong with battery, like a dead cell. [/QUOTE]

Not a bad system for under US$50. . . . No cycling capability however.

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 12

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/10/2003 8:01:37 PM   
Jaber


 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: Washington
Status: offline 		Hey Red,

Do you have a link to the GE paper mentioned above? I would be interested in reading it.

Thanks

Chris Beare
Seattle, Wa

(in reply to splais)
       Post #: 13

There Has Got To Be A Basic Primer Some Place!! - 3/10/2003 11:35:25 PM   
Red Scholefield



Posts: 5034
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Newberry, FL, USA
Status: online 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jaber
Hey Red,

Do you have a link to the GE paper mentioned above? I would be interested in reading it.

Thanks

Chris Beare
Seattle, Wa [/QUOTE]

Actually the paper is a book, 290 pages.

Renamed "Recgargeabke Batteries Application Handbookwhen it was published in hard cover by Butterworth-Heinemann as part of the EDN Series for Design Engineers. Gates Energy Products that purchased General Electric turned the publishing rights over to B&H rather than go to the expense of publishing it themselves.

ISBN 0-7056-9228-6 Publication date 1992.

Much of the material in it however can be found at the Battery Clinic web site - modified for the R/C hobby.

_____________________________

Red S.
AMA 951 Leader Member
Disclaimer: What I have written here are my thoughts and in no manner shape or form reflect the views of RCU

(in reply to splais)