RE: skyshark kits no more  
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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/22/2007 11:30:43 PM   
rustypep


 

Posts: 342
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Powell, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I usually stay out of these arguements too but decided to say my peace. All I can say is own two Top Flite kits and they have ABS cowls, not as good wood selection (heavier sheeting and lesser quality ply), die crunching, build a little heavier, no cockpit kit or any parts of it, ok hardware and ok but not great customer service. I have several instances where the parts provided didn't match the plan or vise versa. All Skyshark kits are laser cut/CAD designed, one piece fiberglass cowls in many cases. some include cockpits or at least a control panel, sullivan control rods and better hardware, provides for flap options in some kits but warns of weight penalty, and I am sure I am missing a few other positives including a detailed manual although TF's are pretty good too.

I can count up the cost of the sheeting, fiberglass cowl, hardware, etc. that I replaced in my TF Spit kit and could easily add $100-$150 to what I spent on the kit and more. One can make a fair agruement about the smaller size but how many build the wrong warbird the first or second time, and crash it the first time because it came out too heavy or didn't arrive at a good final product because of issues in the kit building process or something else. I am not saying this to slam TF or sell Skyshark. I would rather have both as they are now than see either one go away. Fewer options available in the marketplace is not good for anyone but the competition. Neither TF plane I have is built by Skyshark (Spit & T-34) but I was partial to Skyshark's Avenger and Tempest. I like many others took for granted that they would be around building kits long enough for me to get to build one and now regret not putting one in my inventory sooner.

The Avenger was $350 but had a 72" span, detailed cockpit kit, built up flight surfaces, fiberglass cowl, wheel well detail, maple hardwood for servo and cowl mounts, three-views and the rest of Skysharks usual quality. Was this price really unreasonable or do we as the consumer have unrealistic expectations? I called today and they are making a waiting list of sorts just in case they produce some more kits. I put myself down for an Avenger and Tempest. I sure hope they do it. They also provided a variety that was not available from other kit companies.

I also understand the position of our European friends who are faced with higher taxes which made these kits less attractive. It is an unfortunate reality that exists in places in the world economy. We in the US sometimes take for granted how low our taxes really are relative to other developed counties.

Lastly, I have to give the owners a lot of credit for making themselves available to us in these public forums and supporting the scale & sport scale modeling community. They advertised, showed up at trade shows, and even opened themselves up to some debatable criticism at times in these forums, while other companies make zero or minimal effort. They support both RCSB and I believe RCU. If Skyshark couldn't sell a profitable kit line after the level of effort, thinking and committment they put into it, I do not expect anyone else to come along and succeed or try either.

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/22/2007 11:50:03 PM   
Peter_OZ



Posts: 4750
Joined: 6/5/2002
From: Brisbane, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		bloody shame, another victom to the current trend of the market swamped with cheap chinese made ARFs. No one can compete and make a reasonable profit.

Only good news is that as the Chinese economies booms ahead and the standard of living in proportion so till will wages, so in a few years the wheel will turn and the cost of manufacturing in China will not be so attractive.

Scant comfort to all the kit makers going under now though

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/22/2007 11:58:18 PM   
Peter_OZ



Posts: 4750
Joined: 6/5/2002
From: Brisbane, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I guess TF make a kit to fit into a distinct $ market category and have to cut a few corners to ensure they fit that very small window. Slightly better quality wood, hardware etc would drive price to where they can not compete against the ARF market. I would bet that they are running on some very tight margins.

Comparison would be looking at how Pizza Hut and Dominos operate, not the best quality but you get a pizza that is cheap, tastes ok and fills you up. Every morsel on that pizza is carefully weighed, measured and costed. The margins are tiny and they rely on volume sales.

Same for TF, ok quality, ok performance, ok scale appearance. They do the job and in fact for the money they are a pretty good option to learn building skills. Agree though that the balsa sheeting is crap but I can live with it. Some of their kits like the P40 and Giant scale P47 are very close in scale outline and if you can keep weight down they fly very well.

Anyway lets hope TF (GP) can contune to survive as the modelling community needs them. hmmm wonder if their kits are still made in the US or are now outsourced to a factory in China. Most of thge GP range is now made in China so quite possible.

oh well might have to brush up on scratch building skills

< Message edited by Peter_OZ -- 6/22/2007 11:59:53 PM >

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 1:54:23 AM   
busarider29


 

Posts: 70
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Zeeland, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with what a few members have pointed out already.....they were just too over-priced. I recall countless...and I mean COUNTLESS times that I visited their site (I wanted to build the ME-109 G6) but just could never get past the price for their kits. $300+ was just too steep for a 60-90 size warbird full wood kit. I can purchase a Ziroli 1/5 scale warbird FULL kit for just a little more than that. Granted, Skyshark did have some nice features to their kits (lazer cut cockpit details) and offered up some nice fiberglass parts but it still didn't justify the price. I think if there were any way that they could have trimmed their prices down.....to say at least close to what the Top Flite 60 size birds go for ($150), then they would certainly still be in business and maybe even giving Top Flite a run for their money which would have been awesome for them because the TF kits sell like hot cakes. Furthermore, I think better marketing would have helped them tremendously as well. Go through Tower Hobbies to sell their kits.....just like Top Flite does. I don't know all the details and expenses that it takes to manufacture wook kits, but TF has been doing it for years at a price ($150) that has stayed relatively unchanged in 13+ years.
Still, with all that said, I absolutely sulk when a hobby retailer/manufacturer has to close their doors. It's too bad.

(in reply to Kmot)
       Post #: 54

RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 2:10:00 AM   
Tommy_Gun



Posts: 715
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Ione, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If you weren't in the position to know what it takes financially to produce a kit such as the Skyshark lineup,
How in the heck can you even begin to expect them to drop prices?

Do you think that they should receive no reimbursement for the time they spend producing, marketing and supporting the product line they have?

Do they exist for the sole purpose of providing us all with cheap kits that they should make no profit on?

Comparing Skyshark to Top Flite is another total mismatch in the area of financial backing.

Skyshark is as I understand a family owned and run small business. Top Flite is a corporate business giant comparatively speaking.

We have become a nation of instant gratification for the lowest price consumers and it is taking it's toll on hard working folks here at home.


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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 2:43:35 AM   
rustypep


 

Posts: 342
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Powell, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I totally agree. Also, many corporations with multiple revenue streams can continue to let an underperforming line keep going for a while until it begins to drag the overall profit down. This is a luxury that the smaller kit makers don't have. A 5% margin is a 5% margin but if the whole company had to operate on it than it could be a different story. The fact that the only new thing TF has released in tha last few years are ARF's should be an indicator of where they see the greatest profit potential. It certainly won't be to revamp a kit line that is quickly becoming obsolete to a growing part of today's market. Everyone seems to want Axis fighters now but they haven't traditionally sold well in the US but maybe that will change. Frankly, I am still surprised TF continues to discount thier GS P-47. That is still a good deal, as is the T-34. I believe the FW190 was the last kit TF discontinued due to lack of sales. I am sure Skyshark could have been competitive with TF if they wanted to reduce what they included in their kits. ABS parts, etc. but they were trying to do better and give us another option. I guess the bottom line is there is still a large group that doesn't want to pay more than $150 for a kit, regardless of how many parts get replaced/upgraded/added during the build process and they are entitled to hold that position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tommy_Gun

Comparing Skyshark to Top Flite is another total mismatch in the area of financial backing.

Skyshark is as I understand a family owned and run small business. Top Flite is a corporate business giant comparatively speaking.




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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 2:54:22 AM   
rustypep


 

Posts: 342
Joined: 9/12/2004
From: Powell, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I have to edit what I said on recent kits. The Piper Arrow and and the update to the Contender are more recent from TF.

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 4:06:59 AM   
LDM


 

Posts: 5092
Joined: 5/29/2003
From: Denver, PA,
Status: offline 		Come on now , lets all keep it real , I will start .... I totally respect the guys who simply said the quality is great but too steep for my wallet or for my perception of Value . This is not about China , America , cheap labor and or profit , its about choice and you , yes many of you who are now did not buy when you had all the time in the wolrd . Just like the post on Pica kits , you know the one "is Pica out of business " , I have gone to that post , told people about kits on sale on RCU , Ebay ect and guess what , they dont buy them !!!
Skyshark is gone because we , you , me ect as consumer did not choose to buy there kits , now we (well not me because I am a realist ) are crying , if you feel that bad do what some of the guys said , call them and buy a kit or put your name on a list or find the guy in NewEnland who had a ton of kits a month ago .
PLease dont be offended but we use these post for every possible political venue but TRUTH and FREEDOM , both of those cause the end of skyshark--- your ability to live in a great country that allows freedom of choice and survival of the fittest . If you guys love Mike and his company ---you should have chosen to buy a kit every 6 months or so to keep him in business , that is what he needed , not a long "I am sorry there gone post " I did not buy there kits , no time to build so I have no regrets , because the business world cycles , and soon enought if kits are in demand , they will be made , its that simple .

I run a company that now employs more high paid americans then when we made all our products in the USA . We now import 80% of our goods , changeing the line every two years too meet the ever changeing demands of the US consumer . If we invested in machinery to make the goods we would be out of Biz by the time the lines were set up because the trends change that fast .
We had a choice , and the best choice is constant change , dont ever get attached to a line , a brand or a trend , because it will all change , usually withen two years , that my friends you can take to the bank

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 4:41:27 AM   
herm


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		You cant compare a laser cut kit to a die cut kit in terms of cost.. die cutting may take all of a few seconds, while it may take a complex kit about 45 minutes to be laser cut.. that really limits the production rate and thus you either buy more $15000 laser machines or just live with a low production rate cottage industry. Anyone knows how long it took to laser a Skyshark kit?

The part I dont understand is how come all the cheap arfs are laser cut?.. they must be buying their lasers really cheap. The laser tubes also have limited life, they burn up after several thousand hours and are not cheap to replace.

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 4:53:48 AM   
LDM


 

Posts: 5092
Joined: 5/29/2003
From: Denver, PA,
Status: offline 		herm , I agree 100% , they are lasor cut and they(many arf companies ) have the funding , I think the arf guys realized that they can save in labor cost because the factories can assemble the planes faster , and we all know lasor kits with good cutting will fly together very fast .

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 5:07:59 AM   
herm


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: , FL, USA
Status: offline 		The arf companies use lasers because they need the precision.. they assemble all the laser cut wood parts inside a steel mold (with a special glue) they close the mold and apply ultrasonic vibrations.. this heats up the glue and makes it set, plus the steel mold guarantees alignment.. and out pops out a perfect fuselage or wing section. Apparently the vibrations dont heat up the wood, just the glue.

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 1:08:03 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6702
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: butlern

I just learned that Skyshark has discontinued their entire line of warbird kits.

It's shame that the market has forced this decision by Mike and Angie.

I don't have experience with every manufacturer's line of kits, but I do have two Skysharks, and they're unbelievabely well done.

I'll miss them.







So why wouldn't their website mention this?

Could you point us to the announcement?

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RE: skyshark kits no more - 6/23/2007 1:41:51 PM   
butlern


 

Posts: 277
Joined: 5/14/2003
From: Iowa City, IA, USA
Status: offline 		It's detailed in post #5.

Mike and Angie have posted on rcscalebuilder.com, too.

I have no idea why their website dosen't mention this.

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       Post #: 63