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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 2:19 AM   
XJet


 

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From: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Well I used to think that Saito engines were ugly things -- that awful big cam box up front and those awkwardly angled pushrod tubes just looked wrong.

The rocker covers and head finning also looked so 1920s that I thought they'd be okay for an old WW1 scale model but that's about it.

Then I bought one.

Man, when you see them in the flesh (as opposed to all the pictures I'd seen) they are *beautiful* works of art.

But from a pure mechanics perspective...

OS 4-stroke engines are fine (although I've heard a few tales of woe about some of their more experimental versions (EFI anyone?) and the FL70 appears to have a slightly mixed reputation.

One of the guys at our club has an OS120 and it's a nice powerful, reliable workhorse -- nothing wrong with it at all.

I prefer Saitos -- but that's because I fly 3D and weight is *very* important to me.

One thing worth noting: unlike my TT91FS and the OS engines I've seen, my Saitos have *never* thrown a prop or backfired on me. They develop excellent power and have super-sweet handling characteristics on 10% nitro but liven right up if you want to hike the nitro to 30% or so.

Another big plus is that Saito parts seem pretty cheap. I replaced both pushrod tubes and pushrods on my SA100 after totally burying it in the dirt and it cost a *lot* less than I expected.

Your aircraft type, wallet, flying style and personal preference should be the deciding factor when chosing a brand. Either OS or Saito will make you very happy if you learn how to tune and care for them.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 2:38 AM   
Ken6PPC


 

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Status: offline 		I haven't been in this game nearly as long as many others here. However, here the count of my 4S engines:

Saito 1.50
Saito 1.25
Saito .82 (times 3 - I REALLY like the .82's!)
OS 1.20 Pumped
OS .91

The Saitos seem more powerful, on a per weight basis, but those OS engines are pretty darn good. My OS 91 idles most consistently at a lower RPM, but it also has a LOT more mileage than the others. As my 4S's get broken in better, I find they are idling better too. So, hopefully the idle will continue to improve.

I can honestly say that there isn't a bad one in the bunch! There are probably more 4S engines, both OS and Saito, in my future. I don't think you could make a bad choice between those two brands. I don't have any personal experience with other 4S brands.



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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 6:26 AM   
buzzard bait


 

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Status: offline 		I picked up a used OS .70, early model, as my first four stroke. It is just effortless to start and adjust. What blew me away was the idle--it would actually run at 1300 to 1400 rpm. I set it for 1600 just to be on the safe side. Jim

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 6:34 AM   
foresterxt



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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet

Well I used to think that Saito engines were ugly things -- that awful big cam box up front and those awkwardly angled pushrod tubes just looked wrong.

The rocker covers and head finning also looked so 1920s that I thought they'd be okay for an old WW1 scale model but that's about it.

Then I bought one.

Man, when you see them in the flesh (as opposed to all the pictures I'd seen) they are *beautiful* works of art.

But from a pure mechanics perspective...

OS 4-stroke engines are fine (although I've heard a few tales of woe about some of their more experimental versions (EFI anyone?) and the FL70 appears to have a slightly mixed reputation.

One of the guys at our club has an OS120 and it's a nice powerful, reliable workhorse -- nothing wrong with it at all.

I prefer Saitos -- but that's because I fly 3D and weight is *very* important to me.

One thing worth noting: unlike my TT91FS and the OS engines I've seen, my Saitos have *never* thrown a prop or backfired on me. They develop excellent power and have super-sweet handling characteristics on 10% nitro but liven right up if you want to hike the nitro to 30% or so.

Another big plus is that Saito parts seem pretty cheap. I replaced both pushrod tubes and pushrods on my SA100 after totally burying it in the dirt and it cost a *lot* less than I expected.

Your aircraft type, wallet, flying style and personal preference should be the deciding factor when chosing a brand. Either OS or Saito will make you very happy if you learn how to tune and care for them.



XJET, I thought the same way about Saitos at first. They just looked really ugly to me. Then I got a 1.25a and a little .30, and now I see....really nice motors! I still love the OS and Magnums though.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 8:34 AM   
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quote:

Your opinion holds sway with me. I'm looking forward to trying a Thunder Tiger .91 four-stroke, and the .54 too.


Ed Cregger


When you do use it on a model that needs some nose weight, it's about 2 Ounces than my old OS. Also it takes a lot longer to break in. You will need to burn well over a gallon but you could fly after 3 or 4 tanks of fuel if you run it rich. Use a K&B 4C plug with 20% or more nitro, Miricle plug with less. It will throw props if run too lean, especially if you use a OS F plug with more than 10% nitro.

I have been kinda in and out of the hobby for the last two years. My twins are seniors in HS, so maybe after that I can try a Saito, or that TT 75 four stroke.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/24/2007 9:22 PM   
Rv7garage


 

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Status: offline 		I currently own:

Saito 82
Saito 62
Saito 30

I have owned:

O.S. 91
O.S. 52
O.S. 70 Ultimate

The O.S. 70 Ultimate was a dud, but the other O.S. engines were excellent. I think that O.S. has a slight advantage over Saito when it comes to initial ease of tuning/breakin- they are more Plug-and-Play. I also think that Saito's have a (sometimes significant) power-to-weight advantage over O.S., and they definitely offer a larger range of displacements- which explains why they sell more (if they do). There are also aesthetics involved, right? My personal preference is to have a cowl that is cut perfectly to allow both Saito rocker covers to peek out, chrome shining in the sun...ahh!

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/25/2007 7:07 AM   
buzzard bait


 

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Status: offline 		Can you say a little about the .62? Seems like it's almost the same weight as the .72. What props have you used? How do you like it?

Thanks,
Jim

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/25/2007 7:30 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		The Saito 62 is more related to the 72 than the 56

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 6/25/2007 5:39 PM   
RaceCity



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Status: offline 		Are OS 4C motors that bad? Heck no. Not a chance. Many of the functionality issues (any brand) that are voiced on internet forums are posted by people who have no frame of reference by which to determine good from bad.

While it's hard to deny the (generally) lighter weight of a Saito, and their incredibly nice sound, it pays not to overlook the almost legendary long-term reliability of the OS. What do I mean by reliable? Well, any motor will "quit" when the tank runs dry, the needle is set too lean, or some other external issue interferes. By reliable, I mean that barring a real dirt-in-the-transmitter crash, the OS works properly without the need for dismantling anything for not only this season, but many more in the future. For my money...the proof is in the pudding. I own a small group of Saitos, and they're sweet runners....when they aren't having some issue. The OS's I own (some nearly 20yrs old) have YET to develop any sort of mechanical difficulty in a tremendous amount of cumulative flying time.. That's a good value IMO.

All the major brands (clones excluded) have positives and negatives. None are "bad". In the proper set up, each is the King of the Castle. Depends what you need, but for sure....bigger marketing campaigns don't always mean better.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/8/2007 7:38 AM   
zurhahn


 

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Status: offline 		Ive got a Thunder Tiger 91 and its a beast. But Saito has a larger lineup of engines than OS and the lighter weight, which are the 2 main things I see why Saito seems more popular.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/8/2007 11:55 AM   
NM2K


 

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Status: offline 		I only have two issues with Thunder Tiger four-strokes.

1. Ace is involved, which makes me wary when it comes to customer service. This may have changed and may no longer be an issue.

2. The airbleed carbs. While I defend airbleed carbs as being better than their reputation alludes, when it comes to a four-stroke engine, I want a metered carb, a true two-needle carb.

3. Oh, and the weight issue. Still, if the engine delivers more power, as I'm sure it does and which is attested to by experienced and well versed modelers such as Sport Pilot, that really isn't a problem.


I have been dealing with www.thundertiger4u.com for a year or two now with excellent service and pricing. I wonder if they are an independent shop, or an alternate manifestation of Thunder Tiger's US distributor? They are doing a fine job, regardless of ownership.


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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/8/2007 12:17 PM   
XJet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger

I only have two issues with Thunder Tiger four-strokes.

1. Ace is involved, which makes me wary when it comes to customer service. This may have changed and may no longer be an issue.

I can agree with this -- but I've had just as miserable luck trying to raise a response from ThunderTiger4U as from Ace.

quote:

2. The airbleed carbs. While I defend airbleed carbs as being better than their reputation alludes, when it comes to a four-stroke engine, I want a metered carb, a true two-needle carb.

The TT91FS has a twin-needle carb so no worries there.

quote:

3. Oh, and the weight issue. Still, if the engine delivers more power, as I'm sure it does and which is attested to by experienced and well versed modelers such as Sport Pilot, that really isn't a problem.

If the promised new TT75FS ever sees the light of day it looks as if it'll have a *very* good power to weight ratio -- very near that of a Saito 72. I'd be very keen to try one for 3D use -- assuming they actually become more than a pipe-dream. (Anyone remember how long TT advertised their gas-turbine engine before it was conceded that it was just pictures on paper?)

quote:

I have been dealing with www.thundertiger4u.com for a year or two now with excellent service and pricing. I wonder if they are an independent shop, or an alternate manifestation of Thunder Tiger's US distributor? They are doing a fine job, regardless of ownership.

Yes, if TT got decent representation they'd make *huge* dents into the market that OS currently enjoys. The TT46Pro is one of the best-kept secrets out there. It's everything an OS46FX/AX is (and more) but at a far cheaper price.

The TT42GP is also vastly superior to the OS40LA and the TT61GP is a very good rival to the OS65LA, but at a far better price.

I can't understand why TT haven't officially released the TT90 2-stroke into the US market either.



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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/8/2007 7:19 PM   
wcmorrison



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Status: offline 		I got some of each kind except the TT. They all perform well. I do not measure one against the other, just use them per application.

I guess I am easier to please.

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Chip

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/28/2007 5:59 AM   
duke



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quote:

ORIGINAL: meaden

I have an OS 52 also. Great little engine. No problems, fine power. Sounds cool

I'm building two planes now an I've decided to go with Saitos in both based on weight.



you must not own any pumped OS 4s. Have two that leak, run bad. I have older OS 91 FS and it runs excellent. I also have two OS 46FX's and they remind me of Chevy 350, reliable, easy to maintain and very versatile.....now the AX, and the FL and the Ultimate and the LA's...plastic plastic plastic....leak leak break easy......too bad really.

< Message edited by duke -- 8/28/2007 6:18 AM >

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/28/2007 6:03 AM   
flipstart


 

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Status: offline 		I have a Saito 91S that runs great, friend has a Saito 1.20 that has been sent back twice, replaced, and now is ok. But in my book OS 4 strokes are a lot less trouble, easier to tune, less tempermental. Saitos are like a good lookin' woman, high maintenance and sometimes not worth the trouble.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/28/2007 6:12 AM   
Ken6PPC


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipstart

I have a Saito 91S that runs great, friend has a Saito 1.20 that has been sent back twice, replaced, and now is ok. But in my book OS 4 strokes are a lot less trouble, easier to tune, less tempermental. Saitos are like a good lookin' woman, high maintenance and sometimes not worth the trouble.


So, you are basing your opinion of an entire engine manufacturer on TWO ENGINES?? My Saito engines are not high maintenance.

I have to agree with you about the good lookin' woman though......

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/28/2007 6:18 AM   
duke



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quote:

ORIGINAL: duke

quote:

ORIGINAL: meaden

I have an OS 52 also. Great little engine. No problems, fine power. Sounds cool

I'm building two planes now an I've decided to go with Saitos in both based on weight.



you must not own any pumped OS 4s. Have two that leak, run bad. I have older OS 91 FS and it runs excellent. I also have two OS 46FX's and they remind me of Chevy 350, reliable, easy to maintain and very versatile.....now the AX, and the FL and the Ultimate and the LA's...plastic plastic plastic....leak leak break easy......too bad really.



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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/30/2007 5:24 AM   
flipstart


 

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Status: offline 		No, No, not 2 engines but a sampling of what happens at our field, as well as, here on RCU. But all aside my take on engine selection has come down to - an engine that is reliable, reasonable power, stays tuned, cranks every time with minimum fiddling-I live 42 miles from field so I don't tolerate any false starts. I don't think many will argue that OS is the most user friendly engine on the planet. I own Saitos, TT, OS. They are all good engines-but OS does a good job on making it easy to fly every time. There is no one best engine for every application. I'm done.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/30/2007 5:27 AM   
flipstart


 

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Status: offline 		One more tidbit-I can't reveal my sample size on the good lookin' woman analogy-sorry.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/30/2007 8:01 AM   
Kweasel


 

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Status: offline 		The Surpass91 is an exeptionally good running engine, I will buy it over anyones 91. I will never own another OS120 but I like their 52 and 160- 300 twins.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/31/2007 6:32 AM   
duke



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Status: offline 		try buying a regulator for a pumped OS....it will come with a carb....and forget about getting any kind of schematic for how carb-regulator assymble....so yea I love my 46 fx and old 91 four stroke....but never a pumped again. This goes with the plastic needle valves on LA's and many other OS engines. OS seemed to have let an accountant dictate their manufacturing strategy...too bad. Freakin FX replacement...they marketed the fact they used less screws to hold the head on.......come on now.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/31/2007 11:15 AM   
the pope


 

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Status: offline 		hey Duke dont take offence but why is it that other manufactures can have only four head bolts and nobody could care less but when os does it the ****e hits the fan?Also if saito has no bronze bushes for the con rod its a engineering marvel yet when os heads in that direction there just getting cheap. I would hate to see the reaction if a fix for a leaky intake on a os was to wire it back on with a bit of wire yet if it happens on a saito thats ok (saito 72} also not to mention bearings going south quike smart.For what its worth I have both saito and os four strokes and like them both. Cheers the pope

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 8/31/2007 1:14 PM   
NM2K


 

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Status: offline 		All good points, Pope.

However, Saito, in spite of its lack of bushings, has a history of durability with this set up. Yes, it still bothers me, but I'm getting over it.

On the otherhand, OS only went half way when they dropped the bushing on the wrist pin in some engines. The lower end still has a bushing, so is the rod made of the same high silicon aluminum as used in the bushless Saito rod - or not? Of course, what is not mentioned is the journal surface area (go with me on these terms - probably aren't right) utilized in these positions on the OS connecting rods. If the surface area is large enough, a bushing is not needed.

We just don't like folks fiddling with what we know for a fact works and works well.

I too own many different four-stroke brands. Not a one of them is consistently a turkey.


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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 9/1/2007 3:26 AM   
quepasa


 

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Status: offline 		Ever hear of anyone comparing an OS to anything else?
Doubt it!
I think all the others are compared to OS! Some are better in some applications, but most are not, and none are better overall.
O.S. is the sounding-board for everyone else. That in itself oughta tell a guy something.

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RE: Are OS 4S engines that bad? - 9/1/2007 3:48 AM   
Augie11


 

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Status: offline 		Maybe it's a geographical thing. I have 8 OS and 4 Saito four strokers and have never had a single problem with power, idle or needing repairs. I will say that YS engines are more powerful but every one seems to require an awful lot of tinkering.

I've found that folks having problems with OS either didn't run them in correctly or over rev them

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