Which small heli to get?

Which small heli to get? (Full Version)

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R6stunter -> Which small heli to get? (3/5/2003 6:12:01 AM)
Alright I have experience flying helis, first off. I am looking to get a small heli to fly inside of my new hobby shop. I used to work in another shop intown until it closed and I decided to open my own. We had a Piccolo which I built and tryed to get hovering, which actually happened a few times, but it was not easy. It was extremely twitchy and tended to wander around. I want to get another one but dont know which to get since there are so many different types out there now. I want something that can be all hopped up in the future with carbonfiber and aluminum stuff. I want something that can be aerobatic but easy to start flying when first built. Well that sounds like alot but I want big heli performance out of someething I can fly off countertops and in a room size area. Thanks for everyones help

Hoverup -> Which small heli to get? (3/5/2003 7:06:10 AM)
Based solely on your statement about what you want down the road from your micro, I would recommend either a MS Hornet or the Ikarus Piccolo Pro. Although there are more upgrades available for the Hornet at the moment than the Pro that has mostly to do with the fact that the Pro is new to the Market. To help you decide do a search and get a large pot of black coffee going because you will have lots of reading to do. The question posed to go either way has started flame wars in some threads in the past due to fierce loyalties to a brand. I have both and there are strengths and weaknesses to both designs. Set up properly and with a competent pilot at the sticks, both will do incredible things indoors and out. Plenty of video to prove both of these micro's capabilities on the web. Until we can get Walt and his Hornet and Steve and his Pro to have a shoot out/fly-off in SoCal, the arguments will continue. I like both. The newest crop of pretenders are all Piccolo clones and could be hopped up with the tuning pieces for the Picc, but there will be some trial and error experienced by builder/pilots before we have a recipe for mods like we do for the Hornet and Pro. For example if you do your home work, you will find that the e-motor of choice for the Hornet is a Hacker B20 22s and the same element for the Pro appears to be the Hacker B20 31s. But even these are subject to change as Astroflight has now introduced a less expensive alternative to the fine German motors and others are attempting to break in (Razor , Etc.) So hit the search and read, read, read. You'll learn a lot of other useful things along the way. Hornet sites to start with: http://www.hornet-heli.com/cgi-bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro http://microhelis.homestead.com/HornetMods.html Piccolo sites: http://www.ikarus-modellbau.de/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1 http://www.pgoelz.com/piccolo1.html This should get you started. It only takes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$!! Cheers - Boyd;) AMA 80393 Major, USAF Retired

R6stunter -> Which small heli to get? (3/7/2003 7:49:25 AM)
Thanks for your help, anyone else have anything to say?

Adam T -> Which small heli to get? (3/7/2003 10:52:32 PM)
HoverUp said it pretty well i'd say. Not much to add to that. I have a Hornet and I love it, but I want a Pic Pro next!

Thrustline -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 4:26:55 AM)
The new FEDA is the most stable one of all of the micros, I have a piccolo, skylark and the FEDA . It will fly in smoother control than the piccolo, as far as the Hornet I have no experience with it, but from what I know and see in the designs, this new FEDA has the most stable rotor head and I love it, if you watch their video, I do the same thing at work flying it from the desk in my office at work and down the hall. Basically all can be made to fly about the same eventualy with some time and patience.

Adam T -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 4:42:03 AM)
where can i see this Feda video you are talking about?

Thrustline -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 4:53:26 AM)
He is now showing it on E-Bay where he sells the new Advanced FEDA. Here's the URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3118606150&category=2563 It takes abit to download, but shows how stable it is.

Adam T -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 4:57:41 AM)
Well...that's pretty lame! :stupid: Certainly doesn't compare to the Hornet and Pic Pro vids that are out there doing full 3D and inverted hovering on the deck! As for the tail boom catch, have you seen the Piccolo Tour vid? Anyway, thanks for the link.

Thrustline -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 5:04:02 AM)
Not the greatest video, however it is very stable, the piccolo will not hover without alot of modifications, this one is very easy to fly and will hover with out modifying it. I always pick it up to show how well they fly, the others keep you busy.

Hoverup -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 8:05:14 AM)
Let's get back to what the thread starter asked for. It wasn't the most stable hovering micro (and until you try a CP Hornet or a Piccolo you need to save the awards you are giving the Feda for some other category like "most lacking in originality"). R6stunter said "........I want something that can be all hopped up in the future with carbonfiber and aluminum stuff. I want something that can be aerobatic but easy to start flying when first built. Well that sounds like alot but I want big heli performance out of someething I can fly off countertops and in a room size area. Now with that focused, unless you put a Piccolo CP head on the Feda ( which can be done by the way) it will never do aerobatics of any type much less 3D. The choice is still a Piccolo Pro or a Hornet CP. And as far as the "New Improved Feda".... Are the now shipping it in a box from a fertilizer company or have they finished the piracy and now use the Piccolo simulated wood finish cardboard box to ship it in. I've got multiples of all these babies and the Feda/HummingBird/DragonFlyer is a good, cheap, FP heli for folks to try to see if they like micros before they move on and up. Sorry but the Feda response didn't answer the mail and we don't need to send any more greenbacks to Hong Kong. ( Let Century Helicopter do that for you.) 2.5 cents :) Cheers - Boyd;) AMA 80393 Major USAF Retired.

Thrustline -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 9:00:07 AM)
I have a piccolo and as the thread started, the one he was trying to hover and stated it wasn't stable. And the piccolo I have is not as stable hovering either, as the new FEDA I have. So, the thread started that he was looking for a more stable little heli, he tried a piccolo. So I see nothing off track, we are only ansering the question.

Hoverup -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 11:17:37 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by R6stunter ..................... I want something that can be all hopped up in the future with carbonfiber and aluminum stuff. I want something that can be aerobatic but easy to start flying when first built. Well that sounds like alot but I want big heli performance out of someething I can fly off countertops and in a room size area. Thanks for everyones help [/QUOTE] Sorry to respectfully disagree one last time, but just because the room is full of horse poop doesn't mean there is a pony in here somewhere. The only way the Feda will meet the stated need quoted above is if you remove the canopy, throw the airframe away and install a Hornet CP or Piccolo Pro CP chassis in that same canopy. Regards the Hover stability....................... The most stable hover in the micro hangar of my fleet runs like this: 1. Most rock solid and stable -- Walt design fbless Hornet CP 2. Second place - Hornet CP (MS version) 3. Third place Piccolo Pro CP 4. Fourth place - Hornet FP 5. Fifth place - HummingBird FP 6. Sixth place - Piccolo Fun FP I guess you need to try a micro CP to understand what I'm saying. The first thing you won't miss is the "yo-yo" effect throttle management has on an FP heli and it just gets better after that. Try comparing the FP with a CP in slight wind conditions. While the FP sometimes refuses to descend no matter what you do with the throttle and then falls like a rock when the wind subsides, the CP leaves altitude up to the pilot and the pitch command being sent to the heli. Sorry to run on it really doesn't matter but this guy already flies helis (no guarantee for micros) and said what he wants out of the platform. When you post some video of the Feda doing 1/10 the things that are being done with the Hornet CP and the Piccolo Pro CP then I'll eat this thread and concede. Cheers - Boyd;)

R6stunter -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 7:14:11 PM)
Thanks guys, I think I may get a Hornet Cp. Who distributes them? I need to know so I again

Thrustline -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 8:58:14 PM)
Sounds good Boyd, I haven't the experience of the Hornet, I will probably go after one. The FEDA that I have must be an exception to the others people have got, it flys and doesn't walk around or require the throttle chasing as you say, like the piccolo of the Skylark I have. Just like planes and cars, you can have luck where others don't and be hooked on the ones that preform the best for you. Cheers- Thrustline

Hoverup -> Which small heli to get? (3/8/2003 11:09:47 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by R6stunter Thanks guys, I think I may get a Hornet Cp. Who distributes them? I need to know so I again [/QUOTE] Good choice.......... Try Dennis at: http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/. It's the best one stop shop with all the basics and the best upgrades. There are others but not with the inventory that Dennis has. Sean at : http://www.helihobby.com/index.html Steve at: http://dreamhobbies.com/dreamhome.htm Fitz at: http://www.fxaeromodels.com/mshornet.htm All are good shops with good service. Cheers - Boyd;) AMA 80393 Major, USAF Retired

Adam T -> Which small heli to get? (3/10/2003 9:49:56 PM)
Fair enough thrustline, but I gotta agree with Boyd on two counts: (1) it's a shame the way Chinese imports knock off designs that others put the R/D into, and I'm not crazy about the idea of rewarding such practices; and (2) I've tried my Hornet with the FP head, and there is simply no comparison in terms of stability, ease of control, and responsiveness. CP is simply easier to fly, especially outside (which is where you'll need to be unless you have a very large room or gym available for your first flights). Boyd: I'm thinking about a Pic Pro, how does it fly bone stock? Does it need the swash ball mod or is the stock swash good on its own? I think Steve Campbell said that his Pic Pro (featured in the ceiling landing video) is stock, but I'm not sure about this. Thanks.

Hoverup -> Which small heli to get? (3/10/2003 10:30:24 PM)
Steve's baseline for the Pic Pro in the video was pretty much stock mechanically(i.e. no CNC parts or aftermarket aluminum or CF dodads). But his electric/electronics used nothing from the stock kit that I can recall . Best that memory serves me, is that he had a Hacker B20 18t (although the B20 31s is a better choice - he said he's going this way), CC Phoenix 10 ESC, GWS 50 FP ESC for the tail, CSM HLG 200 HH for the Gyro/mixing, Hitec HS 50 servos and I think he had a Berg rcvr. Someone has his configuration posted on their website but I have lost the bookmark. I am in the build process of a similar configuration but am using a WES Technik DC5-2.4 coreless motor for the tail with a HF100-heli (100kHz) ESC and the Hacker B20 31s/CC ESC combination. I also have a second Pro that is going to get an AstroFlight 010 10 turn injection whenever the motor gets here. I'll be using Walt's CP Hornet CF CP blades on these babies since the stock, cover 'em yourself, blades are not impressive in the airfoil department. (IMHO) The stock Pro is fine but screams for more power than the 410 that comes with the kit can muster. They really need to offer an option W/O either motor in the box. This is why I'm off down the separates trail. I'll post some impressions once we are flying them. Cheers - Boyd;) AMA 80393 Major USAF Retired

Lost Horizon -> Which small heli to get? (3/11/2003 4:47:17 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hoverup Steve's baseline for the Pic Pro in the video was pretty much stock mechanically...... Someone has his configuration posted on their website but I have lost the bookmark.... The stock Pro is fine but screams for more power than the 410 that comes with the kit can muster. They really need to offer an option W/O either motor in the box. This is why I'm off down the separates trail. I'll post some impressions once we are flying them. Cheers - Boyd;) AMA 80393 Major USAF Retired [/QUOTE] here's te link to Steve's setup, and the videos.. http://rceheli.com/flying/1044461900/index_html I have the same steup, except I have the 31S and run in governed mode.. http://rceheli.com/flying/1046631638/index_html I have this on another site, but for here, I'll resubmit.. forgive me for those who are on the "other thread " :rolleyes: .. I agree that the Pro Package is "over sold" for what you get .. But! .. If you think it thru with seperates, and go brushless with the little 31S Hacker and LiPolys per Steve and my setups, it is dead simple with the Phoenix 10 set up in governor mode. You just dial in the RPM, and forget any finicky throttle curve management. My Pro runs at 1950 RPM in FM1, and (ahem) 2150 in FM2.. I know, I know.. its over rev'd a wee bit, but the Maah CF blades love that speed.. -/+ 12 deg, and uses it all. That 31S is a brilliant choice for power to weight, running it in Governor mode. So far, it's perfect. The tail is rock steady because the RPM is not moving around, and really responsive, way more than I thought it would be.. FM2 at the 2000+.. really gives a fast left rudder. When I was setting it up initially, I put the training sticks on it, not trusting my wiring for the tail, ESC's, gyro and governor. But it was perfect out of the box, so I went for an initial drive. It was going so well, even FF with all that skid drag, that I decided to flip it.. There I was with training gear, upside down, trolling up and down the street.. The motor never sagged at all, and it actually seemed happier with the balls up than down ... :grin:

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