A few questions about carb filters...  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> A few questions about carb filters...
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A few questions about carb filters... - 2/23/2002 2:10:25 AM   
Auger Din



Posts: 60
Joined: 2/5/2002
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline 		Hey all,

I just took the plunge and bought my first NEW engine. Yes, I'm now the proud owner of an O.S. Max 46 FX engine. And I want to get it off on the right foot as it were. :

I've had two used engines previously, both for my trainers and U-control buzzers. In my trainer, the engine came with a carb air filter already installed by the previous owner. I've read some talk on this, with no opinions seeming to be overwhelming.

Do you think its necessary or just prudent to use a carb filter on your engines? To clarify, I'm flying off of a grass field that is usually well kept.

Second...The engine didn't seem to come with a gasket for the exhaust/silencer. Again, is one necessary/prudent to use? I have material to make on should it be needed, but wanted to get your guy's ideas first.

Third: The instructions (oh my god, someone has read instructions? No Way!) state that there are three glow plugs that O.S. recommends for this engine. The Nos. 8, A5 and A3. And I'm not sure which one to use for break-in.

The engine will be mounted on a new high wing airplane with no cowl, so cooling shouldn't be a problem. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Auger

_____________________________

If you woke up breathing, congratulations. You have another chance.
       Post #: 1

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/23/2002 2:15:25 AM   
Sawyer692-RCU



Posts: 694
Joined: 2/19/2002
From: Redding, CA, USA
Status: offline 		No on the air filter- unecessary unless it's a belly lander
No on the gasket- I've never used one and have had no troubles
Yes on the O.S.#8- can't go wrong with this plug

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 2

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/23/2002 5:58:19 AM   
downunder-RCU



Posts: 1125
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Status: offline 		Carb filter...I use them on all my engines (Rossi, ST etc) both CL and RC. They're only a couple of dollars and if it saves the piston/liner only once it's worth the money. They're also rather handy in the event of a not so perfect landing

Muffler gasket...try it without the gasket if that's how it comes but watch for any black oil in the exhaust. Black oil comes from any metal to metal chattering and a gasket will prevent this.

Glow plugs....if you can avoid it don't use a new plug when running in the engine. The running in process can send minute particles through the engine and if these happen to contact the plug element they'll fuse to the coil and ruin it. Once it's run in then use whatever plug you like. The OS #8 seems to have a good reputation but they're hardly likely to recommend an Enya plug

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 3

enya #3 - 2/23/2002 6:56:17 PM   
joeyM


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 12/24/2001
From: levittown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		try one--I love this plug and use it in all my engines--enya #3--there GREAT!!!

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 4

I dont use the spendy plugs for breakin..... - 2/23/2002 8:22:54 PM   
John B



Posts: 329
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Lynden, AL, USA
Status: offline 		always seam to lunch 1 or two while breaking in the engine so I just use a fox standard(read cheap) after you get it run in go ahead and run the 8 dollar plugs if you want,but mine seam to run just fine off the fox plugs.

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 5

Black oil? - 2/24/2002 1:27:32 AM   
wsmalley



Posts: 1041
Joined: 2/16/2002
From: Monterey, TN, USA
Status: offline 		You learn something everyday! Have been bench running a new S.T. 61with no manifold gasket and noticed black oil seeping out. Did not realize the metal to metal issue, I put thin coat of hi-temp red silicon to attempt to seal. I run at least one plane with an inverted engine and they can suck up a lot of crud. I like the coarse filter, but I suppose it depends a great deal on field conditions, how reliable the engine,that is no crash landings, and how good a pilot you are. Murphy and his stupid laws seem to follow my every move.

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 6

Something to talk about - 2/24/2002 2:06:21 AM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10844
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I've seen this exhaust gasket debate before and my experience has been that he gasket lets the muffler move just enough to wear the gasket away and get looser until the holes are elongated. I've never had one without a gasket come loose or make black oil come out, however I use enough loctite to fill around the bolt and it cannot start to move. I think most agree that no gasket is better, lets find out.

_____________________________

"I have gone faster backwards, upside down and on fire than most people have gone at all" Don Garlits

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 7

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/24/2002 6:35:25 PM   
Elwood



Posts: 1512
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Wayne, NJ,
Status: offline 		The gasket issue would depend on the quality of the machining, I think. And OS has great machining! Don't bother unless you see a problem.

_____________________________

Born in the U.S.A.......Not quite as long ago as Art!!!!!!!

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 8

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/24/2002 8:31:19 PM   
LDaba



Posts: 178
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Queens, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Aug: (interesting moniker )
I always use an air filter on my engines. You'd be surprised what an engine will ingest: grit, bugs,sand, bits of weeds, in short the flotsam & jetsom of life. (pretty poetic , huh? : )

A simple filter can be made out of a double layer of pantyhose cut to approximate size and held in place by an O ring. Its cheap and it works! ( how you get the panyhose is your affair )

The gasket couldn't hurt. I find I cant get a tight seal with some engines and an exhaust residue leaks from the joint. Gasket material is cheap and available from an auto parts store. Just trace around the exhaust manifold and provide openings for the screws and exhaust port and your done.

I am not experienced with OS engines, so I can't offer any valid advice on their operation.
I use Super Tigre and Webra engines. In these I use Tower Hobbies plugs and also Fox plugs. Both work well in either engine.

Your last comment on not using a cowl will definitely assist in engine cooling. Don't forget that you are omiting weight that will affect the overall balance of the model. Weigh it exactly as you will fly it except DO NOT add fuel.

While on the subject of balance, weigh it laterally. (wingtip to wingtip) If it has a heavy wing, it will tend to pull to that side on some maneuvers, especially at lower speeds.To laterally balance
the model, suspend it inverted. Secure a string around the crankshaft and bottom hinge of the rudder. Check to see if the wings are level. If one is lower than the other, lift the plane slightly so the tension is off the string and you are supporting the weight of the plane. Lower the plane and repeat the test. If you get the same results, adjust the string (move it so that it will reseat itself around the crankshaft & hinge when you lower the plane)and repeat the test. If the same wing is consistantly lower, you have a heavy wing.
Place weight on the high wing tip (I use sheet metal screws) until it balances. When they're level you have balanced the plane. Add the weight to the wing tip. ( I just screw them into the tip. I bevel the edge of the hole so the screw head is flush with the tip outline. I then spot cover the holes.
Well that's it.
Happy landings Tony

_____________________________

Keep 'em Flying
Anthony Puleo, AMA11973

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 9

Inverted balancing? - 2/24/2002 10:36:58 PM   
wsmalley



Posts: 1041
Joined: 2/16/2002
From: Monterey, TN, USA
Status: offline 		I have balanced several of my planes as you mention-especially gliders- but never inverted. Are you suggesting all planes-hi wing, low wing,etc. should be balanced inverted. But officer, I was only asking her for pantyhose to fix my carb!

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 10

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/24/2002 11:33:07 PM   
snsmith



Posts: 332
Joined: 1/11/2002
From: Greenville, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Carb air filter: At 11,500 RPM, a 46 engine is sucking in around 3CFM of air through a 1/2" carb throat. My personal opinion is restricting air flow into the engine with an air filter is counterproductive unless you fly in a really sandy/dirty environment or plan on driving your engine into the ground.

Muffler gasket: If you have gasket stock laying around, it can't hurt. It will prevent the black oil output and keep your muffer a bit cleaner (or at least cleaner longer).

Plugs: Use an older or cheap one for the first couple of runs and then switch to an OS #8 (I think they are better than the OS A# versions). Your mileage may vary...

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 11

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/25/2002 1:06:48 AM   
LDaba



Posts: 178
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Queens, NY, USA
Status: offline 		WS: I laterally balance a plane inverted to keep the weight below the balance points. This creates a pendulum effect. It will amplify any difference and make it more apparent.
I have used this method with high, mid & low wing planes. I have also used it with bipes.

SN: I have not experienced any noticable difference using the "pantyhose"filter or not. The tach readings are the same.
There might be some difference but I can't tell. I'd rather have the filter & a better chance at longer engine life.
As the saying goes," You pays your money & you makes your choice"

Happy landings Tony

_____________________________

Keep 'em Flying
Anthony Puleo, AMA11973

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 12

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/25/2002 5:06:14 AM   
Auger Din



Posts: 60
Joined: 2/5/2002
From: SE Michigan
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by LDaba
Aug: (interesting moniker )
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for all the information guys. I still haven't made up my mind as to whether or not to use the filter and muffler gasket yet. But you've given me some more stuff to chew on. I'll have to see what my instructor has to say.

As for plugs, I've just gotten a supply of #8's from a HLS thats closing out so I'll stick with them. Sorry to see the place go, but picked up A LOT of loot at good prices.

As for my moniker, it was given to me by a flying buddy when I crashed my first glider. It was an Electra by Goldberg, and I'd had many many flights on it. During the last one I felt confident that I could loop it, and tried to do so. The wing didn't hold up, and the plane did a couple of hundred foot fall with a graceful shatter at the end of it :

Any way, he pronounced it one of the more graceful crashes he'd seen. And in the retelling of the story, see introduced me to his friends as the one who Augered In. Thus the name stuck.

Darn guy couldn't have called me Ace, or something cool like that could he? :

_____________________________

If you woke up breathing, congratulations. You have another chance.

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 13

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/25/2002 7:52:28 AM   
hollewud7


 

Posts: 33
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: Acushnet, MA, USA
Status: offline 		No airfilter neccesary. Gaskets are not only not needed your worse off using them because you want the heat to expand the muffler at the same rate so no gasket. and for the glow plug it doesnt matter which one you use all of them are good. by the way i have the same engine, dont have an airfilter on it nor a gasket. I think I ahve an A3 glow plug and it works great

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 14

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/25/2002 8:16:48 AM   
mrbonk



Posts: 600
Joined: 2/18/2002
From: BundabergQueensland, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Just to add my .02 to the debate, I've got an OS.46FXH engine in my heli and I used to have oil coming out of where the muffler bolts on. I tried a couple of things, from paper gaskets to thin plastic, but they didn't work. Came loose in short order and blew out the side, making for a very loud engine I then read somewhere on the 'net that you could lay a couple of pieces of teflon plumbers tape across the opening and use that as a gasket. I did as the advice suggested.....put 2 layers of plumbers tape across the opening of the exhaust manifold without bothering to cut the middle out, loctited the bolts and put them back in and fired it up. It blew through the plumbers tape covering the manifold outlet with no problems at all and hey presto, no leaks.....not even a little bit.

As for plugs, I've been using Enya#3 plugs. I started with OS#8's, but since I started using these Enyas I haven't bothered trying anything else. They outlast the OS plugs by a LONG margin and give a better idle (in MY engine anyway).


_____________________________

MrBonk
http://www.mrbonk.com

(in reply to Auger Din)
       Post #: 15

A few questions about carb filters... - 2/25/2002 9:40:04 AM