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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 11/4/2007 1:41:37 AM   
Mike Connor



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From: Tulsa, OK, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales

I am not going to glass my center section either. Mainly because I will have the advantage of a fully sheeted wing.


The only reason for the glass on the center section on the bottom is because it is a belly lander. Many landings will take its toll on the 1/16" balsa if you are lucky enough for it to last that long.


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Mike
http://www.mikesrc.us/

(in reply to Speedy-Gonzales)
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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 11/4/2007 1:53:29 AM   
Speedy-Gonzales


 

Posts: 275
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Bryan, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Just have never had that good of luck getting iron-on coverings to stick to fiberglass cloth and resin. I suppose I could install a skid runner on the bottom. ChuckL....what did you do?

(in reply to Mike Connor)
       Post #: 202

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 11/4/2007 2:00:17 AM   
Mike Connor



Posts: 1380
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales

Just have never had that good of luck getting iron-on coverings to stick to fiberglass cloth and resin. I suppose I could install a skid runner on the bottom. ChuckL....what did you do?

I cover the bottom in two pieces that overlap in the center by about 1/2". It doesn't have to stick all that well but mine usually does stick if I use a little extra heat. My first Dust had the bottom get a little soft after about 75 landings and I thought this would help with only a little extra weight. I usually use 3/4 oz cloth.

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Mike
http://www.mikesrc.us/

(in reply to Speedy-Gonzales)
       Post #: 203

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 11/4/2007 2:07:55 AM   
Speedy-Gonzales


 

Posts: 275
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Bryan, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Will do! I've came this far...might as well do it right! Thanks Mike! SG

(in reply to Mike Connor)
       Post #: 204

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 11/4/2007 5:58:36 AM   
freakingfast


 

Posts: 800
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: mather, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I use a product called Stix-It made by SIG. It is heat activated glue and adhesion enhancement. It's brushed on all the surfaces that the Ultra Coat will contact. Works well on fiberglass, epoxy, plastic and of course wood. Brush it on in one coat quickly and thinly but well covered. If you get lumps or little bubbles you need to change your technique. It can be thinned just bit if you must with Sig Butyrate dope thinner. Best results are when applied in temps under 80 degrees. Let it dry to the touch before you try to cover in about an hour. It seems to work many days after it's been applied so there's no rush. You can sand it if you must with some loss of function once it's dried a few days, just don't make friction heat. Do test RUNS first. Do this out side or where you can get away from the fumes. The covering can be removed with the use of a heat gun but it ain't fun nor pretty.

This stuff is great to put back down loose covering! Pull back the loose covering and wipe clean with paper towel dampened with denatured alcohol. Be careful not to wipe through to the color. Next wipe the wood side with acetone, you just want to get the oil off the surface not soften the glue that holds the plane together. Don't get the acetone on the covering you could take the color right off fast! Let the wood dry 10 minutes or so before applying Stix-It to the wood side with a brush or Q-tip(s). Don't let it wick into corner where you have the covering pulled back or you will have a lump there later. When dry to the touch, iron down the covering.

Hope this helps

_____________________________

When in doubt, give it full power. The smaller
pieces fit easier in the bag! Revver Bro #201

(in reply to Speedy-Gonzales)
       Post #: 205

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 1:37:01 AM   
Speedy-Gonzales


 

Posts: 275
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Bryan, OH, USA
Status: offline 		The only downside I can see using the STIX-IT is that it adds no rigidity to the airframe where the epoxy or polyester resins will. I coat the area to which you want to apply F/G cloth with a coat of nitrate dope or balsarite first to seal the wood. This is where most guys get such a weight build-up when applying F/G cloth and resin. The balsa is like a sponge when not sealed first and the weight is doubled because half the resin soaks into the wood. Only one coat of sealer is needed with a good sanding when fully dried to remove the "fuzz". I always keep a few pieces of used sandpaper on my bench for this task. Then apply your cloth and resin. Works for me. Give it a try. Speedy

(in reply to freakingfast)
       Post #: 206

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 6:03:54 AM   
freakingfast


 

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From: mather, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy-Gonzales

Just have never had that good of luck getting iron-on coverings to stick to fiberglass cloth and resin. I suppose I could install a skid runner on the bottom. ChuckL....what did you do?


Speedy
My post was in response to your question. Stix-It is for covering, i.e. Ultra Coat. It helps it stick much better to previously applied F/G cloth, epoxy or other surfaces.
It's not for "glassing."

_____________________________

When in doubt, give it full power. The smaller
pieces fit easier in the bag! Revver Bro #201

(in reply to Speedy-Gonzales)
       Post #: 207

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 3:07:43 PM   
Speedy-Gonzales


 

Posts: 275
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Bryan, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Comprende Amigo!!! You apply the Stix-it over the previously applied F/G cloth then put the final covering over the top. Do you think the Stix-it gives better adhesion than Balsarite on balsa or are you advising the Stix-it for application over fiberglass cloth and resin only? I am curious which product is better on just plain balsa too. Regards! Speedy

(in reply to freakingfast)
       Post #: 208

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 4:29:09 PM   
freakingfast


 

Posts: 800
Joined: 1/3/2005
From: mather, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I have not tried Balsarite, but it look like I need to
As many deltas as I'm building, I'm always looking for the best/easy way.

_____________________________

When in doubt, give it full power. The smaller
pieces fit easier in the bag! Revver Bro #201

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       Post #: 209

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 7:44:22 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9784
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: offline 		To use iron on covering over FG has always been trouble for me, the gas bubbles are hard to control. For the FG belly armor on a little delta, I don't care if the covering sticks to it or not. For other FG parts, like fins and cowls.......I just gave up with covering and paint them with Glasskote.

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Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

(in reply to freakingfast)
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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 10:00:29 PM   
Speedy-Gonzales


 

Posts: 275
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Bryan, OH, USA
Status: offline 		At 180 mph it becomes an issue whether the covering sticks to the airframe or not! LOL! Glasskote? Now there's a good idea! SG

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       Post #: 211

RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/22/2007 10:16:16 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9784
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: offline 		I've got a couple of open framework planes that do about that speed, and the covering hangs in there OK. When it comes to getting coverings to stick to resins, I think resins have a wax film build as they cure? So wiping the cured resin down and sanding it should help the covering stick, also.

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Led Zeppelin is NOT "old fogie" music.

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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/26/2007 5:08:51 AM   
gooseF22


 

Posts: 655
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline 		OK
here we go...I ordered a kit from mike today.

My first thought is my little 28-40-2500 medusa on 8 cells of 2300 A123 turning a 5.5x4.5 apc if I can get the nose streamlined enough. I am running this setup on 6 cells now with the same prop, so I will have to trim the prop a bit to prevent overload. I have gotten 65 amps from 6 cells with this setup, thats my first thought. just tweak the prop for a target of no more than 80 amps on 8 cells of 2.35 volts under full load. that little motor is a speed 400 by design, but it is simply amazing and doesn't heat. I mount it in a heat sink, and the ESC is in the wind. Its currently installed in a nitro .25 bobcat...the little yellow one that came out this year. It does about 100 with the 5.5x4.5 on 6 cells. I just ran medusa motor calc with 5x4.5 and 8 A123 cells. I think I will experiment with that on my bobcat when the weather clears as a possible elec setup. thats 22ounces of battery plus about 5 ounces of controller and motor. so the motor/radio gear with servos and BEC...about 2 pounds. 1200 watts and 40,000 rpm. Might require hearing protection though for the scream. A 5.25 inch prop maxes out at 44000 rpm, but it sure makes a ton of thrust when the tips are up around .9 mach....

What does the plane/covering comeout to?

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Goose
Team Fromeco

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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/26/2007 5:51:20 AM   
Mike Connor



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Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Tulsa, OK, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooseF22

OK
here we go...I ordered a kit from mike today.

What does the plane/covering comeout to?

I was wondering what you were going to put in it. This should be interesting. That is a small diameter prop but it should produce enough thrust because of the rpm.

The last one I built came out to just under one pound for the airframe covered. Make the wing tips thin and a little sanding should keep your weight down. You won't need the fuel proofing either.

There are a couple of people building one for electric but I have not seen any pictures yet. I do have a couple pictures of an electric Dust if you want ideas on how to mount the motor.


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Mike
http://www.mikesrc.us/

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RE: (Something Fast?) Delta Build Thread - 12/26/2007 1:21:12 PM   
freakingfast


 

Posts: 800
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From: mather, CA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooseF22

A 5.25 inch prop maxes out at 44000 rpm, but it sure makes a ton of thrust when the tips are up around .9 mach....



With this setup mounted in a Ultracote covered speaker frame, it should be a real loud Screamin Demon! I LLLLLLLLLike IT!