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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/3/2007 10:09:19 PM   
w8ye



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From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Cool Power oil is all synthetic and mixes with methanol readily

All caster is very easy to get. The usual brand seen is Sig

But you can use drug store castor also

You can get Omega oil which is a mix of synthetic and castor

Klotz sells Benol and Super TechniPlate as well as methanol and Nitro-oil. Look on their web site

http://www.klotzlube.com/storeCats.asp?ci=8

< Message edited by w8ye -- 7/3/2007 10:15:19 PM >

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/3/2007 10:42:08 PM   
Jim Thomerson



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Status: offline 		It was posted on another forum that a horse supply place or vet would have castor oil in quantity. Not sure why.

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 12:59:50 AM   
somegeek



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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 1:58:36 AM   
PlaneKrazee



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Status: offline 		I use Klotz castor or Sig. One of the main advantages of ethanol over methanol is it doesn't produce nitric acid when burned so your bearings will last longer and you can use caged needle bearing con rods without fear of them failing as when running methanol. OS seems to have been able to get ethanol to work in glow engines. I have read that ethanol has 40% more btu's than methanol, still less than gasoline but I don't know the exact figures off the top of my head.

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 2:25:20 AM   
gkamysz


 

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Status: offline 		Ethanol's lower heating value is 35% higher than methanol. The air fuel ratio also means that only 71% as much ethanol is burned per cycle. It ends up a wash in BTU per cycle, theoretically. You also have to deal with combustion efficiency. There must be some loss there otherwise the engines would make similar amounts of power.

Mixing fuel using E85 should be pretty economical. I'd like to know how the glowplug is different. I'm thinking it use a different metal for the element.

I doubt you will see roller bearings in sport engines any time soon.

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 2:34:14 AM   
gkamysz


 

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Status: offline 		I just found that the AX-55-BE makes .95HP @ 10kRPM. The FSa-56 four stroke is rated at 1.0HP @ 10kRPM. Sure the AX-55 makes 1.7HP @16k but most people don't run it at 1.7HP. Most are probably closer to 1-1.2hp. Anyone have a HP plot of the AX-55?

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 5:15:27 AM   
XJet


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skypilot_one
One of the main advantages of ethanol over methanol is it doesn't produce nitric acid when burned so your bearings will last longer and you can use caged needle bearing con rods without fear of them failing as when running methanol.


Eh, this is all news to me.

The combustion byproducts of methanol are nothing more than CO2 and water. Where does the nitric acid come from?

Here is the formula if you're interested:

2CH3OH + 3O2 → 2CO2 + 4H2O + heat

If you're running nitromethane then there is nitrogen added to the equation which can lower the PH a bit but methanol is a very clean-burning fuel that doesn't create any nitric acid.

Nitromethane may create acidic combustion byproducts when used with methanol, but it will also do the same if used with ethanol.

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 6:28:30 AM   
PlaneKrazee



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Status: offline 		Greg,

The OS 55 eco engine may have roller bearings. It is supposed to use much less oil thanstandard engines from my understanding of the advertisment.

XJet,

Just passing on what I have read and also what I have learned from guys running methanol in drag engines. Raw methanol can be very corrosive and will begin to corrode those engines sometimes in minutes, they don't have oil mixed with the fuel to help prevent it. They would wipe the parts down and wash them in gas to prevent it. Have you ever seen the process of how it's made?

B

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 9:19:21 AM   
XJet


 

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Status: offline 		What they're probably referring to is the corrosive effect that pure methanol has on many alloys of aluminum.

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 1:31:45 PM   
PlaneKrazee



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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet

What they're probably referring to is the corrosive effect that pure methanol has on many alloys of aluminum.


XJet,

Yes,

I believe that is correct. Why would that be if it is just alcohol?

I think the products of combustion change a bit due to the methanol manufacturing process. I had purchased a (used) 4 stroke model engine that had a weak aluminum case that had been attacked by the fuel. Some areas were close to crumpling.

< Message edited by Skypilot_one -- 7/4/2007 5:18:29 PM >

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 2:04:24 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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quote:

One of the main advantages of ethanol over methanol is it doesn't produce nitric acid when burned so your bearings will last longer and you can use caged needle bearing con rods without fear of them failing as when running methanol. OS seems to have been able to get ethanol to work in glow engines.


As Xjet said there is no nitrogen from methanol so there is no nitric acid. But even if true, how did it get into the bearings? There are no bearing issues when using nitromethane, other than when running high RPM's.
quote:


Nitromethane may create acidic combustion byproducts when used with methanol, but it will also do the same if used with ethanol.
Incomplete burning of nitromethaned produces nitric acid, but its not there till it burns. Even a small amount of methanol allows nitric acid (a potent rocket fuel) to burn off in the atmosphere. It is not a signicant pollution hazard such as nitric oxides from a gas engine, which our engines do not produce because of the low temps.

< Message edited by Sport_Pilot -- 7/4/2007 2:12:37 PM >

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 7/4/2007 5:14:04 PM   
gkamysz


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: XJet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skypilot_one
One of the main advantages of ethanol over methanol is it doesn't produce nitric acid when burned so your bearings will last longer and you can use caged needle bearing con rods without fear of them failing as when running methanol.


Eh, this is all news to me.

The combustion byproducts of methanol are nothing more than CO2 and water. Where does the nitric acid come from?

Here is the formula if you're interested:

2CH3OH + 3O2 → 2CO2 + 4H2O + heat

If you're running nitromethane then there is nitrogen added to the equation which can lower the PH a bit but methanol is a very clean-burning fuel that doesn't create any nitric acid.

Nitromethane may create acidic combustion byproducts when used with methanol, but it will also do the same if used with ethanol.



That assumes perfect oxidation of the fuel. What happens when the engine is run rich like most are? There isn't enough oxygen available to complete the reaction.

One could assume that there are roller bearings in the AX-55-BE, but I wouldn't go that far. OS doesn't have a single engine with a bearing rod. OS documentation on the Bioethanol reads like propaganda. It gives this really good feeling about saving the earth and quotes only one thing about the nitric acid. Castor has been and could be used as a bio friendly lubricant. Methanol can be bio friendly depending on how it's made. Ethanol is just a catch phrase today to keep some people happy. Whether or not it turns out practical and powerful remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I'd love to get a hold of a glow plug.

So the engine uses less oil? Well, wait a minute. The engine already uses less fuel. So if the engine burns 40% less fuel in one hour it will have used 40% less oil even if the oil percentage is the same! Their advertising isn't technically wrong or misleading, it just doesn't define the standard it's being compared to.


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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 4/11/2008 6:27:07 PM   
borna


 

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Status: offline 		One option is to convert your engine to run on Gas like what I did

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6165393/anchors_6165393/mpage_1/key_borna/anchor/tm.htm#6165393

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 4/12/2008 1:11:57 AM   
Jezmo



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Status: offline 		Hey borna, how's it going? How is the 120 running?

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 4/12/2008 1:39:41 AM   
the Wasp


 

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Status: offline 		after running 2 gallons of straight Methanol (no nitro) threw my son's 180 Magnum 4st I can say it's not for this engine, it would take as many is 10, 15 flips to start it and it would idle ruff,, while with 10% nitro it would start with 1 flip,, and (of-course) idle better/smoother and produce more power..

Jim

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RE: Alternative fuels for glow engines - 4/12/2008 4:17:22 AM   
borna