RE: YT/KMP FW-190A  
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 8:56:46 AM   
bigtim


 

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people wonder why the complaints come out around scale accuracy its the $$$they want for them people.

if your going to have to spend 650$ for a aprox.60-80 size warbird then shoulden't it be closer to the scale outline.

I would think so,like so many have pointed out, it costs no more to make a plug that is as accurate as possable in profile.
as long as you have a flyable airplane of course. some consessions sometimes need to be made, but some of the points being made are seriously legitimate .

forums like this one are full of information, you would have thought that a company with the rep of YT/KMP would have gone out and solicited information from there adoring public, so they would have bragging points on there scale looks.
there have been numerous posts about there other planes and how good they look and how scale they are lord knows I have read them add nausium.

here's a prediction, I would bet in the next couple of years H-9 comes out with a couple of axis planes,and for 270$ they will sell like hot cakes, not because they have the scale details, but because there close in there looks to the plane there trying to represent, they fly easy, are not that expensive,and come with there flimsy H-9 retracts which keep the cost down and do work.

even CMPro is sold out of there FW 190 and enough has been said about that one to fill a library, but people will suck up the bad points for less$$$ the more you pay the more accurate the model should be thats the bottom line is it not.
it's not because it's composite construction big deal that means nothing to the average modeler joe average wants a plane that looks good and for the money it better look good.

if this plane had come out at 499$ like so many of there other planes, I don't know how much complaining there would be,a little I am sure because nobody is ever satisfied no matter how cheap,but ask top dollar and let the criticism begin,its to be expected.
there has been no word from YT/KMP about "this is the first run if you want it for less then get this one the new and improved one will be out later this year at the regular price"or somthing like that the silence is defening.

if this is there production run and there won't be any corrections or refinements then its obvious there not listening to there fan base,there was a heated debate obout the high prices of skyshark kits and how there for the "diserning modeler" and all that hoey,the reply from the owner was "it's my party and if you don't like it then leave" so everybody did.
any one noticed there aint no more skyshark kits available

kits are going away fast, at least the ones that offer variety,like skyshark did for instance.

modelers want scale accuracy,I have a building collection of kits, if I build one a year then I am killing it,the 2 H-9 planes I have are not the scale wonders I would like but they do fill a void in my collection and when there flying they don't look too bad either for 259.00.

for the apologists I would say go ahead and buy it if its works for you ,for the detractors save your $ and keep glueing that balsa simple as that,speak with your wallets.

I guess I will end up building that FW-190 A8 kit this winter after all.

by the way where is the company men with some answers to the questions being posted,inquiring minds wan't to know, how they feel about there product and what the public at large is saying.

< Message edited by bigtim -- 7/22/2007 9:11:42 AM >

(in reply to Richard L.)
       Post #: 76

RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 6:20:08 PM   
Evil_Merlin


 

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by the way where is the company men with some answers to the questions being posted,inquiring minds wan't to know, how they feel about there product and what the public at large is saying.


Exactly my point. They DON'T care. Why not? Because people (which this thread is littered with) are willing to accept these products simply because "they look good enough".


(in reply to bigtim)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 8:36:08 PM   
vik



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Well it is a sad, that YT (ESM) went bit off scale here, but I have their 109 and I like it.
To defend them a litle, it is MUCH MORE SCALE THAN CMP!!!
They are not cheap, they are full composite (no foam wings etc)

I do not run a business in hobby sector, so I don´t know how much more expencive is to have more scale plug.
I´m not speaking about size of turbocharger bubles, but for example the fuse bend...

I like model to look like real thing, I do not want it ready for scale masters like SiST or other manufacurets (with great products!)
I wisht that ESM will continue with nice range of scale enough models like the 109 was

(in reply to Evil_Merlin)
       Post #: 78

RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 10:07:48 PM   
Evil_Merlin


 

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Thats what I don't understand, the Bf109, and others are at least closer to scale than this one is. No the other planes are not perfect, but the fuse fidelity is there.

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       Post #: 79

RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 10:22:21 PM   
Luxuswaffe



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No, the Me 109 has also its scale design flaws like the enlarged tail, the gear angle. In flight you can't even see a difference. It looks like a 109 and flies like one according to the pilots who flew them during the war. So that is with the upcoming FW 190. There is some sacrifice to flying capabilities. We are free to decide what to do with our monies. Sist and Airworld have nice scale planes. Whoever wants to spend their asking price is free to do so. Though I agree with Richard L. in his opinion, I will probably end up with the FW 190 for the wintermonths. This is a hobby. Not a world ideology. Just my thoughts. Don't beat me.

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(in reply to Evil_Merlin)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/22/2007 11:12:20 PM   
Evil_Merlin


 

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Um, since when are the tail and gear angle the fuse?

Again, I will ask why didn't KMP take the time to fix these issues when we first started commenting on them when the first images of the fuse were released?

< Message edited by Evil_Merlin -- 7/22/2007 11:16:37 PM >

(in reply to Luxuswaffe)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 4:29:10 AM   
schweig1959


 

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Because this is not a perfect world and if it was, all would be bliss.

Rich

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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 12:16:52 PM   
Evil_Merlin


 

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There is a huge difference between perfection and doing a good job.

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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 3:31:21 PM   
MANFRED



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EM, ranting is an art form which quite a few of us practice to some degree or another, while some become virtual Michaelangelos. You are beating this poor horse to death and have not even seen the final product. Give it a rest. Your point on the manufacturer not getting it right the first time was taken 5 posts ago. You have the option to not purchase this ship. Personally I have ordered a primer version which should be here in September, Once painted and detailed I can guarantee you will blow away any scale ship at my local field because nobody does scale to any degree. They will gawk and oogle over the FW-190 and not one will notice the discrepencies and I will fly her and enjoy every minute of it. I will never compete in any competition for if I did, it would be with a scale fidelity, fully detailed, built from plan ship. These arfs are a form of entertainment, not museum pieces. Like it, buy it. No likey, no buyee!

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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 4:15:05 PM   
RodanAZ


 

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I've got to agree with Manfred. ARFs are not intended for competition, they're meant to fly. With a little detailing, they look fantastic for what they are meant to be: fun! If you want a competition scaler, build one from plans. Personally, I don't have the time, or space to build at the moment, so ARF's allow me to enjoy the sport with a lot less hassle. I'm willing to put up with some minor inaccuracies for the convenience.

When you consider that this plane comes with air/spring retracts, oleos, and al. wheels, the price isn't that much more than the Hangar 9 fleet, and IMHO, the KMP birds are much nicer looking.

I do agree that it is no harder to make a plane scale in profile from the start, but if you're not competing, it certainly won't prevent you from flying the thing. I also wish it could be bought without the retracts at a (significantly) lower price, so the buyer can pick what they want. If KMP were to go that route, I think they'd sell a LOT of airplanes.

(in reply to MANFRED)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 5:33:06 PM   
LuftwaffeOberst



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I like the looks of the KMP Warbirds. I would have never noticed that a few things were off to scale until it was mentioned. One thing I do know is when the German Aircraft Factories made there planes, they were not all exactly the same.

I read a report from the National Air Muse that when they took a part that Arado Jet Bomber for Restoration that it had a lot of filler... towards the end of the war it got worse with the need of supplies and materials.

The few experianced pilots that were left near the end of the war... also beefed up there planes. So I believe there is room for the German planes to be a little off from the drawings.

I spoke to Walter Schuck and spent a half a day with him and his son, so I learned a lot of inside info on how some of these planes flew, and what personal changes were made by there ground crew and personal. I took a Video of our meeting, and my wife talks with Mathias ( His son ) every week. Walters favorite plane is the Me-262 by the way, he didn't like talking about his kills, but he will talk about airplanes and flying. And he loves Scale R/C WWI and WWII Warbirds!

I have two Autographs from him, and I plan on meeting with him again next summer lord willing... He is getting old, but his mind is sharp as a whip!

KMP Keep up the good work, and Kondor, I thank you for your Personal Phone #. Hanger 9 or the rest out there never cared about my questions as a future customer, but you did.

Prototypes are Prototypes... they are not the final result. Thank you for the Press release Kondor. Looking forward in talking with you soon. Send more pics on the Focke Wulfs development.


Luftwaffe Oberst
Radio Aero Modelers Club
AMA District II
Pulaski, NY

< Message edited by LuftwaffeOberst -- 7/23/2007 5:36:18 PM >



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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 5:37:13 PM   
rrudytoo



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Manfred nailed it so I won't add any more fuel to the fire except to say that scale deviations occur in most every offering from plans to kits to ARF's. I'm currently building a Yellow P-47 that has numerous scale errors. So what! I'm not competing with it and I knew of the errors before I bought it. Even one of the founding fathers of scale, Mr. Dave Platt, has some discrepancies, though minor, in some of his designs. As for plans, Nick Ziroli is one of the very best. Does he deviate from scale? Uh, yes. I say again, "so what?" I know these things going in and if they are really important to me, I'll make changes.

Have you ever compared different 3-views of a given subject? It's a laugh! Even though each view is of the exact same subject the differences are obvious and puzzling. The rules for scale competition take this into account requiring the builder to provide scale fidelity based upon the 3-views he actually used, not just any 3-view.

Like RodanAZ said, no one will compete with an ARF so what's the point in whining? Either buy it and fly it or buy something else.

Al

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(in reply to MANFRED)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 6:41:20 PM   
Paul Morrison


 

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quote:

I also wish it could be bought without the retracts at a (significantly) lower price


I hear this alot, so I think its time we put it to bed. The retracts are not going to significantly change the price by inclusion or exclusion. We're not talking about a 300$ set of retracts here, the vast bulk of the cost of the aircraft is in the aircraft itself. The retracts add significant value at insignificant cost. If we were removing the retracts for folk, as some request, it might change it by 50$ max which is pretty insignificant. That's the unvarnished truth.




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Paul Morrison,
Sales, Media Design, Customer Service, Garbage man, web designer, Man of Many Hats, ------- KMP

(in reply to rrudytoo)
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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 8:17:56 PM   
Richard L.



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I'm going to sit back and let you folks be the guinea pig of the first batch. If the obvious problem areas are not fixed by the fourth batch, I'm just going to spend my $650 on another 1/16 Tamiya RC "scale" tank.

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RE: YT/KMP FW-190A - 7/23/2007 9:50:32 PM   
Paul Morrison


 

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quote:

1.) Why couldn't KMP take the time to do research before making the fuse plug?


All of our models are done from three way drawings in Catia, much the same as a real airplane. They then make the parts from those technical drawings in Catia.

As has been pointed out the fuselage shape is inconsistent from itself depending on which factory made the planes that the three ways were based on. The luftwaffe took planes from literally a dozen aircraft factories, and the design varied from factory to factory. We do the best with what we're given. You're basing it on pictures which are not perfect angle shots, and even then the difference is frankly very minor.

quote:

2.) Why doesn't KMP have an historian around, even part time to review products before they ship?


I actually happen to have an honours degree in Military History from Queen's University in Kingston, ON, but that's neither here or there. The funny thing is that sometimes we do things to scale, and people still com