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New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 10:11:16 AM   
RCLIVIN



Posts: 722
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Rayne, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Guys:
I have a whiplash & all I can say is it is awesome, rick makes a quality product for a reasonable price. I have seen the process they use to construct these planes, it is costly & a lot of work & I know a lot of money goes in to research & development of these planes. I for one will be getting a whiplash extreme in the near future, it is much stronger & lighter than the original & should be much faster. I personally am in this hobby for my own pleasure, I do not spend money to impress anyone but myself. I will get what I want out of this hobby as everyone should. Bashing a product that you know nothing about is not very cool & just the great customer service is worth a few extra bucks in my book. I want to go fast but I want a plane that can take a few bumps & bruises along the way & the whiplash fits the bill. If you don't want it or wont spend the money then "go fly a kite" but don't bash a company like ACM that is making our hobby better & faster. Keep em coming Rick, I think your products are great!!!!!

Gil

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       Post #: 51

Re: Re: Can't afford to lose much more.. - 3/9/2003 10:20:13 AM   
ChuckAuger



Posts: 5134
Joined: 12/5/2001
From: Pampa, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by jlong34016
"And BTW..seems like I recall a thread by you, way back when, ragging on the Whiplash guys. I recall Rick replying to you as Mr. Long about some gripe you had with the Whiplash or the company."

Yes you are correct. That was way back then. This is now. They addressed every single issue i had with the first run model. All the issues which i listed were solved to my satisfaction. If i had given them the opportunity first i could have saved myself a whole lot of aggravation. My fault. Even given the fact that i came on here first and complained bitterly, they treated me with the greatest respect i probably didn't deserve. Since then i purchased a second one with spiderman on it. And now a third.

And to be fair about it Mr. Auger...I believe 4 of the six issues were my own fault due to my limited skills of construction as you picked up on yourself.

As far as an arf vs prebuilt, i really didn't consider gluing on a fin and screwing in 20 fasteners building anything. But hey if you want to give me construction credit..i'll take it. [/QUOTE]

Ok then, I'm ready to drop this whole silly thing right here.

I hope you will, too. All this doesn't solve anything or make for very good comraderie. I apologize for questioning your building/covering skills and wish you the best of luck with whatever planes you build in the future.


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Breaking the Speed of Sound, Straight Down!

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       Post #: 52

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 11:01:40 AM   
banktoturn



Posts: 713
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Bloomington, MN,
Status: offline 		Mr. Broussard,

You don't GET to be good and pissed. Moreover, you DO have to justify your price, one way or another. This is the deal when you want to make your living by getting people to buy your product. You get to be good and professional, and good and informative. I find your attitude very disturbing, even though I agree with some of the comments you make about complainers 'going public'. I don't think I would do business with ACM now. Bottom line, for all your ranting, you did not explain where a doubling of the price came from.

banktoturn

< Message edited by banktoturn -- Mar 10 2003 2:33AM >

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       Post #: 53

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 3:49:39 PM   
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Philly back, Self proclaimed Whiplash expert lol yer right
I did consider having one way back in the day, but when i looked at the price, and then this issue of using super servos to move the elevons i decided to get the Magnum which is happy with 3001's, however the company i worked for closed and that all went out the window, I stuck with the Dust that was given to me for free, also happy on 3001's
Thats as far as my Whiplash knowledge goes apart from whats been on here, which has shown it to be a very popular "fit and forget" speed machine, bit of a high price but the idiot proof nature of it seem to be worth it. Like i've said before all credit to if for achieving that
It wasn't until one blew up that my idea it was a Kevlar hollow wing was also exploded.. very disappointing. ( not only dusts that can blow up hey )
So lets assume you made a loss or broke even on every single 1st gen Whip which is fair to assume with the time that goes into making one and you have to employ American workers ( Cha-Ching$$$ ). to break a profit was a 100% hike in price necessary?
Does the price difference show up in any speed difference?
I might be blowing bubbles out my &$$, but is a totally hollow wing possible with composites?? ( its been done on a plastic wing trainer ) with a molded in spar maybe, maybe even a bit of foam on the D box to make it a bit stiffer and ding proof. Most composite structures now seem to have a honeycomb filling to make it even lighter. surely this is better than foam and a hi-tec version such as this would be worth the price difference over its heavier sport spec little brother which i'd keep as an option.
Last thought.. seeing as the fins are CF leave the gel coat off them, let that weave show through, you'll sell more ( CF is like catnip to some ). imagine if the whole thing looked like that. wheres the drool icon when you need it

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(in reply to serge1)
       Post #: 54

justify price - 3/9/2003 7:44:46 PM   
jlong34016


 

Posts: 365
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: columbus, OR,
Status: offline 		Why does any business need to justify anything to you? If you dont think its worth your money then dont buy it. Its not all about you. Its not what its worth to you to buy..its what its worth to ACM to make. If nobody buys then either they will change something or not make it at all.

Something i think is unreasonable is the SR Batteries X250. Add up all the stuff for that, including extra packs at 70 a pop, and 110 dollar charger and you end up spending close to 700 dollars for a plane that hardly flies. But i bought one and they are still in business. I'll never buy another of those but im on my third lash.

And dont even talk about companies like DeBeers, Microsoft ect that have 10,000% profit margins.

(in reply to serge1)
       Post #: 55

too much for me... - 3/9/2003 7:59:00 PM   
phuffstatler



Posts: 729
Joined: 8/19/2002
From: Robinson, TX, USA
Status: offline 		My only comment is, that nothing is "nearly indestructable" at or near 200 mph. Million dollar Formula 1 cars come all to pieces when they hit the wall at 200 mph. If this, or any model airplane goes in at these kinds of speeds, I don't think anything would survive, including engine and electronics. Not even at half that speed, if it went straight in.


Even with all the high tech materials, and American workmanship, I think $400-600 is too much, for me...


For me. Not for others, perhaps. There are plenty of folks that have plunked down the 20,000 needed for BVM's twin turbine Rafale.


ACM, I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. If I could figure out how to sell my kits at $400 plus, I'd probably do it too! It's the American Dream!



phil in austin

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       Post #: 56

.. - 3/9/2003 8:02:33 PM   
BAGOSTIX



Posts: 650
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Broussard, LA, USA
Status: offline 		Mr. bankoturn, you're 100% correct when you say I should be good and professional, instead of good and pissed but I have trouble holding my tongue when it comes to defending ACM or my personal integrity.

Heres the rationale behind the price increase:

The whiplash extreme is the culmination of all of the previous designs with all the issues concerning weight, elevon resistance and anything else that was an issue improved and or eliminated through extensive development. Its the best that this design can be.. despite what you might think, developing anything does not come cheap.

The material cost has almost quadrupled, the labor cost has doubled, and the items included with the kit have increased also.

Do the math,

And by the way sir, by all means dont let my attitude disturb you, ultimately my responsibility is to provide a superior product and professional service and support.

I feel that we have done that and more..

And if you still feel that because of my attitude you wont do business with ACM, then all I can say is that your business will surely be missed..

thanks

_____________________________

Advanced Composite Manufacturing (ACM)
www.acmuav.com
rick@acmuav.com / bagostix@aol.com
Rick (BAGOSTIX) Broussard

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       Post #: 57

whiplash - 3/9/2003 8:09:04 PM   
BAGOSTIX



Posts: 650
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Broussard, LA, USA
Status: offline 		By the way, one item of great importance that I have overlooked is the liability issue.

What kind of liability do you suppose goes along with a 200 plus mph airplane?

If any of you have any more questions concerning the cost of the Whiplash Extreme, then please e mail direct at [email]BAGOSTIX@AOL.COM[/email]

I'll be happy to answer all of your questions.
I am finished with this forum and hope all of you understand.

We want all of you as customers and hope some of you reconsider your position regarding ACM.

thanks to all..

_____________________________

Advanced Composite Manufacturing (ACM)
www.acmuav.com
rick@acmuav.com / bagostix@aol.com
Rick (BAGOSTIX) Broussard

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       Post #: 58

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 8:14:25 PM   
IMAC Buff


 

Posts: 177
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: North Syracuse, NY,
Status: offline 		I guess I have to jump in here and say something. I personally love the the whiplash, I have has alot of fun with mine and it never fails to get the most attention at where ever I take it. Especially when it flys by at 160+. I have referred many, many, people to ACM to buy one of these baby's. It's not hard to sell something that is unique. I don't take credit for sending people to ACM because thats just not who I am. But I have to say it was much easier selling people on the whiplash at 200 bucks. But people have to remember about the American business system called supply and demand. As long as there are people out there that are willing to pay a certain price for a certain product, the price will never come down. And usually goes up. Just like Rick has said, if you don't like the price then don't buy. Do you go to Burger King and complain to the manager that the price of that Whopper is to high? Don't think so. The whiplash is a quality product, and you pay a premium price for quality.

Just my 2 cents

Craig

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       Post #: 59

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 8:40:09 PM   
phuffstatler



Posts: 729
Joined: 8/19/2002
From: Robinson, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, if I did walk into a Burger King, and the Whopper price went from $2.50 to $5.00, I would probably walk up the counter, he/she would ask me what I wanted, I would look up and see the price, say, "Nothing now, you doubled your prices for what appears to be the same product", then quietly turn and walk next door to Wendy's....

So, yes, I would say something.

Would the manager hear of it? Probably not, unless they were manning the counter. However, I think the bottom line will be affected, as fewer burgers get sold. ACM will see a similar thing, fewer airplanes will be sold, but perhaps they'll make the same money, perhaps more. I don't know for sure. They are offering a niche product in a niche market, we'll see how it does by how long they stay in business.


Supply and demand is one thing. ACM said the price went up because of materials and labor, not supply and demand. Not the same thing. New and improved doesn't mean cheaper.... and I understand that. This airplane just isn't for me. I like to go fast too, but not that fast, for that much. I'll keep my 'cheap' $400 (total of all components) Patriot as built by me, and only 125 mph.... and I get landing gear, too!



phil in austin

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       Post #: 60

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 8:45:19 PM   
FlooredCOBRA



Posts: 1425
Joined: 8/2/2002
From: Hampton, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I think that their might be a misunderstanding on the durability of the whiplash. Although I don't have one but just saying that some people might think it can take a ding at 150+ mph. I don't know it might but usually at those speeds i think anything will pretty much be destroyed. Then again it just may take a good ding don't know.

One advantage on the Lash i see would be being able to land safely and not search for a nice tall grassy patch. That is the only thing i don't like about my DD is after each landing having to hope like hell that i did not somehow land on something and then finding a pinhole on my covering. Don't get my wrong I know the safe spots to land at our field but sometimes i think little green men pop out of the ground and like to poke holes in my dust.

I think this is where the durability of the Lash would speak for itself and repeated flights over and over.

I just cant see spending $400 for it and being able to hide that from wife.

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       Post #: 61

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 9:22:33 PM   
Maudib



Posts: 5833
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Ashland, KY, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by phuffstatler
Actually, if I did walk into a Burger King, and the Whopper price went from $2.50 to $5.00, I would probably walk up the counter, he/she would ask me what I wanted, I would look up and see the price, say, "Nothing now, you doubled your prices for what appears to be the same product", then quietly turn and walk next door to Wendy's....
phil in austin [/QUOTE]


Actually that's not what happened... ACM came out with a new sandwich. A VERY EXPENSIVE Whopper Deluxe. The problem is, you can't still buy the good ole' Whopper. So while you thought you were going to go in and get a fair product at a fair price, you find that BK had become a 4 star restaurant.

I can't imagine WHY at that kind of price increase they didn't keep the previous Whiplash available for $200...

Seems to me if the it takes: (quoting their formulas)

1/2 the labor costs
1/4 the matrial costs
and less included items cost...

That it's a MORE PROFITABLE item to produce. Also seems there are ALOT of people who like the previous version just fine AND there is without a doubt (based on the sampling on this thread) a MUCH larger market for a $200 version.

Hey... business is business and they have every right to make their own decisions regarding this issue. But the truly successful business is one that listens to their customer base and responds with products that they want, at prices they can afford, the best they can.

I sure am glad that Futaba didn't stop making all radios except the 9Z, and JR stopped making all radios except the 10X, and so on, and so forth....


At any rate... I respect their interest to do as they please....

Now I'm heading over to:

[URL=http://www.diamonddustrc.com/Diamondd.htm]http://www.diamonddustrc.com/Diamondd.htm[/URL]

and check me out a new Diamond Dust...

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       Post #: 62

New whiplash priced doubled..Hey ACM come on!! - 3/9/2003 9:40:06 PM   
Maudib



Posts: 5833
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Ashland, KY, USA
Status: offline