HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL..  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Beginners >> HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL..
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HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 6/30/2007 8:03:01 AM   
<>


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I posted this in another page, but I really need help so I'm adding it here.

I have a CAP 21 plane made by Model Tech (.40 - .60 size).
It appears in ok condition - it is dusty though and it has some cracks in the surfacing (not sure if they are structural cracks or not) but the surface is made from some kind of painted fiberglass material.. (not sure what it is really)
It has an SC .61 engine to go with it.
I am just wondering if the cracks will stop it from flying correctly and also I need to know where to mount servo's, petrol tank etc.. I have no instructions.. is there anywhere that I could possibly get a set of instructions for one of these so I can make sure I have everything correct before attempting to fly it?

Regards

KJ
Australia.
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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 6/30/2007 4:39:53 PM   
Deadeye



Posts: 3785
Joined: 7/16/2002
From: Conrad, MT, USA
Status: offline 		This really depends on how bad the cracks are. Could you post some pictures?

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 7/5/2007 9:20:25 AM   
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Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Pics of cracks
The plane feels structurally sound but I haven't attempted to fly it yet..
Any help would be greatly appreciated! Especially Instructions!

KJ =)

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 7/5/2007 11:40:23 AM   
CGRetired



Posts: 4274
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Galloway, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Some of those cracks, especially the ones along what looks like the top of the horizontal stab could be cause for concern. One thing you don't want to lose while flying is your horizontal stab. You may wish to have someone more experienced take a good look at this fuselage to make sure that these are not structural in nature.

If these are just surface cracks, well, perhaps a little repair, some covering, or just leave them alone.. and give it a try. But be careful.

Don't just think 'well, if it crashes, well, so what' because that could cause you some severe heartburn. The what if.. could be what if it does break apart in flight and hits someone on the flight line? Then what would you do? Losing the horizontal stab during flight means you have completely lost control of that aircraft and where it is going to go next.

DS.

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/19/2007 8:39:20 AM   
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Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thanks for that,
I will get someone at my local club to check it out.
Does anyone know where I can mount petrol tank, servo's etc?? I have a Hitec Transmitter and Servo's (4 channel)
I Need some instructions!

Anymore help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

KJ :-)

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/19/2007 9:55:14 AM   
jetmech05


 

Posts: 1764
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		there are holes in the firewall for the fuel lines....isn't there mounting holes for the servos in the fuselage? If not you may have to get a servo tray.
You're not a beginner are you?

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/19/2007 3:50:06 PM   
abacro


 

Posts: 171
Joined: 10/14/2002
From: Gadsden, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Your not going to like hearing this,but DO NOT fly this plane untill you strip all the paint off it and re-glass the entire fuse! The fuse has been glassed,and all those cracks are structural fractures and breaks and need repaired. By looking at the pic's,the plane was painted not covered in covering,and sustained a severe crash to crack all the paint,wing hold down blocks and stab hold down blocks. Crash was most likely due to the infamous Cap-Snap on a take off.Repair the plane completely,then remove the main landing gear from the wing and place them in the fuse about 1 inch in front of the wing.This simple trick will stop the cap from snapping on take off only because it forces the cap to only lift it's tail off the ground when it is at it's true and actual flying speed. The Cap is a fantastic flying plane when set up correctly,i used to have 3 of them at one time,but thinned out my plane numbers over the years. Fuel tank goes in fuse just behind the firewall,reciever goes just behind the fuse former at the wings leading edge where the wing goes into the fuse,servo's ( throttle,rudder,and elevator) go into a tray located just past the mid-way point of the wing saddle,and aileron servo is located in the wing it's self. CG of plane is located between 3.5 to 4.5 inches back from leading edge of wing at the fuse with the plane inverted. Hope this information help's you out!


Good Flying

Art

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/19/2007 3:53:34 PM   
Capt Lou


 

Posts: 310
Joined: 1/3/2007
From: Manahawkin, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Some advice from an old timer who has been in this hobby for 23 years. Your Cap 21 question is posted in the "Beginner Forum" so my assumption is that you are a beginner. Welcome to the hobby, it's a lot of fun. My advice to you is that the Cap 21 is a hot plane and, as a beginner, don't try to fly it on your own until you have some good flying experience under your belt. I have made and flown a Cap 21 and it is a fun plane to fly, but it also is a fast and hot plane to maneuver and land. This is the type of plane that an intermediate flyer with a lot of flying time can handle. I also recommend that if you have access to a simulator with a Cap, get on it and practice. The Aerofly Professional Dekuxe Simulator by Ikarus has a Cap in it.

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/20/2007 1:59:17 AM   
PilotFighter



Posts: 2060
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think this plane was fiberglassed. Looks like they doped the wood and then painted it. Without Dacron, that finish would crack along joints very easily. And then some of the scars look like crash damage. Wiggle everything and see if anything moves. The plane is likely air worthy.
Snap21's were nasty, ill tempered planes that bit many a pilot early on. But they can be tamed. Limit the elevator travel. Crank up the ailerons slightly to reduce the tip stall tendency, and add nose weight. You can never completely remove the snappy tendency of these planes, but you can improve thier personality with these few changes.

< Message edited by PilotFighter -- 10/20/2007 3:51:28 AM >

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/20/2007 3:23:09 PM   
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Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Thanks for that everyone.
Yes I am a beginner, well I would class myself as one. I used to fly a bit.. a friends plane though, not my own.
I would like for this Plane to fly, so I am going to try everything possible to get it to do so!

abacro wrote: "remove the main landing gear from the wing and place them in the fuse about 1 inch in front of the wing.This simple trick will stop the cap from snapping on take off only because it forces the cap to only lift it's tail off the ground when it is at it's true and actual flying speed."

Is this necessary? I don't really want to remove the landing gear from the wings if I don't have to.
The wings are in great condition. the plane overall seems structurally sound, I applied a firm pressure to all the area's with cracks and it all seemed strong enough, but is strong enough to fly? I am not sure.
Just for looks I would like to fix up these cracks anyway.. what is the best way to repair over the cracks and achieve that glossy plastic look that they have used from factory?

Also......

PilotFighter wrote: "I don't think this plane was fiberglassed. Looks like they doped the wood and then painted it."

Forgive me for not knowing, but what does Doped the wood mean? do u mean dipped? and if so, in what?

All the help I can get would be fantastic!

Thanks everyone!

KJ :-)

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/20/2007 6:52:08 PM   
PilotFighter



Posts: 2060
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		THe old way of finishing models, and it still works great, was to paint the wood with a product called dope. Dope is a thick, but very light weight , clear substance, that dries very quickly and allows the grain of the wood to be made perfectly smooth. Typically, two or three coats of dope are applied. Then Dacron, a man made cloth similar to silk is applied using another coat of dope, or other adhesive. Then the weave is filled in with another few coats of dope. And the whole thing is then sanded smooth with 400. Its fast, easy and allows a great paint job to go on top. Actually, they even sell colored dope, so this would complete the project.

It appears , that your man only applied dope before painting. He didn't apply silk or Dacron. So the plane has no "hide". A fingernail could easily be depressed into the finish and the vibration and stresses of flight often cause cracks to appear in the finish all along the structure. Many of the cracks in your pictures appear to be the result of the technique in which the modle was finished. And a few appear to be the result of a minor crash. He might have used a product called silkspan. Its very much like tissue paper. Its great for small models. But doesn't offer the strength needed for an aerobat of this size.

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/21/2007 4:12:57 AM   
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Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Wow!
That's very interesting information! Thanks.
So to repair the surface, I would need to re-apply this "Dope" Substance? Where do I get it from? Do hobby shops sell it? Being an older plane, is this "Dope" still available?
And with this method, can I just replace the damaged sections or do I need to re-coat the whole plane? (I would loose all the Decals and colors if I was to do this)
Also, would I need to replace any of the balsawood? It doesn't appear to be broken anywhere, but then again, I can't really see inside the plane or underneath this "Dope" covering.
Would a wood glue be ok to apply to repair some of the cracks?
What is the process for repair using this "Dope" Method? If you know, please post here or E-mail me - it would be ever so helpful!

Thanks

KJ :-)

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/21/2007 4:46:26 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 17909
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		You should still be able to find butyrate dope or paint at the hobby shop?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=&FVSEARCH=aerogloss&search=Go

http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/ThumbsV5.html?L+Sig+uvge3547+_Ddp_5fSearch1_02a46PaintSigRetard_01Search_02Index_01SubMenu_02None_01Menu_02CatProd_01Thumb_02Dope_01

< Message edited by w8ye -- 10/21/2007 4:56:09 AM >

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/21/2007 1:43:24 PM   
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Posts: 16
Joined: 6/21/2007
From: NURIOOTPASOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I am in Australia, are these parts available here too?
does this Dope material come with instructions as to how to apply it?

Cheers,

KJ :-)

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RE: HELP WITH MODEL TECH CAP 21 MODEL.. - 10/21/2007 2:07:23 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 17909
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		These specific brands may not be available but I'm sure some brand is available to you in your country but maybe not in your town?

Even in the populated area where I live, I would have to order these paints as the local hobby shops do not carry them any more.

The paint does not come with instructions. You will have to gain that knowledge from the forums.

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Attended the CutFinger Institute of DirtNap University for years but never did graduate....

Club Saito Member #7
Original AMA #31261

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