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selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 1:34:34 PM   
ttoks



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selecting the right tuned pipe is probably one of the biggest you can think of, there are so many pipe out there it's not funny, and choosing the right one can be a bit of a problem.

we here a lot about how pipe A give you more bottom end grunt, and how pipe B is a good mid range pipe for balancing the top and bottom end, and how pipe C will give you loads of top end power, but how to we choose the right pipe for a particular engine? well it is really a very complicated matter, with a lot of maths involved (for you people out there who hate maths, don't worry, i have done it all in advance so you don't have to).

(all measurements in the following section are metric)

so let's get the complicated part out of the way first, you need to know what RPM range you are targeting, that is simple enough no?

once you know what the RPM you are targeting is, you need to figure our exactly how long the tuned length of your new pipe will need to be, the reason for this is simple, when the exhaust port open on your engine, the high pressure in the cylinder creates a bang noise, as we all know all sounds are waves in the air, so this bang noise creates a wave and to begin with a sonic vacuum in the exhaust pipe, this wave is moving at the speed of sound, and the vacuum helps to scavenge all of the burnt fuel and air out of the cylinder.

the speed of sound at sea level on a mild day is 344 meters per second, but with the engine being so small, we don't deal in meters, so we have to times that by 100 to get the speed of sound in centimeters (CM) per second, so the speed of sound is 34'400 CM per second.

now with the way a two stroke engine operates, some fuel and air is wasted out of hte exhaust port every time it opens, the tuned pipe puts that wast to use.

now we know the speed of sound, and we know the wave in the exhaust pipe is moving at the speed of sound, and we have some fresh unburnt air and fuel in the exhaust after the sound wave, the wave travel through the tuned pipe, and when it hits the end of the pipe, it bounces back, or echoes back towards the engine, we know that there is some unburnt fuel in the exhaust pipe as well.

the wave is now moving back towards the engine, with the unburnt fuel and air in front of it, so the unburnt fuel and air get pushed back towards the engine along with the sound wave, now if the tuned pipe is the right length for the RPM that the engine is turning, just before the exhaust port closes again, that extra unburnt air and fuel get's forced back into the engine, in essence supercharging your nitro engine.

now all this is all well and fine, but how does this help in determining how long the tuned length has to be? for this to work, the sound wave traveling in the pipe has to take exactly the same amount of time to get back to then engine as it takes for the piston to cover the exhaust port, so the engine rpm you are targeting and the length of the tuned pipe have to match up perfectly.

(in the following section this key applies:
S means Speed of Sound, the speed of sound for with article is 34'400 centimeters per second
RPM mean Revolutions Per Minute
TL means Tuned Length
/ mean divide
x mean multiply)

(the tuned length of the exhaust pipe is the length of the pipe and header combined)

we now know how the tuned pipe works, lets get onto how we find out how long it has to be.

the basic formula you need to use to determain this is S/(RPM/60)/2=TL, but to the average person, that is just a jumble of number and letters that mean nothing, i will break this down into a more understandable layout

S/(RPM/60)/2=TL

Speed of sound divided by the number of revolutions per second, divided by 2 = the tuned length you need

so, as an example, i will find the tuned length i need if i want my engine to perform better at 25'000 RPM

firstly you need to find out how many revolutions the engine will do per second at the RPM, so you divide 25'000 by 60, and you end up with 416.667, you then divide the speed of sound by this number and you will get 82.6 centimeters (CM), this is the total distance that the sound wave in the exhaust pipe must travel to get back to the engine just as the exhaust port is closing, you then divide 82.6 CM by 2 to get 41.3 CM, which is how long your new tuned length must be.


Now, what happens if you have a pipe and header and want to to use, but you don't know what RPM it is tuned for.

the basic formula for this is S/(TLx2)x60=RPM, but like finding what the tuned length must be, this is just a jumble of numbers and letters to most of us.

so what you must do is measure the the length of the pipe and header together, then you must times this number by two, you then divide the speed of sound by the number you got from multiplying the tuned length by two to get how many revolutions per second the pipe is tuned to, you then times that number by 60 to get what RPM the pipe and header is tuned for.

in the below example i am using the tuned pipe from the RB TM523 with the header for the traxxas REVO

i measured the length of the pipe and header together, and that number is 26 CM, so i multiply that by 2 to get 52 cm, you then divide the speed of sound which is 34'400 centimeters per second by 52 to get 661.5, you then multiply 661.5 by 60 seconds to get 39'690 RPM, so the pipe and header for the RB TM523 is tuned to 39'690 RPM.

so we know how it works, and how to get the right length, but then how much more power will this give me? well there is no exact answer to this, there are a lot of variables to this, the volume of the crankcase, the piston stroke and the exhaust port size, so it will vary from one engine to the next, but it is fairly safe to say that by adding a good, efficient tuned pipe, you will gain roughly 30% more power at that given RPM.

if notes a fualt with the article, or would like to add a suggestion, please pm me.

< Message edited by ttoks -- 7/18/2007 1:37:44 PM >


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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 2:47:38 PM   
Krixxer


 

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How would you account for pipe vol.

I have 3 pipes in front of me and they are between 25 and 27.5cm long

I checked the vol. using water and found that i can get the same length but slightly different volumes??

Do you think this would impact the calculations?

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 2:57:48 PM   
ttoks



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it is, but it isn't all to important, unless it's a large difference, but a lower volume pipe is more RPM specific then a high volume pipe, so a higher volume pipe will be effective for few rpm more over the critical rpm, and a few more rpm under the critical rpm, but it doesn't make all that much of a difference.

i would like to note however that engine displacement is completely irrelevant.

< Message edited by ttoks -- 6/30/2007 2:58:26 PM >


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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 3:37:37 PM   
downunder



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One minor thing is that you have to use the speed of sound for the temperature of the exhaust gas inside the pipe and not ambient speed of sound. A figure I recall reading was around 1400 feet/sec or ~43,000 cms/sec.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 3:43:35 PM   
ttoks



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edit-disregard this post-

sound actually moves slower through hot gases because hot gas is thiner, and sounds moves slower through thin gas (thin anything, the more dense, the faster sound travels through it, and the reverse is also true (thats why the speed of sound at ground level is around 1'200 feet per second, but at 60'000 feet it is around 1'000 feet per second)), but then exhaust gases are bound to be slightly thicker then air at ambient temp so just for now at least i'm gonna leave it as 34k cm per second.

< Message edited by ttoks -- 7/1/2007 7:26:23 AM >


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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 4:27:29 PM   
Krixxer


 

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since size makes little difference then we should all tune for "best area under curve" given a max RPM of ~40k and a usable power between 25k-35k a pipe should be tuned to take advantage of this range; pipe should be a min of 25.5 cm and not longer then 28cm.

I know this is a big generalization but is my logic reasonable?

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 4:29:51 PM   
ttoks



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yes, your logic is reasonable, although i am trying to show how to calculate the length of the pipe your after for the RPM range your aiming for, say some people want more low end power, so should tune there pipe to around 20k rpm, while others want hire end so should tune to 35k ect., not how to get max power, most pipes are tuned to around 5-10k under the max rpm off an engine, if it is the pipe made for that particular engine.

< Message edited by ttoks -- 6/30/2007 4:40:26 PM >


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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 6/30/2007 5:28:33 PM   
SAVAGEJIM



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This is a very good isntructional post and an excellent write-up. I am glad you took the time to do this, I knew you were a prodigious person when you and I were discussing multi-valve hemispherical combustion chamber 4-stroke engines.

I wanted to do a write-up on this, but I am now caught up on finishing my induction timing essay. Thank you very much for posting this essay of your own. This is the kind of stuff I and a few others totally dig; the more we introduce math and physics into the hobby, the more we eliminate the "there are too many variables" reasoning (I seriously hate this reason and excuse and when engine makers fall behind it when lying to us about their inflated advertised HP numbers).

Though there are more intricacies to deal with as for tuning by exhaust pipes, I am sure you are already factoring them in. But thank you so much for at least introducing this first step to us all.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 12:17:48 AM   
ttoks



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thanks SAVAGEJIM, that means a lot coming from you.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 4:39:48 AM   
downunder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: ttoks
sound actually moves slower through hot gases because hot gas is thiner,

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-speedsound.htm

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 7:19:48 AM   
SAVAGEJIM



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Way execellent thread! As soon as I hit that link, i spent the next hour dabbling with the formulae! Thanks for posting that.

So for those trying to tune by pipe, read on.
Yes, in normal ambient conditions that we mostly are in, say 75degrees F, the speed of sound is consierably more than 331m/s. According to that calculator of that link, sound moves at speed of 345.6m/s, which will affect tuning by pipe a significant factor. Some places are considerably hotter, for example, where I am at, the temps normally reach 100degrees F during the summer (this year is an exception however, it has been extremely raining this year and therefore very cool, say 95degrees F.)

how does 100degree F temp affect tuning by pipe? The speed of sound is 353.6m/s. Considering that the speed of sound is 331m/s at standard temperature, at 100degrees F, the speed of sound increases by almost 10%! This is a significant factor when choosing a pipe & header length for the purposes of tuning by pipe.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 7:23:10 AM   
ttoks



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hmm thats interesting, my understanding has always been that sound moves slower in hot air, because when airs hot the molecules are further apart so it takes longer for the movement of one molecule to the next, and when i did the calculations for the RPM that the RB pipe is tuned to with the new speed of sound (43'800 cm per second) i i got 50'538 RPM, which simply cannot be right.

< Message edited by ttoks -- 7/1/2007 8:27:35 AM >


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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 11:17:52 AM   
Anthoop



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Here's a link with a speed of sound formula/calculator.
Interesting to note how much the speed alters in different gasses. http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/sound_speed_gas.htm
Also a tuned pipe link http://www.maxxtraxxusa.com/Tuned_Pipes_3608.cfm

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 12:29:25 PM   
ttoks



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yes that is all fine and dandy, but then we are still left with the problem that at the temp the the exhaust gases of around 350 F would mean the tuned pipe for RB is tuned to 50k rpm, the engine doesn't even rev to 50k RPM so this is impossible, so there are other factors i'm missing.

so either the temp in the pipe is room temp (which is impossible as well) or there is another factor that we are not accounting for.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 2:55:45 PM   
Anthoop



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I think the factor we are missing is the speed of sound in air value!Surely the emissions from the engine can't be deemed as air thus affecting the value of wave speed.

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RE: selecting the right tuned pipe. - 7/1/2007 3:07:59 PM   
ttoks