Airplane rudder gyro  
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Airplane rudder gyro - 7/1/2007 4:55:45 AM   
jjmretired


 

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From: Montrose, CO, USA
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I have an uncontrolable WW1 triplane. Due to the scale landing gear which is well in front of the ballance point, I can't control takeoffs. I would like to install a gyro on the rudder for ground handleing.

Will the GY401 work for this application? Also, can I use a non digitial servo with the GY401. I have a 9202 installed.

After the airplane takes off, I have no further use for the gyro. Can I some how shut it off after take off?

I called Futaba tech support and they said "get a GY611". I don't want to spend $370 if the GY401 will work.

I have never used a gyro and have six other WW1 tail draggers that I have no problems with on take offs. Any help is appriciated.

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 7/1/2007 5:48:25 AM   
bobferguson



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From: Mission, BC, CANADA
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I have a plane called a NewBee which I had trouble on takeoffs. I installed a GWS PG-03. Very cheap. It works great my plane go straight do the field now. I can't shut the gyro off but I thinks help the plane fly. I don't do any fancy flying so the gryo never gets in my way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjmretired

I have an uncontrolable WW1 triplane. Due to the scale landing gear which is well in front of the ballance point, I can't control takeoffs. I would like to install a gyro on the rudder for ground handleing.

Will the GY401 work for this application? Also, can I use a non digitial servo with the GY401. I have a 9202 installed.

After the airplane takes off, I have no further use for the gyro. Can I some how shut it off after take off?

I called Futaba tech support and they said "get a GY611". I don't want to spend $370 if the GY401 will work.

I have never used a gyro and have six other WW1 tail draggers that I have no problems with on take offs. Any help is appriciated.





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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 7/2/2007 10:16:11 PM   
Bax


 

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Futaba doesn't really have an airplane gyro that's currently available. You can use the GY401, but you'd want to have it in heading-hold mode for takeoff, and then flip the switch to have it in regular mode with low gain. That could possibly help your takeoffs and then be as close to being turned off when you flip the switch to take it out of heading-hold mode.

This may work out, but we can't be sure. Heli needs are different from airplane needs.

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/17/2007 5:08:30 PM   
hlhamner


 

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I am using the GY401 on a Hangar 9 Twist with the medium-torque Futaba digital S3050 servo on the rudder and it works great. Also, I am using a 7CAP airplane transmitter.

My settings: Switch E mapped to Channel 7
Sub trim and Dual rates on the rudder channel 4 are 0% and 100% respectively.
Set the End point adjustment on Channel 7 on the left to be 75% and 1% on the right.
Set the travel limit using the gyro pot and not the end point or dual rate setting. In other words, if the rudder needs to move another 10 degrees at full transmitter deflection, turn the little travel limit gyro pot to get what you want.

The heading hold mode is Switch E on and always turn on the transmitter with HH mode on. Don't move the airplane for 3-4 seconds to let the gyro initialize. If you can see the gyro the solid red LED is on when in HH mode. Then, turn off HH mode by switching switch E. Carry the plane to the flight line and, when it's lined up with the runway heading you want, switch back to HH mode and wait 3-4 seconds while the gyro initializes. Then move the rudder stick back and forth a couple of times and then center it. Don't forget this last step or the rudder may have an offset.

After takeoff (or if you get into trouble) turn switch E off and you are back to regular rudder control.

What I use the gyro for is on rudder for 3d Hovering and torque rolls. I take off in with switch E off and turn it on in flight when I'm ready for some 3D. Then I move the rudder back and forth a couple of times before going vertical and center the aircraft. This enables me to concentrate on engine, ailerons and elevator without having to worry too much about the rudder. When it falls out or I end the manuever I effectively turn off the gyro by switching switch E to off. By effectively I mean turning the rate gyro part off because I only have 1% gain set in the end point adjustment for channel 7.

How I learned to do this was I built a small rudder and horizontal stab on a piece of 1/4" plywood and experimented. Before you fly make sure that Switch E turns off the gyro and turn the plane to ensure rudder only moves when commanded by the transmitter and centers when you are hands off. When the switch is on make sure the rudder turns in the direction of the turn (or more accurately a left turn generates a right turn rudder position). Also, with switch E on, the rudder will not go back to neutral until the plane returns to the start position or you move the rudder back to neutral with the transmitter.

Works great and you don't need the S9254 expensive servo on an airplane. In fact you can use a non-digital servo but remember to switch DS (digital servo) off on the Gyro or, according to the manual, you will ruin your non-digital servo.

Good Luck!
hankhamner@verizon.net

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/18/2007 9:41:09 PM   
Big_Bird



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Wow Hank! This is an extremely timely post. A good friend (Gremlin Castle on RCU) bought a GY401 this week for use on his big DC-3. I ordered one for use on my 1/3 scale Bucker Jungmeister. As you probably know there is very little information out there on airplanes in comparison to helicopters.

I probably have at least 60 flights on my Jungie but I've always toyed with the idea of installing a rudder gyro in it because like jjmretired's plane the gear is really forward and any amount of cross wind (common here in Texas) wants to make it weather vane pretty strongly. Of course adding the right amount of rudder is the key. I often get too much or too little. I don't have this problem with the other gassers that I fly. I am using a single Hitec HS-635HB in pull-pull on the rudder.

You said: "Then, turn off HH mode by switching switch E. Carry the plane to the flight line and, when it's lined up with the runway heading you want, switch back to HH mode and wait 3-4 seconds while the gyro initializes. Then move the rudder stick back and forth a couple of times and then center it. Don't forget this last step or the rudder may have an offset."

It is not really practical for me to carry a 27# plane out to the runway with the engine running and place it in position for takeoff. It would seem to me that once you initialized the gyro in AVCS mode you could taxi out, using the rudder stick, and line up with the direction that you expected the AVCS to hold without waiting the 3-4 seconds and moving the rudder stick back and forth. Am I wrong in understanding that the AVCS constantly updates the desired direction as the rudder comes back to neutral?

You said: "After takeoff (or if you get into trouble) turn switch E off and you are back to regular rudder control.

What I use the gyro for is on rudder for 3d Hovering and torque rolls. I take off in with switch E off and turn it on in flight when I'm ready for some 3D. Then I move the rudder back and forth a couple of times before going vertical and center the aircraft."
Do you take off with the AVCS on or off? These two statements seem to conflict. Are you saying that the gyro has to be initialized before you pull up into a hover? Does the gyro have to go through an initialization process every time you move the switch from normal to AVCS? I thought that I understood that the initialization only took place one time during a flight when the receiver was turned on after the transmitter had been turned on with the switch in the AVCS mode. Right/wrong?

At this point my only intention in using the AVCS is for takeoff.

Thanks a lot for your help Hank, I'm in the learning mode at this time.




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< Message edited by Big_Bird -- 8/18/2007 9:47:18 PM >


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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/19/2007 5:22:50 AM   
Edgar Perez



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I use that gyro for the nose steering in turbine jets with great results. Never used it in heading hold

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/19/2007 3:11:40 PM   
Big_Bird



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Thanks Edgar. What transmitter do you use and what is the sensitivity set for on the normal (rate) mode?

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/20/2007 10:26:21 PM   
hlhamner


 

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Hi Big Bird!

Sorry for the confusion and I probably made this too complicated.

The most important thing is to turn on the transmitter with the switch on the heading hold setting (LED fully lit on the top of the gyro). Then, after three or four seconds you can taxi it out in either mode but, if it were me, I'd taxi with the HH mode off. Otherwise you will get some jerky movements. When you are ready for take off put in heading hold mode, move the rudder left and right and then center it. If you don't move the rudder back and forth before centering the gain seems to be lower than normal so I recommend moving the rudder quickly back and forth before moving it to center. When taking off in HH mode you can use the rudder to correct for small alignment issues but it's better on a squirly plane to let the gyro handle as much of the takeoff as possible. Taking off on a wide grass strip would be the safest until you know how your plane/gyro combination works.

I take off with the AVCS (HH mode) off. I turn it on in flight and let the gyro initialize 3 seconds. Experiment with this as it may not be necessary but I know it works with the 3 second delay. Next time I fly I'll see what effect not initializing has, if any.

Let me know how it works for you. To get more confident in the gyro, you may want to set up the gyro in an inexpensive plane and experiment. It works a lot better than my JR G500A rate gyro for 3D. As you know the rate gyro will not hold a heading. If you move it for 1 second and 30 degrees the rate gyro will move the opposite direction for 1 second and a 30 degree offset. In 100% calm wind this works okay but not for the winds in Texas. The HH gyro will keep the rudder 30% offset until it moves back to center.

Final word. The GY401 does not like JR digital servos and, if using non-digital servos, don't forget to switch the DS (Digital Servo) toggle on the Gyro off. I'm not sure how to set up a JR Digital servo - I don't think I'd risk it without finding out for sure or you may ruin a nice servo.

Good luck!


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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/20/2007 10:57:46 PM   
Big_Bird



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hlhamner, thanks a lot.

I will be using a Hitec HS-635HB analog servo. Seems like this gyro will do just what I want. I do have a cheap junker that I can fly it in before I put it in the Jungie. However, I built a super cheap simulator that I can put it through it's paces on. Here is a photo.


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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/20/2007 11:14:25 PM   
hlhamner


 

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Nice simulator. Looks like the one I built except mine had a ply bottom and balsa stab and rudder.

Let me know how it works out for you. It seems very few people are using gyros outside of the Heli crowd.

Hank

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/20/2007 11:27:08 PM   
Big_Bird



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Thanks Hank,

I have several other gassers that handle fine in a cross wind but the Jungie is a special case. I hope to have the gyro in it and checked out before I go back down to Bomber Field in September. I'll let you know how it works out.

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RE: Airplane rudder gyro - 8/21/2007 3:36:05 AM   
jjmretired


 

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JR makes a gyro for airplanes with very good instructions. It can be used with Futaba and Airtronics. G500A. www.jrradios.com/ProdInfo/Files/JRG500Agyro.pdf I don't understand why Futaba does'nt at least give some instructions on airplane set up for their gyros. Attatched is my hard to taxi Nieuport Triplane. Jay

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