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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/22/2007 5:38 PM   
    RU4JESUS2 FALCONGTS


     

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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: BubbleGum


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: RU4JESUS2 FALCONGTS

    thank you TAM POPO and BUBBLEGUM was out saturday had the combat wing and the f27c the combat wing I crashed more than I flew the f27c in 10 to 15 mph wind what a blast with a tail wind fast !!! would take it up high and try to float !!! wanted to ask the best pilots here thanks everyone falcongt


    Are you talking about slope flying, Falcon?


    ~Bub



    SORRY ABOUT THAT THIS HERE WAS AT THE FIELD BOTH HAVE MOTORS .. THE SLOPE IS NOT OPEN WILL BE VERY SOON

    WILL GET A BEAR FUSE F27 AND MOD THAT FOR THE SLOPE .

    ALREADY TOLD I AM A TARGET BY AT LEAST 8 OF THEM IF I COME WITH THE F 27 I SHOULD HAVE THE EDGE THEY ALL HAVE THE ZAGI TYPE THE WING I HAVE IS THE SLINGER

    THE PICTURE OF THE TWIN MOTORS ON A STRIKER WAS ON WWW.RCGROUPS.COM WHERE I SEEN IT

    THANKS FALCONGT



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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/22/2007 11:25 PM   
    dskwiz


     

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    Status: offline     		Is there an area here that talks about crashes perhaps caused by the AR6100 in the stryker f27C & what is the best install positions for the AR6200 in the F27C

    Thanks, Bill

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/23/2007 3:27 AM   
    Stryker_Viking



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    Status: offline     		gditeam

    Very cool looking plane that blade II
    Do you know anything about it, can't find anything on that name?
    Thanks
    Stryker_Viking

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/23/2007 3:53 AM   
    Stryker_Viking



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dskwiz

    Is there an area here that talks about crashes perhaps caused by the AR6100 in the stryker f27C & what is the best install positions for the AR6200 in the F27C

    Thanks, Bill


    Here you go Bill, not exactly what you asked for but maybe useful:

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_116/tt.htm = JR & Spectrum Radios
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_96/tt.htm = Crash & Rebuild
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_154/tt.htm = Questions & Answers

    Stryker_Viking



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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/23/2007 6:50 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		dskwiz,

    See page 11 of this thread for installation location of my AR7000, I would install the AR6200 the same way. My AR7000 came with the DX7, but next receiver purchase will be the AR6200.

    Some RCUniverse friends and my brother run the AR6200 without any issues. My best friends and I have had no issues with AR7000 in the same areas where we/they had problems with AR6000 and 72MHz receivers....not a single hiccup so far. Rock solid and steady.

    I believe the dual receiver makes a big difference. remember the antennas of the second receiver needs to be 90 degrees to the other receiver. I run the second receiver on side of battery, dug into foam sidewall, (flush install with 3M packing tape covering it and the antennas) see pics.

    I don't know what's best, but I can tell you what works for me when I fly all around power lines and such.

    I highly suggest you spend that extra $10-$20 to get AR6200 vs. AR6100.


    Good luck,
    Gryphon

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/23/2007 7:02 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		Stryker_Viking,

    My turn to send you a link, here you go buddy:


    http://www.icare-rc.com/blade_2.htm


    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3771485/tm.htm



    Wish me luck for tomorrow.
    Gryphon

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/24/2007 5:05 AM   
    Buggygovroom



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: gditeam


    Thought: what happens when you scoop out the foam and just have a Stryker "shell" with strengthening in the needed places. Hmmmm.....

    a plastic shell like a fiberglass body.... wonder how well that would hold up OR if you could just have it empty. That would look crazy too. Imagine a clear stryker



    You could probably do something like that. A two piece shell, but I would think that there would still be the need for Ply or Carbon formers. It would leave a lot more room for your gear. Id like to try a mold but with provisions for a mini 480 fan.

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/24/2007 6:28 AM   
    LT-40



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    Status: offline     		Wow Its been a while since I have posted. I am happy to say that my new stryker is ready to fly!!! This time I did wooden elevons and was able to make them thanks to gryphon and others. They are so much stronger and tomorrow they will be put to the test. Sorry for not keeping you guys posted on my progress my digital camera has been broken. I guess I still should have tried to type it out for you but I have been very busy with school and other things.

    Here are some pics

    LT-40

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/24/2007 7:55 PM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		WARNING:


    NEW RECOMMENDATION for all high speed Strykers:

    Run a second C.F. strip from side to side (with plane standing on nose: a horizontal piece). Do this or your main load bearing Strip or tube will fail. There had been one or two report of a high Stryker (modified airframe) falling apart in air; and now new evidence from another plane supports it.

    We have had good/positive feedback regarding longevity of our fast setup's components such as motors, ESC, battery, and servos. But we have not had reports of how long these Carbon Fiber Tubes can last or how many times they can flex without breaking near middle area.

    Speeds used to be lower in the past such as 80 MPH or up to 100 MPH with less weight on board. Now that we are pushing past 110-120 MPH and have lot more weight, name of the game has changed for the longevity of the C.F.
    With a simple 1/2 to 1 hour modification/addition of a short C.F. we can save our planes before an expensive disaster.

    For those of you who don't know: Starting with the wing tips (no stress point), the bending stresses become greater and greater the closer we get to the middle of the wing. Middle of the wing or close to it is where the tubes can/will fail.

    If you want to keep the weight addition of a second tube or strip to a minimum, then at least run a 12"-15" piece instead of the usual 24"-36" or longer C.F.
    I will add a full 24" C.F. Strip (rectangular cross section).

    Depending on where your current STRAIGHT or CURVED C.F. is located, install this second C.F. piece a little in front or behind it (between rear of servos to end of motor mount area). Farther apart may be best, but still keep it between the servo and the end motor mount area. You can leave this piece straight or for those with curved pieces, you can feel free to do the same with this one. It makes little difference where it is installed as long as it extends from left side to right side and is at least 1/3 of wing span.

    Worried about painted fuses? Think about a pile of mess in front of you after it breaks apart in mid air and parts start to rain down and you will soon change your tune. Go ahead, cut through everything, install this C.F. and A) paint over it, or B) cover it with 3M tape and paint over it, or C) cover/fill it some other way and paint over it, or D) just leave unpainted.

    Functionality over looks people!!!

    Who is at risk: ALL OF US WITH FAST 100+MPH STRYKERS.

    At higher speeds, it takes fewer number of flexes before failure.

    Since most of us are nose heavy, this will add slight weight to rear (behind servos to end of motor mount area)....Bonus.

    So how about C.F. strip with length of hack saw blade with roughly 0.5grams /inch weight? That will be 1/3 to 1/2 O.Z. weight increase depending on length of C.F. or type of glue used.

    I thought you should all be aware of this quick, cheap, and light weight NEEDED mod to save your Expensive Strykers.


    Your friend,
    Gryphon

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/24/2007 8:26 PM   
    gditeam


     

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    Status: offline     		I run a carbon rod on the top of the stryker and it runs through the "electronic area" of the canopy and forms a cross or a "t" like you would with a box kite and it gives little to no flex. I have not tested carbon tape or strips yet and would like to try that out as well. A carbon strip with some glass reinforced tape over it would hold very well.

    I am going to check the weight difference between the strips and the tubes and see what might work best for the next stryker body I do. Thank you for the heads up there gryph. I would hate to have my plane and the electronics come apart in the air due to being a bit weak or "overweighted.

    Any suggestions for a clean video camera that can follow these planes easy enough with decent quality? I am wanting to see what people use to video tape nascar..... I think to show off our "darksidedness" (nice....) we need to videos as well. I have an onboard camera I can put there but that does not show the SPEED in the same light...

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/24/2007 8:28 PM   
    Stryker_Viking



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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Buggygovroom


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: gditeam


    Thought: what happens when you scoop out the foam and just have a Stryker "shell" with strengthening in the needed places. Hmmmm.....

    a plastic shell like a fiberglass body.... wonder how well that would hold up OR if you could just have it empty. That would look crazy too. Imagine a clear stryker



    You could probably do something like that. A two piece shell, but I would think that there would still be the need for Ply or Carbon formers. It would leave a lot more room for your gear. Id like to try a mold but with provisions for a mini 480 fan.


    There is an old technique for this, something I practiced a couple of times back in the 70's when building strong hollow wings for pattern planes based on a foam core, and it's very simple. The idea of building a Stryker like this have crossed my mind, I think I told Gryphon about it while working on my build #3, here are the basic steps:

    1/ Start with your foam core, prepare grooves for your CF reinforcement.
    2/ Install CF-strips/tubes, make sure they are all connected to one another with CF/Kevlar thread and Epoxy.
    3/ Check so all CF is at the surface of the foam. This is necessary as they must be bonded onto the skin.
    4/ Cover your foam core with selected CF/Kevlar/Fiberglass cloth and Epoxy/Polyester.
    5/ Pay extra attention to the areas where the CF reinforcement is located to ensure a good bond.
    6/ Once your creation is completed, drill a hole through your hardened skin at a selected spot.
    7/ Pour a small amount of Acetone or Ether into the hole and the foam will be completely dissolved.

    Voila, you have now a hollow creation without foam core.
    I hope this brief explanation makes sense, if not - let me know so I can explain further.

    Stryker_Viking

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 12:03 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		A carbon ROD is circular in cross section, but solid inside. Given its weight, it provides the least help as far as flex up and flex down. Given its outside diameter it provides the most tensile strength, but that's only good if we have an attached rod, pointing down and we are hanging few hundred pounds off of one end…. So Carbon rod is the least helpful C.F. shape (PER WEIGHT) when it comes to a Stryker.

    A carbon tube is circular in cross section like a carbon ROD, but is hollow in the middle. What this does is to give more resistance to bending “PER WEIGHT” compared to rod. So to take advantage of this shape, we need to get a larger diameter tube (compared to rod)and we will end up with same weight or less compared to rod but with more strength in the right place to fight off flex.


    A carbon strip has a rectangular cross section (obviously solid). To take max advantage of its shape, it needs to be oriented with the wide side of the rectangle standing vertical, so install it standing on its thin edge. If you install it the other way, it’ll provide you with reduced flex support.
    I use the largest tubes and Strips available from Midwest products. Largest 24” long tube #5724 0.21”O.D.X0.132” I.D. is 0.52 grams per inch and 2nd heaviest strip (thickest) 5744 .092”X.220” is 0.486 grams per inch.
    The tube is available in 40” length #5822, but I don’t believe the strip is available in 40” length.

    http://www.midwestproducts.com/catalog_sa1.asp?srch_grp_id=8&sa1_id=17&sa2_id=21 each number can be clicked.

    http://www.midwestproducts.com/pdf/2007_Products_Catalog.pdf See page 33 of PDF file for retail prices and some info.

    http://www.midwestproducts.com/pdf/MerchandisersCatalog.pdf is for dealer order but page 7 provides more info.

    I cannot find the weight per length info on there anymore, but wrote info from my spare C.F.


    In flight wings try to flap up and down so C.F. needs to be installed from side to side.

    C.F. installation from front to rear of fuse(down center) will have not provide any help with for the above wing flex, it will only provide some help in the event of a nose in crash.

    On page 7, 6th picture you can see two C.F. tubes installed behind nose. The tube tips were sharpened with 45 degree angle then pushed against the foam and were twisted in slowly. After the tubes were pushed in 9”, the extra part of the tube used for pushing and twisting in were cutoff flush with surface where the nose attaches to. This provides a lot of strength for the nose in mishaps.

    Other than the (2) 9” tubes mentioned above, I will only use CF. strips for my future builds because they seem to be easier to install and will need less glue to fill in the huge trenches needed to be cut for round tubes. I will cut the small trenches using the 4-5 side by side stacked hack saw blades from the link by Maxamus. My brother loved that method and he had never installed C.F. before.


    A good link for available wood by Midwest.
    http://www.midwestproducts.com/catalog_sa2.asp?srch_grp_id=8&sa1_id=15&sa2_id=25


    5/16”X5/16” bass wood T.E. used: (2) #4077
    http://www.midwestproducts.com/catalog_sa1.asp?srch_grp_id=8&sa1_id=15&sa2_id=26


    Aileron stock used (2) #6842 5/16” X 1 ¼”. See page 5 of this PDF file.
    http://www.midwestproducts.com/pdf/2007_Products_Catalog.pdf

    The 1/32” aircraft plywood used to reinforce my balsa Elevons (thank you Stryker_Viking)
    http://www.midwestproducts.com/catalog_sa1.asp?srch_grp_id=8&sa1_id=15&sa2_id=27

    My future 100+ MPH Strykers may be built similar to following sketch drawn using the paint program.
    Hint: not drawn to scale….LOL…


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    < Message edited by Gryphon -- 9/25/2007 12:27 AM >

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 12:33 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		I edited the post above. I used the word Tube instead of ROD a few times. Also I used rod instead of tube a few times.

    I'll go ahead and read again to catch any other slight errors. But it should be good now.

    I will run (2) CF. side to side but I may attach one of them to the wooden T.E. a little different than above sketch that shows angled C.F. near T.E.

    I will most likely use some short C.F. strips between the two horizontal Strips to connect them.

    I was not able to find 40" strip by Midwest (at quick glance) so the far rear strip in sketch may end up being a tube #5822.

    Other companies do make C.F. products; look at Tower Hobbies to see what they carry for possible reduced prices.


    Gryphon

    < Message edited by Gryphon -- 9/25/2007 12:39 AM >

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 12:56 AM   
    gditeam


     

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    Status: offline     		I will look into this ALOT more gryphon. I think I will get a few stryker fuses and do some strength testing on them. HOPEFULLY my watt meter will be here this week and I can toss out some of the figures for my different setups.... woohoo.

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 4:43 AM   
    jhalbur


     

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    Status: offline     		Is Dymo Electrics still the best and lowest cost place to get Mega motors?

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 4:47 AM   
    gditeam


     

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    Status: offline     		just got my super whatt meter in the mail today woohoo. Now its time to play and see what type of power I can make....

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 5:07 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		jhalbur,

    Dynamo is not always the best place, it is a good place.

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    gditeam,

    Did you get the Astro flight meter?


    Gryphon

    < Message edited by Gryphon -- 9/25/2007 5:11 AM >

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 6:07 AM   
    Mach62


     

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    Status: offline     		Been a while since I been on here. Glad to see you are all going fast.

    I took the plunge and bought the 16/25/2 Mega tonight. I want to get a range of props to test for 35 to 55 amps on both 3S and 4S. Can one of you guys that runs that motor on 3S and 4S give me an ballpark idea of what I should be starting with in terms of props?

    Thanks.

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 6:12 AM   
    Bonefisher


     

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    Status: offline     		Mach62...

    If you want / need to keep the amps that low (35-45) and you have not gotten the motor yet... you may want to look at a 16/25/3...

    The 16/25/3 will most likely produce better performance at lower AMPS, while the 16/25/2 will produce better at higher amps....

    Sure the elders will give some advice as well... but all I have seen points to this...

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 6:47 AM   
    gditeam


     

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    Status: offline     		as bonefisher said BUT you can do a ton with the motor you have coming just really not meant for 4s BUT hey...... Get the right prop size and esc and you will be set. If you are going to be playing with the 2 turn mega make sure and get a capable esc (80amp cc ) so you can fully enjoy the motor. You can also play with some edf options as well with that motor too....

    Can't wait to watch your mega 2 turn mob through the air Mach62.....

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 7:19 AM   
    Mach62


     

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    Status: offline     		Thanks for the responses guys.

    I have two other Megas. Love them both. I have the 16/15/4 which I ran on 4S with a 6x4 apc(e) for 575 watts and I have the 16/25/3 which I ran also on 4S with a 6x5.5 apc(e) for 521 watts. I am using a Jeti 70 amp OPTO with a Parcbec. I did try the 16/25/3 on the 6x5.5 on 5S for 853 watts. It pushed my little Funjet to 127 mph. Well, that was the first and last time since I smoked the battery and crushed the foam during a crash.

    But know I want a nice screamer to ring the heck out of on 3S and 4S and I know some of you guys have this motor and swear by it. I am looking to prop it at about 500 watts on 3S and 700 watts on 4S.

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    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 7:38 AM   
    Gryphon


     

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    Status: offline     		Mach62,

    Nice to see you back old friend. If the motor is for a Stryker and you want to run 4S with amps in the 35-55A range, you may have bought the wrong motor, well I should say you didn't get the best motor. It'll be efficient, but you might be giving up too much climbing without gaining a whole lot for speed.

    So I doubt the FUN factor will be there on 4S with so few amps in a Stryker due to small prop.

    On 4S to keep the amps that low, you'll be using an APC E 5X5 55A(???) as a max prop. May be as low as APC E 4.7X4.25 in the 45A range???

    I documented those a couple hours or so after the test and I was not that positive because I was only concerned to find a prop small enough to aid in my break-in of a new battery for its third discharge.
    ____________
    3S-5000 25C Graupner CAM 5.5X5.5 will be 46-49A, but as you know it does depend on the battery’s capability to hold voltage under load.
    Aeronaut 6X5 with TP 3S-4200 15C 53A.
    _____________
    I cannot guarantee the numbers above, but should give you an idea.

    If motor is for an airframe (other than Stryker) with much less drag, then you might fare better.

    ***Companies don't want you to receiver electronics and then send them back, but you might want to try this if you don’t want the motor. Call the company you bought from, tell them of your desire to get a different motor and that you are not going to accept the package so they will know it has not been opened. Tell them that you will cover any and all shipping charges. That might satisfy them.
    If they are a good company and didn’t special order just for you, they should not charge you any restocking fee or give you a hard time. Leave note to shipping company for them to return package to sender.


    *** For the record 16/25/2 and 4S are a great combination, no make that a fantastic combination, but you need a good deal more amps for bigger prop.

    You can also swing a little bigger prop by putting ESC on low timing for reduced amps and lower RPM.

    Feel free to send me a PM or e-mail.

    Good to see you again,
    Gryphon

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    (in reply to gditeam)
           Post #: 1097

    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/25/2007 7:44 AM   
    Gryphon


     

    Posts: 2692
    Score: 120
    Joined: 7/11/2003
    Last Login: 5/13/2013
    From: Charlotte, NC, USA
    Status: offline     		Mach62,

    The only reason you didn't go over 100 MPH with your 16/25/3 1700KV motor on 4S (in a Stryker) was because you kept the amps and prop size less than you could have run.

    For all out effort on 4S, try something like the TP 4S-3300 25C and it should last many many cycles on 16/25/3 flowing high amps 60+A. That should get you a good deal more than just 100 MPH with jaw dropping climbing on 7" prop using 4S on as few as 50A.

    Gryphon

    < Message edited by Gryphon -- 9/25/2007 7:50 AM >

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    (in reply to Gryphon)
           Post #: 1098

    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/26/2007 3:21 AM   
    Mach62


     

    Posts: 236
    Score: 100
    Joined: 10/13/2006
    Last Login: 10/31/2011
    From: Ottawa, ON, CANADA
    Status: offline     		Okay thanks. I am going to try the 16/25/2 just the same on both 3 and 4 cells. I will first try the 5x5 apce and then the 5.5x4.5 apce to see what I draw on both 3 and 4s. My main reason for wanting the hotter wind is more noise. I like to wake 'em up early.

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    (in reply to Gryphon)
           Post #: 1099

    RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper ... - 9/26/2007 4:03 AM   
    Gryphon


     

    Posts: 2692
    Score: 120
    Joined: 7/11/2003
    Last Login: 5/13/2013
    From: Charlotte, NC, USA
    Status: offline     		Mach62,

    Then you'll be happy to know that on 5S, 33,000-38,000 RPM WILL hurt your ear a little. The same goes for everyone standing near you.


    Gryphon

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    (in reply to Mach62)
           Post #: 1100

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