RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the Limits Part 6 -Go deeper in to the Dark Side...
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RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/23/2008 11:48:09 PM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

People:

Since the 1/32" Aircraft plywood makes the balsa elevons so strong, why not do the same to stock elevons?

Can't we just epoxy that to bottom side of stock elevons? Maybe make it one size thicker than 1/32”?

I think it is worth trying.

It will add a little weight to back side and shift the C.G. from current location to rear a bit. Could be offset by pushing battery forward a slight amount. Some guys with too far forward C.G. will actually be happy.

What do you think?

Stryker_Viking, that mod to balsa elevons was your original brain child (over a year ago). What do you think of doing it to stock elevons?

I like to have one of you guys try it and report back.
I assume you will get better control in flight. Also the real fast guys who are getting a little roll at max speed, might notice less or none.

I have my fingers crossed.

Tell me what you think or what you find.

How come we never talked about that before......

Gryphon

< Message edited by Gryphon -- 3/24/2008 2:22:16 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 12:39:37 AM

Posts: 144
Joined: 9/29/2006
From: Wulguru, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

Incidently the new oversized elevons I made have the Stryker_Viking ply mod and even thought they are nearly double the length and taper to a fairly sharp point they are VERY stiff. Good work mate. I will have another Stryker in the air soon. I think I will order a few more fuse's as I have something else I want to try around make the wing semi symetrical without actually cutting anything off the top. The batteries were pushed hard into the front of the cavity and the hollow cavity was in front of them which was crushed and seemed to absorb the impact well. There are no physical signs of damage to the packs. These zare older 2200 packs any which I would throw out had I any doubt.

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 12:46:31 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

This page shows a Stryker with landing gear.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5024519/anchors_5468457/mpage_61/key_Feral/anchor/tm.htm#5468457

(in reply to Brazman)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 1:12:58 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

ESC Heat sink addition:

The following is a fantastic job done by by somegeek who ran the previous "PART 5" thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4759078/anchors_5201086/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5201086

The stock heat sink that comes with the Aero-Nuts BLC30 is pretty light weight - both in cooling and weight so I figured I'd replace it with some better sinks. I used a straight edged razor to cut the shrink around the edge of the plate and then removed it. It's the thin piece of aluminum held on by some gummy thermal adhesive. I was surprised after I removed it to find that the middle row of chips was not making contact with this plate! Only had impressions from the outer rows of chips in the adhesive.
______________

I had some copper heat sinks left over from my PC over-clocking days so I cleaned the heat sink surface with some Windex and then used some arctic silver thermal epoxy to mount these on the chips...

_______________

They covered the 12 chips almost to a perfect fit!

The bottom side that was not heat sinked has four FETs on it - thinking of throwing a few heat sinks on these as well... at the same time, folks run these ESCs without modifying them so I imagine these bottom FETs don't get too hot. If they do, I'll sink them too.

________________

Added copper heat sinks to both sides of the ESC yesterday for good measure...

somegeek

_________________________

Many thanks to somegeek for his great work.

________________________________________________________
A large heat sink by Hyperion to fit their 80A ESC.

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=2837

Gryphon

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< Message edited by Gryphon -- 3/24/2008 1:25:59 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 2:15:40 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

iamman711

WELCOME to the DARK side.

You have great vision. I’m impressed.

Everything that you want can be fitted to the Stryker. Without passing any limits because there are none.

Take a fuse (old/broken one at first if you have one). Lay the parts that you want in their general area.

Place Retracts, servos in their general area. Make sure your parts are not thicker than that area of wing.

Place ESC and receiver in wing as needed. See my receiver on top of wing at the bottom of page 75(mine is a belly-lander).
BubbleGum has landing gear and he has his receiver under the wing near the front (to avoid interference in his high powered setup). But either way we freed up real estate under the hatch. Ask him for links to his page or search this thread using his name.

With ESC and receiver out of the way, and maybe retract servos close to retracts, the situation of fittings things don’t look so bad huh.

Make sure to extend the 3 ESC to motor wires instead of the 2 ESC to battery wires if/when needed.

If you want a full size cam to be removable, consider mounting it on the center of gravity, so when you put it in and out it will not throw your C.G. off. You can install a full size cam and you are that much better off with FlyCamOne V2. I suggest you contact AeroRecon since he might have given this more thought already.

Since your cam is not so heavy:
If it is to stay in place, then C.G. close to stock points.
If it needs to be removed, then C.G. on stock location without it if it is mounted in front.
If it needs to be removed and it gets installed in rear, then setup so with cam installed it is on stock C.G. location and nose heavy with it removed.
Goal is to never be tail heavy.

Lay C.F. tubes, and strips to strengthen the areas that you weakened. 3M Extreme tape can help.

Then carve away foam for parts and also for C.F. Add wood/fiberglass/hot glue or whatever as needed to bolt your retracts to. Use servo tape under servos (double sided tape). I have not installed retracts so ask others and do research if you have not done it before.

Don’t not sound so impossible anymore…huh?

When there is a will, there is a way.

I’ve only seen retracts once a couple of years ago and don’t know where to refer you to.

If it is not a 100+ MPH Stryker then shoot for stock C.G. points.

Initially tape everything in their general location, then nudge various parts around a little to help you. Up to 1” forward C.G. is o.k.

In your case, weight is no longer an issue because you will roll till you get enough air speed,

If you want us to find you a little more power, list your main components, and other parts that you have which may be useful.
_________________

Do a hand sketch of where your parts might go and post it.

Gryphon.

< Message edited by Gryphon -- 3/25/2008 7:24:21 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 5:51:17 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

iamman711,

Look at these two pics, this is how I lay parts in their general area before cutting foam. Two different builds.

I check for C.G. and move things around a little.

Tape things in place so when you hold the plane by the handle cutouts the parts don't slide around.

C.F., wires, main gear, fins, elevons, prop, servos, etc.... everything,.... screws too.

You can attach small plywood sections to C.F. and attach your retracts to plywood to make the install strong...whatever you need.

Do the above check more than once as you build.

Think.

Also if you waste an extra new fuse for $20 as far as carving goes (without the C.F. step) it'll be worth the finished product. This is why I keep old or crashed fuses to experiment on.

Have fun,

Gryphon

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< Message edited by Gryphon -- 3/24/2008 5:53:10 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 7:23:24 AM

Posts: 166
Joined: 5/30/2007
From: Norwalk, CA, USA
Status: offline

Thanks Gryphon for your insight and words of encouragement. I checked out all those pix by yourself, Bubblegum and AeroRecon and its cool to see the creative dark side

I like your idea on page 75 to mount the ESC on the top, but it looks like you have a nice case for your ESC too. What did you use for that? Mine doesn't have a case right now.

Also, what is the best way to carve into the foam. Hobby knife and a file?

You use a lot of CF. Do I have to wear gloves I heard its hazardous. MSDS: http://www.2spi.com/catalog/msds/msds11431.html (not sure if link will work). Would it be a good idea to run a CF tube straight down the middle all the way from the nose to the motor to reinforce the nose? Also, what size tube do you use? 0.125 X 40" tubes available at my LHS, and next size down is a lot smaller, just wondering what you use.

Also, do you try to counterbalance your Rx by adding weight to the plane's left side? pretty negligible maybe?

If i place the Rx near the nose and theres no Carbon Fiber there, what can i do to protect the Rx in case I nose dive my Stryker into the ground. I think I'll keep it in the wing like you then.

I plan on making my retracts about 4 or 5" high from bottom of wheel to where it meets the fuselage. This high profile might turn out nice or ugly (we'll see) but it will help protect the propellor I figure, and it will retract anyway.

My current power config is all stock. I have the F-27C RTF in the Tiger Meet paint. Here are the specs:

Specs
Wing Span: 37in (940mm)
Overall Length: 27in (690mm)
Flying Weight: 22oz (620g)
Motor Size: 6-pole brushless direct-drive, 1880Kv
Radio: 2.4 Ghz (upgrade)
Retracts: GWS micro retracts
Retract servos: not yet decided
Servos: Industry standard 3 wire
Trim Scheme Colors: Grey, Black, Yellow
CG (center of gravity): Approx 6 1/2" forward from trailing edge
Prop Size: 6 x 4
Speed Control : E-flite 25amp brushless ESC

local hobby shop recommended power upgrade around $200 gets me Typhoon 3W brushless (cheaper) or a Mega 16/15/3 (more expensive, but same performance as Typhoon he told me) which are both around 3000 Kv,and a Phoenix 45 amp ESC.

Do you guys run 4 cell lipos? Does it really make a huge difference in this case? I hope so.

Thanks for reading. Take your time in replying I know its a handful

< Message edited by iamman711 -- 3/24/2008 7:32:32 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 8:57:45 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

iamman711,

Page 75 shows excessive C.F.
I referred you there just so you can see what is possible. That plane is just an experiment.

No need to worry about wearing gloves...When you re grinding it try to avoid inhaling it.
I have never heard of anyone having skin issues. Wear gloves if it bothers you.
If there are issues, I have never heard about it and your link did show anything serious ...not that I saw.

Since it is 2.4 GHz radio, place receiver anywhere you want, there should not be any interference issues...Try to avoid caging it in too much C.F. that's all.

Don't buy anything from local hobby store yet...it will be too soon.

Your motor can still put out more power. The stock ESC and battery are the bottle necks.
Stock ESC cannot handle more than 3S.

Forget some of those details right now.

Tell me how fast you want to fly.
What is the max speed planned in future.
Charger capability in #of cells lipoly.

I’m sending you a couple of PMs.

Gryphon

(in reply to iamman711)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past th... - 3/24/2008 10:43:12 AM

Posts: 166
Joined: 5/30/2007
From: Norwalk, CA, USA
Status: offline

I just realized the Super-Stryker model i fly in my FMS simulator goes about 145 mph. Its pretty fast for me, but I could go faster.

of course, not too sure how accurate FMS is in general.

I don't have a charger right now except for the one that came with my plane. I was leaning towards eiither TP610C or a charger that supports the new LiMn and LiFe batteries, but on second thought the TP610C probably won't do the job if I need higher than 6 cells to go 150-160 mph or more, right?

< Message edited by iamman711 -- 3/24/2008 10:52:43 AM >

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past th... - 3/24/2008 11:29:56 AM

Posts: 2041
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline

iamman711,

Consider 125-130 MPH as max speed for Stryker.

Stock F-27C does not fly at 80 MPH. Box says capable of flying at up to 80 MPH. That speed is most likely in a dive and tail wind.

People radar the F-27C at 65 MPH.
_______________________________________

Your field's top speed of 105 MPH can easily be shattered.

So it looks like you are talking about a Super Stryker build.

you'll need 1200-1300W for 120 to 125+ MPH.

Gryphon

< Message edited by Gryphon -- 3/24/2008 11:44:05 AM >

(in reply to iamman711)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past the... - 3/24/2008 1:51:01 PM

Posts: 288
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Novato, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gryphon

People:

Since the 1/32" Aircraft plywood makes the balsa elevons so strong, why not do the same to stock elevons?

Can't we just epoxy that to bottom side of stock elevons? Maybe make it one size thicker than 1/32”?

I think it is worth trying.

It will add a little weight to back side and shift the C.G. from current location to rear a bit. Could be offset by pushing battery forward a slight amount. Some guys with too far forward C.G. will actually be happy.

What do you think?

Stryker_Viking, that mod to balsa elevons was your original brain child (over a year ago). What do you think of doing it to stock elevons?

I like to have one of you guys try it and report back.
I assume you will get better control in flight. Also the real fast guys who are getting a little roll at max speed, might notice less or none.

I have my fingers crossed.

Tell me what you think or what you find.

How come we never talked about that before......

Gryphon

Happy Easter buddy Gryphon and all other crazy Speed Freaks out there,

Sure, to laminate plywood on the stock elevons will make them much stiffer, same goes for CF laminate that our King P is typically using. The backside of doing this though is that you will not get a chance to improve the crappy aerodynamics as you most certainly will when you use Balsa elevons instead of stock elevons.
This will of course have as effect that the stock, modified or not, will be causing drag and be slower… same goes for using wide elevons vs. a narrow elevons by the way…

The principle sounds pretty natural to me:
* Don’t drag around more then you need.
* What you must drag around – Make it as efficient as possible and minimize the drag…

Remember how we discovered that the torque roll tendency could be almost eliminated with a absolutely stiff wing and ditto control surfaces as my CF skinned build…?
Taped hinges with guaranteed no leak between TE and control surface…

While on the subject of aerodynamics guys:
Any lift generating wing profile as the thick one on the Stryker for example, will generate more and more lift (as well as drag) the faster it’s moving through the air, right…?

That’s the main reason for my obsession in modifying the wing and making it thinner… the other one is of course to lesser the drag…

I am glad to see that I am not the only one that is recycling; it’s a great and cheap ESC insurance…

Got to stop here, got to find the binoculars and go back out early to try to find my lost twin motor wing that clocked 119 mph btw yesterday…

Happy flying

Stryker_Viking

PS. Forgot one of the pictures of CF/Alu modification of motor mount in progress, here it is...

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_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- - - Altitude is still my best friend...

(in reply to Gryphon)

RE: F27 STRYKER -Way Past th... - 3/24/2008 1:55:01 PM

Posts: 288
Joined: 2/18/2007
From: Novato, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gryphon

iamman711,

Consider 125-130 MPH as max speed for Stryker.

Stock F-27C does not fly at 80 MPH. Box says capable of flying at up to 80 MPH. That speed is most likely in a dive and tail wind.

People radar the F-27C at 65 MPH.
_______________________________________

Your field's top speed of 105 MPH can easily be shattered.

So it looks like you are talking about a Super Stryker build.

you'll need 1200-1300W for 120 to 125+ MPH.

Gryphon

A reflection:
Forg