TOP GUN results... blah...

TOP GUN results... blah...
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TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 12:29:48 AM

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From: Chapel Hill, TN, USA
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Why is it that in Top Gun the prop planes seem to judge weaker than the jets? I saw some stunning prop planes and very nice flights from them. Then, I find out that a Mig 15 ARF that looks so plain and undetailed wins? Does anybody else have any thoughts on the last few top guns and the way they scored?

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RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 1:51:19 AM

TLH101

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Because when the jets are hauling ass by the judges, they can't see flaws in the flight.

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"Old Fart" in training. (not to be an R/Cer, but to be an "Old Fart")

(in reply to Dart373)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 4:08:53 AM

u2fast

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From: houston, TX, USA
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i was there competing, what arf won. if you are referring to the mig. it was flown by the designer, dave ribbe. he sold the rights to produce the kit to bvm. and it is no arf. maybe you have bought one that is and would like to share pics of it here to prove it was an arf. was there any prop guys flying models of there own design and being kitted by another mfg there. quite a feat and ashamed to call this an arf. i flew a jet this year and will fly a prop next year, but the mig was accurately detailed with pics to back it up. jets inherently fly better than props. they grove better, take off more scale, and land more scale. bottom line is i find they fly easier in competition than a prop. most props are tail draggers and it is harder to get that scale perfect roll out on landing or take off. maybe more of a handicap would even things up. certainly worth a discussion. but not calling the winner an arf is. barry

(in reply to TLH101)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 4:35:33 AM

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From: Litchfield Park, AZ, USA
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We would love to see some of your detailed and not plain work.

Here is Mr. Ribbe and the aforementioned Mig.

< Message edited by Chad Veich -- 7/5/2007 4:36:05 AM >

(in reply to u2fast)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 1:24:09 PM

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dart373

Why is it that in Top Gun the prop planes seem to judge weaker than the jets? I saw some stunning prop planes and very nice flights from them. Then, I find out that a Mig 15 ARF that looks so plain and undetailed wins? Does anybody else have any thoughts on the last few top guns and the way they scored?

Dart,

I thought long and hard before deciding to answer your questions. First, I am the Outline Judge for Team Scale at TOP GUN. The way that the judging works is that the builder supplies the Judging Staff with the three views, and any photographic evidence that supports the aircraft that the builder chooses to model. The model is placed on the judging table, and the Scale Outline Judge will request that the model be oriented as he so chooses. The comparison is made between the three view and photos, and the actual model, and any discrepancies are noted on the Judging sheet. The model is then re-oriented as per the wishes of the Judge, and is again evaluated. The model is then oriented to the last position and again evaluated. While this is going on, the color Judge is doing his job, and the Judge for craftmanship is doing his job.

The Judges for Team Scale have more experience than you would believe, and we strive to be fair to a fault. A model of a warbird may have a plain paint scheme, or may be decorated like a circus act. The builder chooses what he wishes to replicate, and is judged on that criteria. The model may not have been one that you would have chosen, but you are not the one whose work is being judged.

As to the flight portion, the jets have better penetration than do the propeller driven models (with some exceptions) and appear to follow the scale flight envelope better than say a World War One Biplane would. Again, the flyer must announce his manuvers, and he is judged on the accomplishment of the execution of that objective.

There is no real advantage per-se for a jet, in fact the jets are handicapped prior to entry, in order to level the playing field. I urge you and everyone else to come to TOP GUN next year and have a look for yourselves. You are welcome to chat with the judges (before and after the judging)( we do not have time to chat during the judging portion) and I think that you might come away with a different opinion of what actually goes on at Top Gun.

Thanks for asking.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to Dart373)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 2:48:46 PM

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From: Chapel Hill, TN, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chad Veich

We would love to see some of your detailed and not plain work.

Here is Mr. Ribbe and the aforementioned Mig.

Ok, that was an honest mistake. I thought it was perhaps a BVM and I wont swear to it, but thought I read it in a magazine. I don't know, thanks for clearing that up. I don't compete in these TG's and I won't. I really enjoy the event and look forward to each year. Great people, fantastic models and so forth. From my view point, it looks as if there needs to be 2 classes for the award. I know there are multiple classes now, but in this thread was posted this by a Judge " As to the flight portion, the jets have better penetration than do the propeller driven models (with some exceptions) and appear to follow the scale flight envelope better than say a World War One Biplane would." Granted he did say they start with a handicap, I don't see any point deductions prior to the event. Everybody starts with a 0 right? Thanks for clearing up several subjects for me. Thanks.

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Where there is confusion, there is profit.
AMA # 403098

(in reply to Chad Veich)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/5/2007 4:35:57 PM

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From: leesburg, FL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dart373
but in this thread was posted this by a Judge " As to the flight portion, the jets have better penetration than do the propeller driven models (with some exceptions) and appear to follow the scale flight envelope better than say a World War One Biplane would." Granted he did say they start with a handicap, I don't see any point deductions prior to the event. Everybody starts with a 0 right? Thanks for clearing up several subjects for me. Thanks.

Dart,

I hope that you read everything that I said, and not just parts of it. You can download the rulebook for 2007 TOP GUN and you will see exactly what all the rules and the judging criteria is for each category. I said that I am an Outline Scale Judge and I am NOT (repeat NOT) a flight judge. The points are deducted prior to the beginning of the event, and everyone who enters this event is aware of these deductions and additions. As I said previously, you should attend, and walk around. The entrants are regular guys (for the most part) as are the Judging crews. You might just enjoy yourself.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

ps...Do you fly out of Cane Ridge, or Edwin Warner, or Neely's Bend?????

< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 7/5/2007 4:37:26 PM >

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to Dart373)

RE: TOP GUN results... blah... - 7/6/2007 2:28:43 PM

jman12

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Joined: 5/13/2005
From: Valrico, FL, USA
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I have been to Top Gun for the past 10 years. I have seen different types of aircraft win in all categories at Top Gun. It all depends on who (builder, flyer) is hot at the time. Pretty much like NASCAR. I consider static judging to be fairly straight forward the model either follows the documentation or it doesn't. The real test of the model is when it is in the air and the perception of the judges. Is the plane flying per it's full scale counterpart? Is the plane flying scale speed? Jet do have an advantage in the respect because it's very difficult to judge high speed flight. Those poor WWI bubbas have to fly slow and spend way too much time in front of those judges. I would give those guys the handicap points! All in all I think the judges do an outstanding job of judging superb aircraft.
R/John

(in reply to Stickbuilder)

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