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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Tachometer Readings >> Propeller Thrust Calculator
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Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 5:10:05 AM   
fireflier


 

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Joined: 4/30/2003
From: East Moline, IL, USA
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You are very close on your guess on the stall...a stall occurs when air separates from the top surface of the wing. This separation happens at the trailing edge first, and then works its way up to the leading edge. Why does the separation take place? As you know, changing the vector of a fluid takes a tremendous amount of energy. The higher the AOA is, the greater the vector change has to be for the air to have a laminar flow. As the air moves towards the trailing edge, it is constantly expending energy. The CAOA is the maximum vector change the air can make using its potential energy, and of course depends on the shape of the airfoil. At the CAOA, the air has just enough energy to conform to the top surface of the wing all the way to the trailing edge. If you exceed the CAOA slightly, the air uses too much energy changing vectors, and does not have enough energy at the trailing edge of the wing. This would be the birth of a stall, and the CL starts to decrease. If you increase the AOA further, of course the air uses more energy making the vector change, and runs out of energy sooner, thus making the air separate from the wing sooner. Induced drag at this point is tremendous, and the aircraft will not fly. The CL reduces very rapidly when you go beyond the CAOA, and the point where it gets to zero depends on the shape of the airfoil. As an example, though, a symmetrical airfoil that stalls at 18 deg AOA, reaches a CL of zero around 26 deg. The answer to your question about the 45 deg AOA is no, there is no lift generated. There is lift, however, at 25 deg, well above the CAOA.

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       Post #: 26

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 7:33:42 AM   
roadhor



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Joined: 12/22/2001
From: Gentry, AR, USA
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Wow !! Guys , my head hurts. Now I'm really confused . Aerosplat ; my MVVS gasser turns a Cyclonic " carbon fiber " prop right at 7000 rpm . Can you tell me what kind of thrust that generates ? My plane weighs 13lbs & it will not hover , but it's very close. Thanks for the help guys , & the headache, he he. Later

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       Post #: 27

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 11:15:24 AM   
crzy4mot



Posts: 51
Joined: 4/17/2003
From: concord, CA, USA
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well guys you somed it up for me im amazed on the things ive learnd from this thanks agian

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       Post #: 28

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 11:17:08 AM   
crzy4mot



Posts: 51
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From: concord, CA, USA
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hey roador what the size and pitch of the blade your turning at 7000 ?

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       Post #: 29

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 4:37:03 PM   
roadhor



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From: Gentry, AR, USA
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OH Heck !!! I forgot to post it , that would make a big difference wouldn't it. It's an 18X8 . Thanks, Rob

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       Post #: 30

Cyclonic prop ??? - 5/1/2003 7:57:24 PM   
Aerosplat



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Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Lawrenceville, GA, USA
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I don't have any experience with that brand. The thrust readings I have reported on RCU are actual measurements I have taken on my test setup. I don't rely on calculations. Sorry, I can't help you on that one. But if you can't hover, then it is probably just under the total weight of your plane. Remember to add fuel weight.

_____________________________

---- Robert ----
"If you put a big enough engine on it, even a brick will fly. But it will never 3-D"

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       Post #: 31

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 8:20:55 PM   
seanychen



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Joined: 7/20/2002
From: Canton, MI, USA
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Is this the MVVS 1.60 gasser? I read a review of someone putting it on the H9 Chapman Cap, and it was swinging APC 17x8 @ like 7200. It didn't give him unlimited vertical. I guess you should try the APC 18x6W to see if it swings above 8000 rpm and see if ht will hover your plane.

_____________________________

E_Total = M*G*H + 1/2 M*V^2
When H=0, all of airplane's velocity becomes crash energy!

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       Post #: 32

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 9:32:57 PM   
roadhor



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From: Gentry, AR, USA
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Thanks guys ; The Cyclonic is a generic Mezjlik " if thats spelled right" . The guy at the hobby shop sells them & said the man that makes them designed the Mezjlik but no longer works for them , so he started making his own props, they look just like a Mezjlik but much cheaper . The motor is still breaking in , have less than a half gallon through it so far. Thanks a bunch guys, Later, Rob

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       Post #: 33

Where can I get cyclonic props? - 5/1/2003 9:54:31 PM   
seanychen



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From: Canton, MI, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by roadhor
Thanks guys ; The Cyclonic is a generic Mezjlik " if thats spelled right" . The guy at the hobby shop sells them & said the man that makes them designed the Mezjlik but no longer works for them , so he started making his own props, they look just like a Mezjlik but much cheaper . The motor is still breaking in , have less than a half gallon through it so far. Thanks a bunch guys, Later, Rob [/QUOTE]

Me wants a cheap 18x6 hollow CF prop

_____________________________

E_Total = M*G*H + 1/2 M*V^2
When H=0, all of airplane's velocity becomes crash energy!

(in reply to Super Hot)
       Post #: 34

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 10:10:32 PM   
roadhor



Posts: 164
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: Gentry, AR, USA
Status: offline
seanychen : I think Garry has one in stock , or at least he did last time I was over there. His # is 479-442-7929 . He works through the week & isn't open till 4:00pm central standard time, but he's open 8:00 till 8:00 on weekends. I think the 18X8 was $30. Hope this helps you, later. Rob
P.S. If you need a new Saito he has the best prices you can find on them.

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       Post #: 35

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/1/2003 10:36:16 PM   
fireflier


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/30/2003
From: East Moline, IL, USA
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seanychen, check your private messages...

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- "I just ran out of air and ideas, all at the same time!

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       Post #: 36

thrust calculators - 5/2/2003 12:23:53 AM   
jharkin



Posts: 270
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Newton, MA, USA
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What do you guys think of the Aerodesign Prop calculator?

[URL=http://www.gylesaero.com/_frames/f_propcalc.shtml]Gyles AeroDesign Propeller Calculator[/URL]

It does seem to take pitch into account and also adjusts for airspeed. I've used it and its results seem a bit more realistic compared to what I see at the field.

Note: If you install it, look in the install dir and see the "extendedpropselector.exe" file. This one gives more detail including efficiency, tip mach number, thrust coefficient, power absorbed etc.

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       Post #: 37

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/2/2003 9:28:26 AM   
seanychen



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From: Canton, MI, USA
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Thank you so much for the link. I played around with the file, and in attemp to calculate "static thrust", I simply reduce the airspeed to 0.01.

I got very encouraging results, which match reality pretty well. The only thing is that we can't change the chord width to take account of wide prop vs narrow.

It seems like the max static thrust an engine can produce using the best prop is roughly:

5 x HP rating for 2 strokes
6 x HP rating for 4 strokes

What do you all think?

_____________________________

E_Total = M*G*H + 1/2 M*V^2
When H=0, all of airplane's velocity becomes crash energy!

(in reply to Super Hot)
       Post #: 38

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/2/2003 6:13:15 PM   
fireflier


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/30/2003
From: East Moline, IL, USA
Status: offline
Just remember to put your field elevation under altitude, don't leave it at zero....

_____________________________

- "I just ran out of air and ideas, all at the same time!

(in reply to Super Hot)
       Post #: 39

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/4/2003 10:26:57 AM   
crzy4mot



Posts: 51
Joined: 4/17/2003
From: concord, CA, USA
Status: offline
thrust hp says only 15.43 lbs of thrust with 18/8 at 7000

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       Post #: 40

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/20/2003 6:37:41 AM   
oki



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Joined: 5/20/2003
From: Tolvsrod, NORWAY
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by seanychen
[.
.
.

It seems like the max static thrust an engine can produce using the best prop is roughly:

5 x HP rating for 2 strokes
6 x HP rating for 4 strokes

What do you all think? [/QUOTE]

In principle it should be the same for 2-strake and 4-stroke as HP rating is the power the engine delivers under optimum (should that be optimistic?) conditions, while the thrust you get is the actual power delivered when moving air...

In practice you may be right as 2-strokes normally delivers their rated HorsePower at a much higher RPM

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       Post #: 41

Propeller Thrust Calculator - 5/22/2003 9:12:27 AM   
Herby 1


 

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Joined: 4/26/2003
From: Northern Arizona
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ThrustHp shows 25+ for a Mejzlik 18-6@9000..Actual spring scale test is 17.5....

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