First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3?

First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3?
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First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 1:58:54 AM

Posts: 335
Joined: 7/9/2007
From: Austin, TX, USA
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Been doing some reading, visited my LHS. They recommended the Firebird Freedom. After reading the forums I'm not so sure. It looks like the Aerobird would be better for a first timer. Most of what I read recommends the Aerobird Challenger. This has been discontinued, but is still available. For the same price I see the Aerobird 3 available.
Which would be preferred? Seems like the Aerobird 3 has rods for control and other nice features, but is it still nice to fly?

I was wondering if you guys could give me information. Does it have as good flight characteristics? Easy to learn on, repair, and get parts for?

If I order this plane or pick it up from my LHS, what other parts would you recommend getting with it? Extra battery? Prop? Wing?

What preparations do you recommend to extend the life of this model? What type of tape/plastic/glue to place and where?

What have you folks found with the charging and battery life with this "all in one box" system? Is it finicky, or is it pretty much in line with most electric planes?

I want to start with something cheap and easy like this to learn on and see if I like the hobby.... crash and bang it up a few times if needed. Then I'll move up to something a little more high end.... or... if this plane is fun enough.. just stick with this one.. who knows.

Please let me know. I'd like to pull the trigger on a new plane here in the next couple of days and get started on this new hobby. I just want to have some opinions and advice before I proceed.

Thank you for your time.

< Message edited by SackOHammers -- 7/9/2007 2:34:16 AM >

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 6:23:07 AM

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From: Round Rock, TX, USA
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For first time why don't you take a look at the HobbyZone Super Cub?

Much better option for a trainer than the Aerobird, IMO.

BobbyG

(in reply to SackOHammers)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 6:48:47 AM

Posts: 335
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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Thanks for the reply Bobby.

Is it as crash resistant? The prop is up front. I guess that is good and bad for a first timer. I might break a few more props learning, but it'll be better for me once I get a more advanced plane?
The other thing is that the Super Cub just looks... well... plain. While the Aerobird doesn't look real, it has more style. Also, what about landings in grass? Like if I take the cub over to Murchison Middle School or Zilker. (I'm in Austin, I noticed you're just up the road). Am I going to be more prone to damage the tail on landings?

How small does the plane break down? I'll be transporting this on my motorcycle when I want to go flying. Having something where the wings are easily removed and put on would be helpful, but not a requirement.

I think there is a local club here:
http://www.austinrc.org/
But I have not looked into it.

I guess there isn't a huge cost difference. It comes with a free spare battery while the Aerobird comes with $10 off a spare battery. That will help offset the cost difference.
Replacement costs for the super cub tend to be a bit higher. One dollar here, couple dollars there, not a huge difference.

Unrelated, what do you think about some type of power supply? I noticed that with both the Super Cub or the Aerobird, the wall charger does not charge to 100%. Since I'm a biker I don't have easy access to a ciggy lighter. I'll have to charge my batteries in the house before I go flying. Can you recommend one that keeps cost in mind, but also long term flexibility (to allow growth if I choose to expand in the hobby later down the road)?

< Message edited by SackOHammers -- 7/9/2007 6:50:55 AM >

(in reply to BobbyGee)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 6:02:00 PM

Posts: 485
Joined: 3/15/2007
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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quote:

SackOHammers

I want to start with something cheap and easy like this to learn on and see if I like the hobby.... crash and bang it up a few times if needed. Then I'll move up to something a little more high end.... or... if this plane is fun enough.. just stick with this one.. who knows.

How small does the plane break down? I'll be transporting this on my motorcycle when I want to go flying. Having something where the wings are easily removed and put on would be helpful, but not a requirement.

The Wing Dragon has the traditional rudder and elevator; whereas Aerobird has a mixed V-tail ruddevator. Also the main wing of the Wing Dragon comes in two pieces for easier transporting on your motorcycle. The Wing Dragon only costs $89.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon.htm
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/beginners-rc.htm

The problem with most every newbie is getting the bug and buying a plane that looks 'cool & neat' but may not be the best beginner plane to learn the fundamentals with the least amount of frustration. The challenge facing every newbie is taking as much time as needed to do your due diligent homework and not buy on impulse as soon as possible.

Possibly the most common--frustrating experience of electric newbies is soon discovering that their cool looking plane with its underpowered brushed motor is too frustrating to fly when winds are more then 8 to 10 mph. Then they can spend more time making repairs then actual flying time. But that is something most all newbies have to live with to some degree until brushed motors are no longer available in RTFs having been completely replaced by brushless motors.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 7/9/2007 6:07:40 PM >

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to SackOHammers)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 7:09:04 PM

Posts: 338
Joined: 1/28/2004
From: Round Rock, TX, USA
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SackO,

Wow - lots of questions! Let's see:

Maybe the Aerobird is a good choice for you.

My first plane was an Aerobird Challenger. I busted it up a bunch! First flight I broke the wing. Second flight I busted another one. I was wondering if I could afford 15 bucks per flight!

That was a few years ago and there weren't many choices. I looked at similar planes available on the web and decided that it would be wise to go for something where the spares were in stock at a local hobby shop. It paid off - and I had access to a lot of advice from both the store personnel and from hobbyists in to shop, too.

Looking back, I wonder if I would have had an easier time with the Cub, had it been available. The flying would have been a lot easier, I'm sure, but I do wonder about things like a nose-over on landing busting a prop or a gearbox. That can add up, too.

The pusher has that advantage - it protects the prop and motor some, although I have had a wing crunch a prop when it popped off in a crash and hit the prop.

You'll need to make your choices based upon what will work for you. The Aerobird will be easier to tote on a motorcycle.

Here's what I learned from the Aerobird:

I learned how to fix stuff. I took my first broken wing - it was snapped about 4 inches right of center and had a couple of good gouges in it. I got myself some packing tape - the wide stuff, 1.9 inches or so. I got some 30 minute epoxy. I figured that if I glued the pieces together and taped using long strips - wingtip to wingtip stretched tight to provide strength, that it might work. One gouge I repaired by simply using a folded over index card taped over the gouge. That wing still flies. My second wing got the same treatment. A couple of spares are still in their packaging.

Biggest lesson I learned from the Aerobird was they're right - you need a BIG field to learn on. I think Murchison will be enough for you. Zilker Park certainly so. I also learned that the beginner mode stinks. It gives you just enough control to fly, but not enough to really correct when you get in trouble. Get into Pro mode as soon as you can.

As to how small the plane breaks down, I'd suggest that you look at keeping the box and transposrting it in that. Actually, since mine was mail ordered, I kept the corrugated box it came in because it's sturdy. The box lets me keep things together without risk of breaking it moving it around. You'll need to figure how to strap the box to your bike. Should work.

About chargers and stuff: I bought the wall charger for about 10 bucks. I didn't know that it doesn't charge 100% - are you sure about that? Anyway, don't get hung up on that. Pretty soon you'll know how hard the bug has bit you and you'll be into other stuff soon. If you stay with electric you'll be looking at brushless motors and LiPoly batteries, so don't spend a lot on the specialized stuff for the Aerobird. Just get flying and fix/repair what you break.

For reference there are several good threads on the Aerobird. The 3 is a newer version, but a lot of stuff will still apply. Here's alink to one such:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_825665/anchors_825665/mpage_1/key_aerobird%252Cchallenger/anchor/tm.htm#825665

As to a club, ARCA has outstanding facilities and a great fellowship among the members. They're very active. For a parkflyer it's overkill. Find yourself a place that's big, open and not adverse to a guy flying a little plane around responsibly. You should be fine.

If you want to do electrics and want the club experience, check out Austin Silent Flyers. They're in Pflugerville near the Travis Country regional park.

http://www.austinsilentflyers.org/

Hope this helps!

BobbyG

(in reply to Swift427)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 8:11:10 PM

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From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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quote:

BobbyGee

Looking back, I wonder if I would have had an easier time with the Cub, had it been available.
The Aerobird will be easier to tote on a motorcycle. As to how small the plane breaks down, I'd suggest that you look at keeping the box and transposrting it in that. Actually, since mine was mail ordered, I kept the corrugated box it came in because it's sturdy. The box lets me keep things together without risk of breaking it moving it around. You'll need to figure how to strap the box to your bike. Should work.

Is it safe or even legal to tote a corrugated box as large as the Aerobird 3 on a motorcycle. Maybe have to put a red flag on the rear of the box.

Do your homework before buying your first plane on impulse. The following is an excellent example of what I mean by doing your homework.
http://thesmithfam.org/blog/2007/03/03/super-cub-aileron-upgrade-part-3/

If you don't especially care about tinkering with modifications on your own first plane and want to get in the air ASAP the Wing Dragon is about as good as it gets. I doubt very much that you can find a better deal for your needs then an inexpensive RTF like the Wing Dragon for only $89. Should you decide to order the Wing Dragon I would suggest you also order all of the spare parts listed at the bottom of the link. These parts come to $63.40 for a total of about $160 including shipping. When you consider that it costs over $300 to buy everything needed for Hobby-Lobby's basic skin and bones Cobweb II ARF slow flyer then $160 for everything brand new is as close to a bargain as you'll ever find for a perfectly good Wing Dragon including a spare tail set, spare wing set, spare prop, and spare battery.

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to BobbyGee)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/9/2007 8:41:44 PM

Posts: 485
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From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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quote:

SackOHammers
The other thing is that the Super Cub just looks... well... plain. While the Aerobird doesn't look real, it has more style.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head when it comes to the biggest mistake I made as a newbie. I thought the same about the HZ Super Cub so I bought the coolest, neatest, most colorful looking plane that would fly inverted and do some basic aerobatics. Buying the Aerobird Swift was a BIG mistake as was buying a Challenger and the new Stryker F27C brushless as my first three planes. In hindsite I now finally admit my error in judgement. I could have saved myself a lot of money and frustration if I would have bought the Super Cub as my first plane; flown it enough to learn the basics of beginner 3-channel experience; then converted it to a 25 amp ESC and brushless inrunner motor; then gained more 3-channel experience; then modified it for 4-channel aileron control. It would have been a plane that I and others would have enjoyed flying for the rest of my flying years.

Instead I now have three cool looking planes that I don't especially enjoy flying anymore with all the repairs I've had to do from too many crashes. The bottomline is that looks are only skin deep and can be deceiving when it comes to the best plane for a newbie that will give you the most realistic flight for your money with the fewest number of crashes and the most number of enjoyable flights for as long as you have an interest in electric airplanes.

< Message edited by Swift427 -- 7/9/2007 8:44:35 PM >

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to SackOHammers)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/10/2007 4:08:35 AM

Posts: 270
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From: Carol Stream, IL, USA
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Sack, there are a lot of choices out there and I would have to agree with most of the earlier posts. I'm an experienced modeler and while on a vacation I picked up an AB3 with a spare battery. Out in Utah, I put in 15 successful flights and just had a blast with mine. Since coming home, I've put another 6 flights and even had some thermal activity and got a 25 min. flight. I think it's a great little RTF, but I do have previous experience. I remember the Hobby Town associate reminding me to read all the instructions and view the included CD, which I did in our hotel room before going out. My first flight attempts were in low wind condtions (5 mph or less). The little red ribbon they give to be tied to the transmitter is a helpful aid. I think the hardest thing I had to deal with was the initial launch and transition to controlled flight. Tricky when doing it by yourself. I like the AB3, but I'm experienced. If you could get any help from another RC flier, I think you would do fine. It is small though, and I ocasionally get disoriented but have learned how to deal with that. Especially when I get it up as high as I can get it. Good luck on your decision, I probably haven't helped at all.

Good flights to you,

Tom

(in reply to Swift427)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/10/2007 6:13:38 PM

Leo L

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Sack,

Its interesting that you view the SuperCub as looking plain, and prefer the looks of the Aerobird. Most people see it the other way around: they prefer the SperCub because it looks a lot more loke a real plane.

Anyway, in a side by side comparison of the Aerobird 3, Wing Dragon and SuperCub, the SuperCub blows the others away for being the best plane for a beginner. Its easier to fly, has better performance, requires less room and can handle wind better. Although the SuperCub is a front motor design, its extremely resistant to damage. A couple of spare props are the only spare parts you should concern yourself with. Unfortunately, the SuperCub is the more time consuming in assembly and disassembly, but if you can figure out a good way to carry it on your bike, its definitely the best way to go. I don't own one, but I have helped several beginners learn with it, and watched other beginners learn on their own, and you just can't get a better beginner plane. Backyard Flyer Magazine called it "The Perfect Beginner Plane".

Since transporting the plane is probably a significant concern, consider the following: Start with an Airhogs AeroAce (NO SUBSTITUTIONS) that you can buy at Toys-R-US, Target, Walmary, etc. for $30. Its a very small plane (less than 12"

that can be flown just about anywhere, is easy to learn, is lots of fun to fly and is virtually indestructable. When you have gotten good at flying the AeroAce, get the Firebird Phantom http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ4700. Its similar to the Aerobird 3, but is significantly smaller, which will make it a lot easier for you to transport.

A good charger is the Vision Peak Ultra http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=DYN4053

(in reply to Tom Nied)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/10/2007 9:06:33 PM

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From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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quote:

Leo L
Since transporting the plane is probably a significant concern, consider the following: Start with an Airhogs AeroAce (NO SUBSTITUTIONS) that you can buy at Toys-R-US, Target, Walmary, etc. for $30. Its a very small plane (less than 12" that can be flown just about anywhere, is easy to learn, is lots of fun to fly and is virtually indestructable. When you have gotten good at flying the AeroAce, get the Firebird Phantom http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HBZ4700. Its similar to the Aerobird 3, but is significantly smaller, which will make it a lot easier for you to transport.

Truer words were never spoken. The main objective is to have the most fun for the least amount of money with your first exposure to model aeronautics. An inexpensive slow flying 2-channel two motor push prop can provide enjoyable learning experiences as an introduction to model aeronautics. You will experience fewer crashes and a lot less time and money making repairs. Then you can decide just how interested you are in expending some real money (and it will tax your budget) for a real model airplane.

Toting the Aerobird 3 carton is questionable and that Lengthy/Boxy Super-Cub carton, even on a large Harley, would present a problem.

_____________________________

Never Give Up, Never Slow Down, Never Grow Old, and Never Ever Die Young

(in reply to Leo L)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/10/2007 11:18:19 PM

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From: Austin, TX, USA
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Lots of replies. Thanks for all the input. It is really appreciated.

Swift:
My concern over the Wing Dragon is that I'm not sure I can get parts at Hobby Town. There is a Hobby Town just a few miles up the highway (MoPac). Not only do I like to support small shops, but it will be nice to pick up parts on the way home from work.
As for the comments on picking a plane based on looks. Well, if I were going that route I would have picked a WWII fighter, not the Aerobird 3.
I was considering the Aerobird because there are tons of threads and comments out there by folks that made it an excellent first plane. (Not the Aerobird Swift).
You're also correct about toting around a big box on my bike. I've got a large bike (cruiser), but when I showed up to Hobby Town a few weeks ago to take my first look at these planes... I knew I couldn't even buy one and take it home on my bike. The box is just too large. My plan was to dismantle, encase the body and boom in cardboard and let it sit on the side along the seat and on top of my saddlebags. I could do this with the wing as well. Any smaller bits would fit in the saddle bags. I'm not sure I would be able to do that with the Super Cub... you indicated that the box was much larger.

BobbyG:
Thank you again for the great advice and comments... and for suggesting the Super Cub... if anything you've got me stewing over which way to go. It sounds like portability will be the chief issue with the Super Cub. The Aerobird will probably involve a lot more damage/repairs. If I choose the Aerobird I would probably start by taping the wings and doing the zip-tie tail boom mod right out of the box. That would help bring repairs down a bit... from what you and others have said.
This page here:
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/hobbyzone_supercub/hobbyzone_supercub_parts/
indicates that the wall charger does not fully charge the batteries on these Hobbyzone models.
Also thanks for the information on the culture of the local clubs, all good information to have.

Tom:
Thanks for the tips on getting started. I have read an online guide or two that reinforces what you said about being patient with setup and trimming. I may even try out an computer flight sim designed for model airplanes (other than the joystick type I've been playing for 10+ years). And also to speak to what Leo was saying... I had been considering getting one of those fun little airhogs to help teach coordination... especially when the plane is flying at you. I was wondering if the controllers on those were the same/similar as these 3 channel electric planes.

Leo:
You give very compelling arguments for trying out that Super Cub... you along with BobbyG. It really does sound the way to go. Maybe I'll head over to Hobby Town and see if they have one out of box that I can take a close look at and consider transport options.
Those airhogs do look like a lot of fun... even if it doesn't help me learn to fly a larger plane any better... it looks like a fun little toy to have around.... whip it out when friends come over for a BBQ, etc.

Thanks again everyone. It looks like my decision will be mostly based on transportability. From the sounds of it, either will be a good choice. If I can figure out how to get around with the SuperCub, and dismantling isn't a huge pain I will probably go that way. If its too much trouble, then I'm pretty sure I can transport the Aerobird. I just might have a stiffer learning curve and a little more repair work with that route.

Hammers

(in reply to Swift427)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/10/2007 11:53:53 PM

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From: Round Rock, TX, USA
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quote:

This page here:
http://secure.hobbyzone.com/catalog/HZ/hobbyzone_supercub/hobbyzone_supercub_parts/
indicates that the wall charger does not fully charge the batteries on these Hobbyzone models.
Also thanks for the information on the culture of the local clubs, all good information to have.

Aha - I see.

So, here's the workaround for that little sucker:

http://www.gpscity.com/accigadapter

Get yourself one of these and use the 12v charger that comes with the plane. And it's less than the wall charger to boot!

All you need now is to figure out how to carry a plane on your bike and you're all set.

Can you set a box upright in your saddle bags? That might be a possibility.

Good luck, let us know what you decide to do.

Best,

BobbyG

< Message edited by BobbyGee -- 7/10/2007 11:54:23 PM >

(in reply to SackOHammers)

RE: First Time Trainer - Aerobird 3? - 7/11/2007 12:56:37 AM

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Is your park or field large enough. Believe it or not--even 300' on all sides can feel restrictive for a beginner learning to fly an Aerobird 3 or Super-Cub. Please take a look at the following YouTube AeroAce