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RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 8/5/2007 12:39:30 PM   
Flying Geezer



Posts: 1049
Joined: 4/12/2003
From: Bowling Green, KY, USA
Status: offline 		This is sounding better all the time. I googled up some packs from a hobby shop and 2 cell packs with were $59 with a connector.

I've been looking at their website again. They are claiming charge cycles up to 10 times that of lipos. I may have to play with these.

Do you use their charger?

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Hughes RC

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       Post #: 101

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 8/13/2007 9:18:38 AM   
aeajr



Posts: 5525
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I hear there is a new DX6 coming out. Any news on that?

As far as I know, in North America, there are only the three players in the aircraft market. Has anyone heard anything about anyone new entereing the market?


Also, came across this interesting survey of the three technologies. Based on the stats as I saw them, the overwhelming majority seem to be working well. Of course these are not carefully audited surverys but they provide "some" indication of customer satisfaction.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6149523/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

< Message edited by aeajr -- 8/13/2007 2:47:23 PM >

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Ed Anderson
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(in reply to Flying Geezer)
       Post #: 102

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 8/28/2007 5:47:32 PM   
Beavis



Posts: 58
Joined: 10/29/2002
From: Wellesley, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I would be interested in hearing from Ed, and/or anyone else, as to whether it is reasonable to speculated that the RC radio market will undergo changes similar to those taking place with telephones. I.e., is it likely that 2.4GHz systems will be "upgraded" to 5.8GHz, 6.0GHz, or even higher frequency systems? Is there any parallel/logic to that? Is there a foreseeable or desirable frequency limit?

Thank you in advance.

(in reply to aeajr)
       Post #: 103

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/6/2007 1:49:31 PM   
aeajr



Posts: 5525
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flyingfever

Wow!

I was all wound up and ready to go spend some money on a new radio system.

Now I guess I'll keep my wallet in my pocket. At least for the near term.

On the up side, at least it is never boring!

Fever


I am always interested in people's decision process. What did you learn from this discussion that causes you to wait?

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       Post #: 104

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/6/2007 3:21:37 PM   
BillS


 

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From: Greensboro, NC, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aeajr

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyingfever

Wow!

I was all wound up and ready to go spend some money on a new radio system.



I am always interested in people's decision process. What did you learn from this discussion that causes you to wait?

Wait and why:

1. Hard failures on low voltage and long reacquisition time on a critical system. Critical system hard failure is bad design. There is insufficient data to know if Futaba will have the same issues. I consider the issue a compound design flaw.

2. Both major players build low channel count systems. Seems strange since adding channel count to proven technology should be trivial.

3. A company with long term experience in the spread spectrum business in apparently having difficulty getting product to market. Begs the question "Why?"

4. The above indicates that many design changes are in the future.


Bill

(in reply to aeajr)
       Post #: 105

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/6/2007 5:30:37 PM   
Bax


 

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From: Champaign, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BillS

Wait and why:

1. Hard failures on low voltage and long reacquisition time on a critical system. Critical system hard failure is bad design. There is insufficient data to know if Futaba will have the same issues. I consider the issue a compound design flaw.

Futaba's reacquisition time is less than one second

2. Both major players build low channel count systems. Seems strange since adding channel count to proven technology should be trivial.

Low-channel-count systems are where the largest sales are found. That's why they got introduced first. Modules for the high-end 12- and 14-channel systems are coming.

3. A company with long term experience in the spread spectrum business in apparently having difficulty getting product to market. Begs the question "Why?"

Not difficulty getting product to market. Sure, later than others, but it's all in the pipeline.

4. The above indicates that many design changes are in the future.

This is true for any technology.


Bill



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       Post #: 106

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/6/2007 8:46:12 PM   
TexasSkyPilot


 

Posts: 685
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		As a businessman, I find Bill's answers to be absolutely spot-on. You introduce the big sellers and these in turn support the setup costs for the smaller sellers that will be requested. And it is true that these items are usually requested from the start (as these higher-channel models always are), but in today's business world you have to be smart and savvy. The higher-channel models mean adding men and machines to the production line, and it means more setup costs to design and produce a different solid state assembly or two fro the other model. "Late" getting items to market is just your present perspective, if you were involved in the actual process you'd see that as Bill said, later doesn't mean LATE. It's just next in line after the first priorities have been addressed. And if you've never learned anything from the Hobby industry, then the first thing you would want to learn is that hype and anticipation are part of the way things happen here. To me, it's a big part of the fun. By the way, just in case you want to know, I fly JR and Spektrum, so I am completely detatched from Futaba in every way. I am however involved in the opening of a factory right now, and we are presently determining which models of our new equipment to put into production first, and which shall follow in the production food chain. Seemed like a good time to chime in!

Jim

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       Post #: 107

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/7/2007 12:51:45 AM   
Plummet


 

Posts: 18
Joined: 3/7/2004
From: Redmond, WA,
Status: offline 		For what it's worth...

Been flying at my local field for several years and hadn't experienced a hit (that I was aware of) until I lost two planes this month - Actually one was when an instructor was with my son, he took off (using my 9C with a synthesis module set to '26') flew about 30 yards and commenced a rolling full throttle dive into the ground - after thinking it over decided not to use the frequency module any more... then a couple weeks later I took off a buddies trainer using his 7C (again on 26) and climbed up to begin a gentle turn so that I could switch control over to him and all of a sudden... no control! (this one was particularly tough because it happened so slowly that I had lots of time freak-out is it crashed). I fly a couple times a week at this field on channel 20 without a problem. Lacking trouble shooting patience and determining that frequency hits are, at least, not out of the question, I decided to spring for a 2.4G system.

Being a long time dyed in the wool "Futaba Guy" I set out to get the 6EX... lhs was sold out (they only stock one at a time) but showed me the capabilities of the DX7... felt great in my hands, user interface was SWEET (much more like my 9c then the prospective 6EX) and just like that I'm now a Spektrum/JR guy (who's even eyeing the X9303 for Christmas). I do love my 9C but unfortunately I just don't feel comfortable about slapping in the module (when it's available) especially since I can, for the same price, get a main-stream homogenous transmitter that sounds to be proven.

(in reply to TexasSkyPilot)
       Post #: 108

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/8/2007 7:46:51 AM   
cjshaker


 

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From: Bend, OR, USA
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Low-channel-count systems are where the largest sales are found. That's why they got introduced first. Modules for the high-end 12- and 14-channel systems are coming.


If low channel count systems are so important, why doesn't the FASST module for the Super 9C
support them?

Chris Shaker

(in reply to Bax)
       Post #: 109

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 9/8/2007 1:07:54 PM   
TexasSkyPilot


 

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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjshaker


Low-channel-count systems are where the largest sales are found. That's why they got introduced first. Modules for the high-end 12- and 14-channel systems are coming.


If low channel count systems are so important, why doesn't the FASST module for the Super 9C
support them?

Chris Shaker


? Low channel count systems are not any more important than the high-channel count systems, they're simply the bigger sellers because many more people use them. Why would a module that apparently was built specifically for a high-channel count system (I'm assuming that a Super 9C, whatever that is, is a high-channel count system from your post) be built to support the low-channel count? Are you saying that NOBODY, including the FASST module manufacturer has made a similar module that will work on a low-channel count system? Or has the FASST module just come out and they haven't yet made a module for the lower channel count? I have to assume with the limited info in your post that the last sentence is the situation you're asking about. And I have an answer, a few of them actually covering a few possibilities. They're either big enough that they can cover the extra costs, or they just don't care about going at it bass-ackwards. In either case, it's not a smart business practice and it doesn't reflect well upon them. UNLESS the Super 9C actually IS their biggest seller. If that is the case, then they're on solid ground.

Hope I've been of some help!

Jim / Devil's Advocate / Realist / Pain in the Butt

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Coming toward you, rightside up or upside down, the low wing gets the stick. Thats THE LAW and it never changes, EVER.

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       Post #: 110

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 10/23/2007 10:21:05 AM   
cjshaker


 

Posts: 135
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: Bend, OR, USA
Status: offline 		The only way I could have one Futaba transmitter that works with all of my FM, PCM, and FASST receivers was to upgrade from my Super 9C to the 12FG. So, that's what I did. Now am waiting for the FASST module for it. Tis supposed to support my 6 channel FASST receivers...

Chris Shaker

(in reply to TexasSkyPilot)
       Post #: 111

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 12/8/2007 4:29:44 PM   
aeajr



Posts: 5525
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Since the last posts here, the market has continued to expand.

From Asia we have a new module based system.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5547

Airtronics has introduced their RD8000 8 channel system at a very agressive price for a midrange 8 channel system. At $230 with receiver this is quite a bargain.
http://www.hobbyclub.com/product_info.php?products_id=554&osCsid=d93821819ddc03bfd0eee42a480748f

Futaba is now shipping the 7C on 2.4 GHz for $280.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXTTM1&P=7

The Futaba 6EX has dropped under $200 with a receiver.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXPZT8&P=ML

Spektrum has announced and is about to start shipping the full range DX6i which essentially replaces the DX6, though you can still get the DX6 new. But why would you want it?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM6600

At the higher end the JR 9303 2.4 GHz system is shipping
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=JRP2915

XPS continues to expand their list of supported transmitters and now offers a small 6 channel reciever
http://www.xtremepowersystems.net/products.php?cat=13

And so 2.4 has now pretty much become mainstream. They are now included in some RTF packages and you can pick up good deals on used transmitters and modules as people upgrade to the newer systems.

Of the major transmitter providers, only Hitec has not entered the market. However you can turn select Hitec radios to 2.4 GHz with modules from XPS. And Hitec says the Spektrum modules will work too.

If you watch the used radio equipment market you see that people are selling off 72 MHz equipment at an ever increasing pace, so if you plan to stay 72, you can pick up some good used equipment.

Any other market news people care to share?

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Ed Anderson
Moderator
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       Post #: 112

RE: 2.4 GHz - A Broad Market Review - 12/8/2007 4:47:51 PM   
DadsToysBG



Posts: 1570
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: Bowling Green, KY, USA
Status: offline 		My old 10X is now worth only $300. I'm staying with it and the module for a while, unless the 12X has a lot to offer. Then I'll keep the 10 for a back-up. Not worth selling. The down side to the low prices of 72 is that it's only to get worse. Until you reach the give away point. You can't sell a wide band radio at all. Many went in the trash cans. When you see trainer compo's with 2.4 that spells the end of 72. Dennis

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(in reply to aeajr)