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Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 4:24:03 AM   
ZoomZoom-RCU



Posts: 471
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Louisa, VA, USA
Status: offline 		This is an odd one, but aren't glitches always odd!! Anyway, I have a 25cc gasser with a strange yet specific glitch issue. Neither the rudder nor elevator servos located behind the firewall glitch a bit, they are rock solid. But what is affected are the dual aileron servos linked via wire harness which are located on extensions out at the wing tips. When the engine is off all is well, but fire it up and the dual ailerons twitch and deflect randomly. They are the ONLY item effected. I made these extension myself from regular wire, could they be acting as an atenna, and if so how do I stop it? Could there be another issue here other than the extensions picking up interference? Any help is much appreciated and TIA!! I have read through a few posts and the only things I have seen are the possibility of using somehting called an isolater, and a shilede spark plug boot. But why (If there was noise being created ) would it only affect the ailerons and not the other two components as well? Thanks for your help!

ZZ.

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 4:40:48 AM   
theradioflyer



Posts: 1209
Joined: 12/11/2004
From: Portage, MI, USA
Status: online 		I would put $ on it that the extensions you made are causing the problem. I've had similar experiences with glitches do to my own solder joints. It's a very weird thing as you mentioned.

God bless!

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 4:55:17 AM   
iron eagel



Posts: 1267
Joined: 7/15/2004
From: Middleboro, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Probably your problem is due to the wire length. The longer the wire the more antenna you have to pick up static. You can try a few things...
A. reroute your leads.
B. twist the leads
C. shield your leads.
D. toroid chokes
E. a grounded shield on your firewall
F. shield you ignition system and leads

You said you made up your own extensions, did you solder your connections? If you just twisted them or used crimp connectors they are not making solid contact. or if they are made up of three pieces of wire and not triple lead that would also allow for more signal pickup. Also did you use the proper size wire, using a lighter gauge can sometimes cause problems.


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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 1:22:35 PM   
Zippi



Posts: 3091
Joined: 6/29/2004
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		ZoomZoom-RCU,

Unplug one of the Aileron extensions you made up and and swap it for one that was bought. If it stops the glitching then you know it's the wires you made up. If so, then replace the other one.


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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 1:50:05 PM   
da Rock



Posts: 6692
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: western, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZoomZoom-RCU

When the engine is off all is well, but fire it up and the dual ailerons twitch and deflect randomly. They are the ONLY item effected. I made these extension myself from regular wire, could they be acting as an atenna, and if so how do I stop it? Could there be another issue here other than the extensions picking up interference?



Yeah, the extensions could be causing the interference. Vibration often causes electrical things to crack a bit. You balance your props? (We have some guys who make it a crusade to advise anyone and everyone that we don't need to balance props nowadays. What you're seeing is a good rebuttal to that advice.) The extension wires could be breaking up inside. I extend my aileron servo wires by soldering in whatever lengths are needed. I've seen one of my perfect jobs fail because of broken wires inside the insulation. It turned out to be lousy wire, btw. But I should have felt it before soldering in that wire.

Vibration is the trigger right. Something is cracked but making a connection somewhere. The connection is good enough until the vibration starts. If you've made the extensions with plugs at each end, I'd suggest making up a new one, and swapping it in on one side and doing the range test again. If it works, then take the just removed extension and use it to check the other wing. If the extensions don't solve the jitters, then buy a new servo and use it almost exactly the same way. Swap out one aileron servo at a time.

"Dual ailerons"???? Two servos per aileron? If so, check out whatever you've got pairing them the same way. Get a good device and swap it in.

Cracked internals or loose connections, either could be the problem. Any components plugged in from the servo to the RX could respond to the vibration.

Speaking of antennas. Does the wing have CF spars? CF wing tubes? anything CF running spanwise? If so, do the aileron wires run near the CF? Vibration suggests the problem isn't one of "antenna interference", but these puppies are strange sometimes.

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 2:14:15 PM   
jetmech05


 

Posts: 1646
Joined: 7/12/2005
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		sounds to me like your extensions are acting as an antenna. the easiest way to fix this, if like said above, you aren't near carbon fiber is to twist the extension wires. if that doesnt help then shield your extension wires. a shield looks like hollow wire mesh. run the extension wires through the mesh. the end of the mesh at the wing tip doesn't connect to anything (floats). the other end run a wire from the shield and connect it to the engine at a mounting bolt or backplate screw.
Zippi has the easiest and quickest solution.
Good Luck

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 2:48:10 PM   
ZoomZoom-RCU



Posts: 471
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Louisa, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks guys! These are all outstanding suggestions. Looks like I have some investigating to do, and I will use your posts as a checksheet as I go through them one by one. I'll let you all know what I discover. Hopefully it won't take too long, but you know how glitches can be! Thanks again and I'll keep you guys posted!

ZZ.

By the way, to be more thorough, the xtensions are not twisted, but I think I'll try that first. The wire runs up the inside of the fuse, into a cabane strut, from the cabane into the wing where it plugs into a "Y" harness which then plugs into the extensions themselves. I think I had better check the y harness plug too to see it it isn't vibrating....could be it. Anyway, I'm not sure what guage the wire is, what do you recommend? Also, all my joints are soldered, not twist or crimped, except for where they are plugged into the y harness. There its a regular male female servo link plug....(could this be it?). Iron eagel, you recommended shielding the leads, with what and how?....this was a thought I had earlier but dismissed....but if it isn't too hard I might try it. All of your suggestions/ideas are greatly appreciated. Now I've gotta go check some things!!



< Message edited by ZoomZoom-RCU -- 7/22/2007 3:01:32 PM >

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 4:03:12 PM   
aerowoof


 

Posts: 1917
Joined: 6/11/2006
From: pembroke, NH, USA
Status: offline 		use an ace glith buster on the airleron leads ,not only will it make the y harness but should stop any rf noise from the extensions.

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 5:23:30 PM   
bigchap


 

Posts: 1040
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: frimley,surrey., UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i've found maplins solder braid to work on any leads that may need shielding,it acts as a faraday cage.

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RE: Aileron-Only-glitches! help - 7/22/2007 6:20:30 PM   
PilotFighter



Posts: 2017
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		my old twin did the same thing. sometimes the ailerons wouldn't work at all. I packed it up and sent it to radio south. They said my xmitter and reciever were dead on perfect. Great. So I but it back in the twin and the ailerons still acted funny. I tried another servo, the third try is the charm. Nope. It turned out it was the extension. Just start swapping out stuff until you find it.

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