Ignitions on A123 Cells??  
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Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 1:18:02 PM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		I've ordered a 5v regulator to install with my A123 2S on-board battery to permit me to eliminate the ignition 4 cell pack. I know I need to carefully check range, etc.

I'm also using Spektrum 2.4, so anticipating no radio issues and plan to use existing ignition switch, cutoff, etc. just as is, just replacing the battery with the output lead of the regulator.

Anyone done this? Comments? Things to check?

(Ignitions that will be tested are the DL 50, and the CH on Brillelli engines)

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 1:47:05 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10192
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		May be fine
The reason I won't use a reg is that as well as limiting voltage - the instant current draw is limited
The closer the batt voltage is to the reg setting (output voltage) the less this will hapen
personally ---on a single cyl engine a 4.8 v - setup - I see nothing which beats a 4.8 v 1400/1500ma Intellect pack - which is tiny and weighs about 3+ounces.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 1:54:46 PM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Yep. You're right, Dick. One reason I want to try this is the "overall" weight loss per plane. Since going to A123, I lost 5.7 oz on the second Rx batt. Take out the ignition, and now up to over 9 ozs. Not a big deal, but good to have happen.

MAIN reason I hope this works is laziness.

If I don't have an ignition battery to fuss with, it's one less thing to remember to do, and one less charger to carry on those "long days". Plus, when 'peaking' after 4 flights or so, I know the ignition will be full, too.

Anyone DONE this yet???

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 2:44:43 PM   
camss69



Posts: 1029
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Mather, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Which battery are you using?

I just received a couple of the A123 racing packs and they are physically pretty large, it would be tough for me to find a place to mount that big of a battery that far forward.

I'd like to get something smaller to use on the Ign, the engine is a ZDZ which doesn't require a regulator on the supplied Ign.

Dick- (and Bob you may be interested in this too which is why I'm mentioning it here)

I had a difficult time locating a switch setup that I liked for the A123 on the RX side of the house.

I emailed Fromeco and they are building me one of their Badger switches with a Deans connector in and two JR type outputs to go directly into the RX.

I realize I loose redundancy by using a single battery and switch, but this is a nice clean simple setup.

The cost was $34

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 3:03:01 PM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Nick - I'm only using ONE, two-cell A123 pack that I made from the DeWalt 36v pack. I installed TWO 22ga male connectors from + and -, and ONE "three wire" male with the orange wire on the center tap between cells. This male mounts to the fuse side in an Ernst housing, and I have the output connector from my Cell Pro wired so that the "node" wire is the orange wire. It works just dandy (thanks to Dick for working with me to come up with this solution). This configuration permits the on-board three wire switches to work normally. I just don't charge through the switch anymore.

To power the ignition regulator, I'll use a "y" off of one of the switch battery input leads.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 3:22:32 PM   
camss69



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quote:

ORIGINAL: aerobob

Nick - I'm only using ONE, two-cell A123 pack that I made from the DeWalt 36v pack. I installed TWO 22ga male connectors from + and -, and ONE "three wire" male with the orange wire on the center tap between cells. This male mounts to the fuse side in an Ernst housing, and I have the output connector from my Cell Pro wired so that the "node" wire is the orange wire. It works just dandy (thanks to Dick for working with me to come up with this solution). This configuration permits the on-board three wire switches to work normally. I just don't charge through the switch anymore.

To power the ignition regulator, I'll use a "y" off of one of the switch battery input leads.


Ahhh... I PM'd Dick a few times but didn't really "get it" we're doing basically the same thing, I was thinking he was saying to have two leads coming from the pack going to two separate switches each with a single lead to the RX.

This plane is for another person and he's using a "old" JR PCM RX, I don't think I should "Y" the ignition off the main pack without being on 2.4.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 4:54:31 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Question.
Are you using just one A123 pack for both the receiver and the ignition?

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 4:55:28 PM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		That's the intent.
One 2S, 2300mah, A123 pack.

Pic attached is concept drawing.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by aerobob -- 7/28/2007 5:08:48 PM >

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/28/2007 9:12:25 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 10192
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		IF--- there is no problem with "crap" coming from the ignition to/thru the batt -to the rx - it should be fine .
Howsomenever - I am a bit spooked of any setup to the ignition which does not allow it to suck a quick deep shot of power.
It won't show on a meter - but a good scope setup will show it
The problem is in a ignition transistor not fully saturating - which means heat which means a shorter life for the transistor.
Both 3W and Jeri Vlach have issued warnings or recommendations on NOT using regs to ignitions and/or not using cells with high impedance -
-
I asked a knowledgeble model engine ignition designer and he 'splained it to me.
, step by step
maybe I am just an old worry wart

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 2:32:07 AM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I would not use a regulator anywhere. The receiver front end has its own regulator built in. You might want to put a good rf filter between the ignition box and the battery or receiver.
Let me know how you make out.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 2:37:40 AM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		The intent of the regulator is to get the voltage down within spec (voltage and current) for the ignition module. The receivers are working just dandy on the straight A123 juice.

Flew 7 flights today.... these were gentle "pattern-like" flights for the most part, and only used 395ma. Not bad. Not bad at all.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 6:50:17 AM   
camss69



Posts: 1029
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Mather, CA, USA
Status: offline 		So would the regulator filter out any potential "crap" coming from the Ign? I don't know if I would be confident enough to use it on a PCM setup.

I've been running that Smart-fly "Ignition Regulator" on my DA and so far I haven't noticed any problems.

I see from your drawing my understanding of Dick's recommendation was correct.



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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 2:00:25 PM   
mrbigg



Posts: 3015
Joined: 10/30/2004
From: Streator, IL, USA
Status: offline 		What's up with these A123 Cells? Never heard of them.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 2:39:24 PM   
Bob Pastorello



Posts: 5403
Joined: 2/23/2002
From: El Reno, OK, USA
Status: offline 		THere's threads everywhere; Google it, LOTS of info out there. DeWalt "pro series" power tools utilize this battery technology.

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RE: Ignitions on A123 Cells?? - 7/29/2007 3:16:06 PM