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what about electrics - 3/12/2003 2:48:14 AM   
kalvin


 

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Joined: 2/16/2003
From: N.Ridgeville,Ohio
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after contacting ama homepage and finding a club near home I tried to contact this club via email and did not receive a response while I was looking at there homepage I did not see any info on park fliers is this how all ama charted clubs work ? The only thing I saw for beginners on their site was a recomendation for a glow engine trainer


signed: not enthusied with club
       Post #: 1

what about electrics - 3/12/2003 6:11:17 AM   
Tippie



Posts: 298
Joined: 12/22/2002
From: Private, GA, USA
Status: offline
Kalvin,
Why don't you go to the club meeting and meet some people, you just missed the monthly meeting last week. Go the to Hobby Town location in Strongsville, on the web site and get info. Click on "Chief Instructor" on the beginners page and e-mail him. Perhaps they have a club trainer plane to learn on, even if it is a glow plane it would give you the experience. The club site isn't RCU so it may take a few days to get an answer. The web site can in no way answer all your questions. I can't think of any club that would ignore anyone on purpose. They need you as bad as you need them. You can't make judgement by standing outside and looking in a window, you have to go in. I think there are some phone numbers you can call if e-mail doesn't get the results you want. Keep trying.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 2

what about electrics - 3/12/2003 8:14:42 AM   
goofup



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Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Yukon, OK, USA
Status: offline
Virtually all AMA clubs are glow clubs and will only teach you on a ".40 size" glow trainer. You can only get their "solo permit" on a glow plane.

In my opinion, this is kinda silly, because there's nothing in their qualifications to get a "solo permit" that any good electric trainer can't do (yea, even a Tiger Moth). It's too bad that these clubs don't have instructors for beginners to learn, and qualify with, to fly at their field with an electric trainer.

THAT BEING SAID, my LHS has trouble keeping Soarstars in stock. The owner said that he's selling them like hotcakes, almost all of them to glow flyers at the club fields because they've discovered how good they fly and how much fun they are.

I wouldn't give up. I'm sure if you do some visiting while you're there you'll find some electric flyers there. If all else fails, introduce the members to electrics!

Goofup

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 3

what about electrics - 3/12/2003 10:22:45 PM   
Matt Kirsch



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Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
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Kalvin,

You have to remember that clubs are run by VOLUNTEERS. They have lives outside of flying, and want to do some flying themselves. They're not obligated to keep the website up to date. Also remember that most of these guys were born before computers, and to them, email is a secondary means of communication. Heck, for some of 'em, TELEPHONES are a secondary means of communication The only reliable way to get their attention is to meet them in person.

Don't discount the club until you've met the people. Remember, these people are VOLUNTEERING their time to help you out. They are not obligated to help you in any way, so you have to work with them on their terms. They may not have free time when you have free time. They may have other more important obligations to attend to. They may already have more students than they can handle.

That said, if you don't like the club, don't join. Nobody's forcing you.

Now, as far as their "requirement" of a .40-size glow trainer goes, there are a few practical reasons for that:

1. The club instructors are intimately familiar with the standard .40-size glow trainer. It's been around for years, and is a well-proven means of learning basic-to-intermediate flying. They know where it should balance. They know how it should be rigged. They know how the engine works, and many of them can tune it in their sleep.

Long story short, you have the best chance of success using the equipment the instructor is most familiar with. In all the time I've been training students, I have not seen one airplane lost on the first flight. The engine may quit because it's still new and needs to be broken in more, but the plane is ALWAYS stable and controllable right from the get-go, because we know how to set these planes up.

2. Most club instructors are not familiar with electric airplanes. Sure, they can tell if the plane is airworthy, check the balance, etc.. Sure, they probably have the skills to fly it, too. The problem arises with the power system. Gee, the plane doesn't seem to have enough power to fly... Most instructors wouldn't have the foggiest idea what to do about it. If it was a glow engine, they could tweak the needle valves to get the engine running properly. Here, they're left scratching their heads, and the student goes home disappointed and clueless, with an unflyable plane.

An instructor is only as good as his knowledge. If he's as clueless about your airplane as you are, what's the point?

3. There are no good electric trainers. It's a proven fact that many pilots who have "mastered" their GWS Tiger Moths and Slow Sticks lack the skills necessary to fly anything more advanced. Go to http://www.ezonemag.com and look up all the trouble with the GWS Zero and P-51. The plane's design is not the issue in most cases, the pilot skill is. I personally know people who only fly slow fliers. The one time one of these guys got ahold of a glow trainer, he flew it knife-edge through the pits, almost re-kitting ME, because he couldn't handle it.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 4

what about electrics - 3/12/2003 10:39:49 PM   
BillK


 

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From: phoenix, AZ, USA
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"
3. There are no good electric trainers. It's a proven fact that many pilots who have "mastered" their GWS Tiger Moths and Slow Sticks lack the skills necessary to fly anything more advanced. Go to http://www.ezonemag.com and look up all the trouble with the GWS Zero and P-51. The plane's design is not the issue in most cases, the pilot skill is. I personally know people who only fly slow fliers. The one time one of these guys got ahold of a glow trainer, he flew it knife-edge through the pits, almost re-kitting ME, because he couldn't handle it."

This is the attitude I've witnessed at the local fields. Most of the glow pilots there aren't familiar with electrics. To say there no good electric trainers is completely false. Lots of 4 channel well behaved electrics that can make you just as good as a pilot as a glow trainer. But if you're looking for instruction and someone to teach you at a field you're pretty much stuck with glow. The fields around here don't even allow electrics to fly.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 5

what about electrics - 3/13/2003 2:21:27 AM   
Peter Khor


 

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From: Norman, OK, USA
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"
3. There are no good electric trainers. It's a proven fact that many pilots who have "mastered" their GWS Tiger Moths and Slow Sticks lack the skills necessary to fly anything more advanced"

Same attitude here at the local AMA fields, my LHS owner though will help out (training or otherwise) with both gas and electric planes. But then again, it's a hobby - you can enjoy it as much as you want, at any level you want.

"Go to http://www.ezonemag.com and look up all the trouble with the GWS Zero and P-51"

And numerous others who enjoy E3D's, MiniFlash, SwitchBack, Bandits, Accords, Logo's, ECO's, 1/4 scale conversions, etc. Head on over there for more help on electrics.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 6

what about electrics - 3/13/2003 6:26:52 PM   
goofup



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From: Yukon, OK, USA
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I agree totally with all the posts so far. For instance, if I was into N gauge model trains, I should not be shocked with any reaction I'd get if I walked into a HO gauge only club.

I think Kalvin (and other newbies) want to go to a club and hear something like "You wanna learn how to fly? Sure, we'll help you! Go see Bob or Ted if you want to learn how to fly gas planes. If you want to learn how to fly electrics, go see Johnny. He knows all about them!"

The obivous answer is to have more electrics-only clubs that have their own electric-knowledable instructors.

Goofup

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 7

There are no good electric trainers - 3/13/2003 11:13:12 PM   
Matt Kirsch



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From: Rochester, NY, USA
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Sorry, it's not an "attitude." It's a FACT.

I'd like you to name me some of these "4 channel well behaved electrics" that make good trainers. I've got a better handle on the products that are out there than most, and I can't find a single solitary example.

Here are the rules, to make it fair:
1. Must be an ARF, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
2. Must come from a well-known manufacturer, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
3. Must cost less than $400 for the airplane, motor, battery, and radio gear, like the typical .40 glow trainer. I'm giving you $400, but many RTF .40 glow trainers can be purchased for $300 or less.
4. Must be able to taxi, take off, and land on a typical semi-smooth grass field, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
5. Must be able to perform stall turns, axial rolls, loops, and combinations thereof, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
6. Must be able to fly for at least 10 minutes, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
7. Must be able to handle moderate winds, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
8. Must have full 4-channel control (A/E/R/T), like the typical .40 glow trainer.
9. Must be one airplane (not a progression through 2-3 separate airplanes, e.g. Tiger Moth for the basics, then progress to a Switchback w/sport wing), like the typical .40 glow trainer.
10. Must come with a recommendation for an appropriate power system, like the typical .40 glow trainer.
11. Must NOT be a conversion of a typical .40 glow trainer. That's cheating, and probably breaks rule #3 anyway

The typical electric primary trainer is only 3-channel, and most of those are park fliers that get hand launched and flop in the grass to land. Only those few who are blessed with a smooth paved runway can learn proper takeoffs and landings. Remember that a club instructor teaches you more than just how to steer the plane.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 8

what about electrics - 3/13/2003 11:33:21 PM   
raymcm


 

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From: carrickuk, UNITED KINGDOM
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What about rule

12. must spend $20 a day on fuel like a typical 40 trainer

If you cannot find an electric to suit these rules then its because you dont want to.........

Forget the $400 and spend more on the motor and batteries because its basically a one off buy unlike fuel for a typical 40 trainer.

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 9

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 3:28:58 AM   
kalvin


 

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Joined: 2/16/2003
From: N.Ridgeville,Ohio
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THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES YOU HAVE GIVEN ME POINTS TO PONDER EVERYONE HAS GIVEN GOOD ARGUMENTS I THINK GOOFUP HAD THE POINT I WAS MOST LOOKING FOR. EVERYONE I'VE TALKED WITH HAS SAID JOIN A CLUB WHICH WOULD BE OKAY WITH ME IF THAT CLUB COULD PROVIDE THE TRAINING I NEED BUT DO IT WITH AN ELECTRIC PLANE. I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN GLOW ENGINE AIRCRAFT AND I'VE TALKED TO SEVERAL GLOW PILOTS THAT HAVE SAID THEY ARE SELLING OFF GAS EQUIPMENT TO GO TO ELECTRIC IF ANYONE KNOWS OF ANY CLUBS IN NORTHERN OHIO THAT FLY JUST ELECTRIC LET ME KNOW KALVIN

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 10

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 9:49:41 AM   
goofup



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From: Yukon, OK, USA
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The fact is that a good trainer doesn't HAVE to be "like the typical .40 glow trainer".

The fact is that a good trainer doesn't HAVE to have 4- channels, which is so hard to learn on that it requires an instructor with a buddy cord.

The fact is that there's nothing wrong with a beginner going through more than one plane, each with progressively agressive flight characteristics, as his skills improve.

The fact is that except for the axle rolls in #5, the 4-channel requirement in #8, and the insistance (over and over and over) that it be "like the typical .40 glow trainer", I don't see why a lowly Wingo couldn't satisify all the requirements (1 thru 11) in the above post.

If you like glow, like clubs, and think .40-size trainers are the only thing you can learn to fly on, then great. (Contrary to popular belief, I'm not against glow.)

However, if you don't, thank goodness we electric people have some alternatives!

Goofup

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 11

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 10:10:11 AM   
Peter Khor


 

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"I don't see why a lowly Wingo couldn't satisify all the requirements (1 thru 11) in the above post"

Because it's pink?

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 12

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 6:01:12 PM   
goofup



Posts: 222
Joined: 12/10/2002
From: Yukon, OK, USA
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"Because it's pink?"

Somehow I knew that was coming....

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 13

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 7:54:50 PM   
mpj220



Posts: 298
Joined: 11/29/2001
From:
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No longer support RCU

< Message edited by mpj220 -- Aug 4 2003 10:44PM >

(in reply to kalvin)
       Post #: 14

what about electrics - 3/14/2003 10:07:34 PM   
Matt Kirsch



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