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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/27/2007 7:24:48 PM   
MHester



Posts: 2415
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		One last word of advice: SAND SAND SAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

The more you are able to leave in the floor, the less the plane will weigh.

Good luck and post pics of the progress!

-Mike

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Owner Custom Airframes of America, Team YS, Mercury Adhesives

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 4:05:46 PM   
srekar


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Plainsboro, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Sanded and glassed. But I can see some very minor inperfections because I cut out some bubbles that came out in the glassing process.

The question is, do I need to deal with those very minor imprefections on the surface before priming it up?? or the primer can take care of these on the final sanding of primer??

Srikar.

(in reply to MHester)
       Post #: 252

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 4:37:49 PM   
MHester



Posts: 2415
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		if it's large and bare wood, I'd cut small pieces and re-glass. if they are very small, just hit them with resin and resand. Primer over bare wood isn't good in the long term. It's fine until you get some age and hot sunlight.

I've definitely experienced the bubbling before and it boils down to one thing: too much resin. if it's properly rolled out and thin and tight, it can't bubble. It' all practice and technique. You will learn SOOOOOOOO much the first one you ever do. I'm sure you've found this to be true.

I am toying with the idea of shooting some video when I glass and paint my own. I wonder if there's any interest in something like that? it sure seems to be a hot subject.

-Mike

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Owner Custom Airframes of America, Team YS, Mercury Adhesives

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       Post #: 253

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 5:00:29 PM   
srekar


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Plainsboro, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Atleast I was looking for the videos before I started the plane. I always used to think on how the sheeting procees and how tough it can be and all. After wathing the video on sheeting cores from Bob Noll, I gained enough confidence that started this kit. I also was searching for the glassing video like crazy and found Don Ramsy's video and learned few thing after wathging that.

So Videos do healp a lot in gaining enough confidence before one actually start doing it. I definetly vote for your Idea.

Srikar

(in reply to MHester)
       Post #: 254

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 5:11:59 PM   
Robbidos



Posts: 243
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: GLENDALE, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		MY "Yes" vote is in.


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- Sun Valley Fliers

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       Post #: 255

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 5:25:13 PM   
MHester



Posts: 2415
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Well here's my thought: one of the reasons people shy away from planes like this is "balsaphobia". I think we can agree he building of this plane is about as easy as it gets (and I'm currently revamping the building manual to make it even more detailed and specific). Lack of confidence is the #1 problem. Once you start glueing, it's all downhill and you wonder what you were so worried about. After you do the first one, you learn SOOOOOOO much that the subsequent ones get better and better and better.

Finishing is no different, except for one thing" no matter what you do, there is a sunstantial amount of work and special equipment involved. but how is this really any different from say, venturing into electrics, or making the jump into a real 2 meter plane in the first place? It's just different, and is probably one skill most would like to have, but also many like having that excuse (reason) not to do it. After all, if your wallet is deep and you don't WANT to spend a lot of time on it, there are plenty of planes to choose from. Oxai comes to mind. This is one of those cases where you're either a modeler or an ARF pilot. I am still amazed at how many people nowadays have never flown anything but ARFs. Now there's not a THING wrong with that, as long as you are ok with whatever you can get whenever you can get it, and aren't crazy enough to be the first guy to discover that it has some serious problems.

But if you have the desire to learn to do this, it's really not that hard at all, but you have to be willing to learn and make a few mistakes along the way. It's a long journey and there will possibly be a few bumps in the road along the way. That has to be ok. I do everything I can to roll out the bumps for you, but I can't think of everything and I'm not there.

The glassing and painting part of this is a great example. There's only so many pictures you can look at but until you see it with your own eyes and do it yourself, it's still a big mystery. Don's video is fantastic, I have a copy myself. It's certainly a great reference and we do a lot of things the same. But, I do a few things different and although I can tell you what they are, it's easier if you see it in motion. of course the logistics of actually doing it are a PITA, but I think it would be worth the trouble.

-Mike

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       Post #: 256

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/29/2007 9:05:58 PM   
onewasp


 

Posts: 1360
Joined: 12/11/2002
From: USA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm with Robbidos!

--------but then I just put away the silkspan and dope-----
I have a ton of experience with balsa (I well remember the old "Balsa Flies Better" slogan) Still do my own designs ------
BUT, I have to admit that your '110' has me salivating more than a little bit!









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The ground reached up and smote my airplane

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       Post #: 257

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 3:40:23 AM   
srekar


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Plainsboro, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		After reading some articales on urethane paint and fume risks, I started worrying a bit to paint the model in my Appt. I am just wondering to know If anybody painted/painting their models inside the home with proper exhaust setup and all. I have been looking at the exhaust fans and related equipment to setup a very small paint booth inside the home if possible. I came across this exhaust fan after understanding that I must use explosion proof fans.

http://www.sprayshield.com/cgi-bin/hazel-cgi/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=fan.html

As I said, I am new to paint, please provide your valuble experience related to the risks and solutions to paint the model. I am looking for some sample setups that gives me an idea to setup my paint booth.


Srikar.

(in reply to onewasp)
       Post #: 258

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 7:04:30 AM   
BrianB


 

Posts: 263
Joined: 3/25/2002
From: Orange Park, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Srekar, you might consider Nelson Hobby paints and HVLP spray kit, I personally have not used the Nelson stuff but have read some possitive threads about it, a common comment is its a little dull compare to the automotive clears. It's non toxic qualities may be good for your situation. Check out the links and see if it fits your needs.

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/spray.html

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html

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Brian Billings

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 5:02:37 PM   
Silver Bullet


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Ft. Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I also have health concerns with urethane coatigs.

Anyone here tried KlassKote? Looks to be about the same as Hobbypoxy or Superpoxy. Had good results with those back in the 80's and 90's. Then they were phased out because of EPA regulations, I believe, so I'm wondering is KlassKote is really the same.
Will it hold up to 30% nitro?

Actually, what about using butyrate (sp) dope. It is supposed to be light. Never used it on a pattern plane but it used to hold up to C/L stunt planes years ago but nitro percentage was minimal (5%?) way back then (don't ask).

Or a combination of epoxy primer and dope top coat?

Bob

< Message edited by Silver Bullet -- 12/30/2007 5:25:04 PM >

(in reply to BrianB)
       Post #: 260

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 5:28:03 PM   
srekar


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Plainsboro, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Seems like they are also urethane based??

http://klasskote.com/paint_store.html

(in reply to Silver Bullet)
       Post #: 261

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 5:34:17 PM   
MHester



Posts: 2415
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		No the formula is not exactly the same...but close.

I do know that it's difficult to make direct comparisons and general statements. I only have one concern: weight. This is a LARGE plane and has a lot of surface area. If careful attention is not payed while doing the finish, one can easily add a lot of dead weight. Sandpaper is your friend....

The trick if there is one, is that you do NOT want to build up the finish with multiple coats. You want the paint to where you can't see through it...and run in the other direction.

I am fairly certain that the Klass koat will withstand 30% nitro, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Nelson's paint works and can be very light if done correctly, but can also be difficult to work with.

Now one thing about the urethanes. Fumes and such are mainly based on past experiences with larger painting guns using high pressure equipment and lots of overspray. With a LVLP or airbrush like i have listed, the overspray and fumes are MUCH less. No worries about explosions with exhasut fans, there's simply not enough vapor concentration to flash. You can spray straight atomized thinner right at the fan motor and it won't do anything (although I DON'T suggest trying that LOL).

The 3 steps where you are going to be creating a lot of overspray are primer, base color and clear if you clear the whole plane. The colors run through the airbrush are next to nothing. And if you use the BCS for the base color, then all you have to worry about is the primer and clear. And the primer can be done in stages, you don't have to do it all at once.

But the respirator thing is real. You do not want to breathe this stuff, and when it is flashing (AFTER all of the overspray has been vented) that is when the fumes are the worst...and you can;t see them. Best advice is to leave for a couple of hours after spraying and keep the ventillation going. After that, you're probably ok. But even then spraying in a small apartment....hmm...just be careful and use your head.

Water based colors will not hold up to nitro on ther own, they still have to be clear coated. Just FYI.

In my humble opinion klass kote may be the best alternative to urethanes, but I don't have any experience with the newer stuff. So hopefully someone will jump in and enlighten us.

But since I have no fear I think I'll just keep using urethanes for myself They are the best for this particular application, no question about it.

Of course there is always dope and silkspan.......

-Mike

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Owner Custom Airframes of America, Team YS, Mercury Adhesives

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       Post #: 262

RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 5:35:45 PM   
MHester



Posts: 2415
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		They have both urethane and epoxy based, thier urethane paint is new for them. And FWIW, it looks like relabeled House of Kolor paints. Good stuff, but do some price checking.

-Mike

< Message edited by MHester -- 12/30/2007 5:38:17 PM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 12/30/2007 8:17:17 PM   
srekar


 

Posts: 82
Joined: 11/29/2006
From: Plainsboro, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		I spoke to Nate, at Klass kote and he told me the paint is 100% nitro proof and also it is same weight as any other paint when it is dry. He also told me that the finish is as good as the urethanes and need not use a clear after base but use "Gloss Catalyst #405" to get glassy finsih.
Dave Platt did an exclusive video for the klasskote paint it seems. U&U Understanding & Using Epoxy Paints 'The Klass-Kote Video'

http://www.daveplattmodels.com/Videos/index.htm

Srikar

< Message edited by srekar -- 12/30/2007 8:23:16 PM >