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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 2:43 AM   
handglider



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From: Hotlanta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Here is a collection of sanding blocks and other products I use.

The "Super Fill" is an amazing product and you can reduce it with a drop or two of acetone. I also use a polyester filler the "Ultimate" product is avaiable at your local auto paint store - it's sandable in 5 mins and feathers really well.

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< Message edited by handglider -- 1/10/2008 2:48 AM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 3:05 AM   
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Status: offline 		Finish up with 320 grit. I use a hard rubber flexible sander to do the turtle decks at this point. You should have a nicely leveled surface at this point with no major surface defects. Now is the time to weight the plane. Mike gives a reference weight of 32 oz for the bare fuse (no canopy or chin) mine hit the scales at 31.75 oz. So I am in the ball park.

Your next step is to brush or spray on a coat of balsarite to seal the surface from the laminating resin. I use a 3/4 or 1" nylon craft brush. Just paint on a nice neat coat. It dries almost as fast as you can paint.

I let the balsarite sit overnight so it gets good and hard. Then just go over the airframe with 320 on the block to smooth out the fuzzies.

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< Message edited by handglider -- 1/10/2008 3:07 AM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 3:18 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Now moving on to the fiberglassing the airframe.

Okay you have taken note on the weight of the plane before the balsarite. You might pick up an oz or less with the blasarite but it should be minimal.

the fiberglass is a 3 stage job. using west systems 105/205 mix up a small batch and reduce it 50% with acetone. The first stage consists of laying the .5 oz cloth on the fin post and 2 oz cloth on the belly area behind the firewall. Cut your cloth to fit, using a small brush apply your resin/acetone mix. then take a small handful of microballons and rub it into the cloth filling the weave. Your done for a soild 12 hours while it cures.

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 7:36 AM   
lodomjr


 

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Status: offline 		Dean,

That figure it out for yourself concept, now that's cool (LOL). Now am I seeing things right are there 2 V3's getting close? They are looking great and as always you do a great job.

Lawrence

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 2:43 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Hey Lawrence,

Well, since you guys are paying me a 6 figure income for this build thread, I have to apologize for that comment.

But really almost every step has been covered and re- covered - These build threads do have the tendency to get stretched out and disorganized. a bit of a reflection on how my life has been the last 6 months. But I do sincerely apologize to everyone, and will answer any direct questions about the build the best I can.

Yes, I've got two wicked VF3s ready for some awesome custom paint and graphics - I'll be a bit busy the next month, now that I am a full time builder/finisher, things are rocking now.

cheers all !

Dean




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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 4:47 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		One thing that I do need to mention at the early finishing stages is the fiberglass parts.

I always prewash all the composite parts in hot soapy water and when dry, vigorously wipe down with acetone to remove any mold release agents. Then with a hard rubber sanding block sand the surface smooth, usually starting with 220 and finishing up with 320. Before your ready to prime these parts use a prep solvent to clean any remaining wax or finger grease and use a pin hole filler made by BVM. It's like a glazing compound that you rub on and wipe off. It's has a light color base so when you filling pin-holes in the canopy, you might have to go back with a small brush and a tiny dab of black base coat to color that area black.


So when your prepping these parts your steps could be:

1. wash is a bucket of hot soapy water
2. wipe down with acetone
3. install on airframe
4. surface prep with 220 - 320 grit paper
5. clean with prep solvent (5-Star - $20/gallon)
6. fill pin holes with BVM filler
7. spray on k-36 primer

< Message edited by handglider -- 1/10/2008 5:57 PM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 5:18 PM   
handglider



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Oh and again - I try to keep things on the lite side here in my shop. any comments I made are purely in jest. I am only trying to help and keep things fun. These planes are actually easy and fun to build. But I totally understand the phobias of build something like a 2m meter pattern ship, I've spent many nights lying in bed rethinking my steps that day. I'm as picky as anyone out there. This first plane that I am now finishing is one of the first prototype kits Mike produced early last year. I think I made most every major component twice just cause it wasn't good enough. It wasn't really needed but I just wanted to fully learn each step in the process and to develop my own process for building. Once you build one, you will see many options for the next. That is what I love about this process, to do it right it's almost a Zen type experience - be one with the airframe grasshopper

These build threads are a lot of work and I am sorry for letting things get a bit dis-organized. I am going to try and make up for my slackness in the finishing stages.

On this first project I am going to illustrate some creative uses of "spray masking" and airbrushing to do a more custom style paint job than the standard 4 color, straight line paint job that seems fairly common. I will also demonstrate some airbrushing techniques for simple color shading and blending to illustrative techniques using spray masks and free hand templates. I have an advantage over the average builder as I do have a 24" DC servo controlled vinyl cutter in my shop and a graphic design background in vector illustration, but I am happy to share everything I've got.

Some of the other products I will be using in the finishing stages are:

5-Star Prep Solvent and Degreaser - available at you local auto paint store
BVM Pin-hole filler
3M - blue fine line masking tapes in 1/8 and 1/4" widths
PPG k-36 primer
PPG DCC and DBC paints
SEM Candy paints
PPG Clear





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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 5:49 PM   
handglider



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An update on weights: this plane was at 31.6 oz before basarite, the coat of balsarite added .4 oz to the plane it is now at 32 oz before the first stage of fiberglass. I am going to record weights thru every stage of the finishing process. If possible I would like to paint the wings and stabs, but I will first focus on just he fuse and rudder to make sure I'll be hitting that magic 10.5 lb mark - shouldn't be a problem - the infamous red plane that I glassed and painted finished out to be 10.5 lbs.

one of the nice things about the balsarite is it hardens the surface and makes it a bit easier to see the surface leveling and defects. I noticed I can do a little more sanding to the top of the fin and rudder cap - I'm only talking about 1/64" here but a little extra work will get things a little more flush. Figuring the time invested to this point - an extra 15 mins here or there is not a lot. And I might be able to shave off .1 oz of balsa getting my weight back down a bit.

the thing to keep in mind here is it's always better to keep a critical eye on the project, always look back on previous steps as you move forward. It's easy to overlook something small at any of the finish stages that can come back and cause a major redo during the next step.

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 5:53 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		maybe now is a good time to talk about SCALES.....

I use two scales in my shop.

http://www.rightonscales.com/web/i500.htm

http://www.rightonscales.com/web/kd-7000.htm


these scales are affordable, replaceable (if dropped off the shop table) and work well. As Mike says scales are your best tool in the shop. Scales keep it real.....

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/10/2008 6:32 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		a quick note on paint guns, airbrushes and compressors.

I highly recommend using a HVLP paint gun for primer, large area base coats and clear coats. The big advantage of the hvlp gun is less over-spray, less product use and ease of use. The price range of is less than $50 for a HVLP gun from an on-line retailer like harbor freight to a high end professional gun like the Sata MiniJet. I use the Sata Minijet 4 in my shop along with the Sata micro air regulator - that's a $400 investment but it can shoot color and clear coats with a glass like gloss. Regardless of hvlp gun you use it's important to get an air regulator that installs on the grip of the gun. You want to run the gun with as little air pressure as possible to prevent as much over-spray as possible.


For airbrushes again there is a price range of about $50 for a low end Badger- to $100 mid priced Iwata - to $300-$400 for a top end professional Iwata or Peak. Most builders will do fine with something in the $100 or less price range - The Iwata Eclipse is a great choice - I prefer gravity feed but most airbrushes are available in side and bottom feed configurations. I am shooting the Kustom Iwata CS, Peak Mojo and Moflo Airbrushes.

These are available from:

http://bearair.com/

http://dixieart.com/

http://www.learnairbrushstore.com/


Compressors come in a wide range of pricing and usage - Get what you can afford and don't skimp here as there are a million uses in your shop for compressed air. The Iwata PowerJet is a great choice http://dixieart.com/Iwata_Power_Jet_Air_Compressor.html - but a bit pricey. I also use a 26 gallon upright shop compressor, drives my hvlp guns, airbrushes, and 3" pneumatic buffer. I think I paid less than $200 for the unit.












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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 12:43 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		another cool tool is the OLFA rotary cutter, works great on fiberglass and carbon cloths. Most office supply and art stores have these is stock

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< Message edited by handglider -- 1/11/2008 12:44 AM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 12:47 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		here is a shot of the rudder with the first stage of fiberglass, I do the leading edge and top of the rudder with one piece of .5 cloth, thinned west systems and micro balloons. This may actually be a 4 stage process to do the leading edge and top, one side and bottom, other side and bottom and trailing edge. You have plenty of cure cycles to work while your finishing the fuse. I have this little stand to keep the rudder vertical while this first stage cures.

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 7:40 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		HI all,

More notes on the first stage of fiberglass. When doing the fin post apply your slow west systems reduced with acetone (about 50% reduction) with a epoxy brush. Just do a thin coat with the brush. It's a small area and with the reduced resin it's hard to add too much epoxy. Once you've brushed on the epoxy rub in your micro-balloons. On the lower chin area use 2 oz cloth, there is no need to fill the weave with micro-balloons as it will be enclosed by the chin cowl - it will fill well enough with the primer - it's also too hard to sand that area if you do use the micro balloons.

Once these areas cure, I trim away excess cloth with a single edge razor and sand flush any overhang. then your ready for next steps...

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 7:49 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		When applying the fiberglass the the fuse sides I use a 2 1/2 brush and a 2" foam roller. I buy my .6 oz fiberglass cloth in rolls from CST. You can get rolls in 25" widths which are perfect for our use here. The advantage in buying the fiberglass in rolls is that there are no folds to fight and no need to "iron" the cloth. Lay the fuse on it's side, on a stand, as it's helpful to elevate the fuse to allow the cloth to hang while working the resin and balloons....

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 11:13 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Mix up a 50 g batch of West Systems 105/206 (slow hardener) and add 20g of Acetone. This is a good working reduction. Once you have your cloth positioned to cover the entire side of the airframe start from the center and brush a coat of the reduced resin out from the center. using the brush you can pull the cloth and eliminate any wrinkles and such. Just take your time brushing. You will notice with the reduced resin it's almost impossible to lay up too much resin as it is thin and runs off really well. Your just wetting and spreading here.

If your nervous, just keep breathing this stuff has an extended working time and if you think you really screwed up, just yank the entire piece of cloth off the airframe and start over. Also be careful of lose threads getting wadded up in your brush or laying across the cloth - you just want to work at a slow pace spreading the resin, trying not to make a big mess and just making things nice and even

Once you have a nice coat take the foam roller and start rolling the cloth out again starting from the center, you will start picking up resin, using a clean rag or paper towel, start ringing out the foam roller as you go. You will notice any small bubbles will go away as you push the cloth into the surface with the roller - you will also notice the resin forming a nice even layer with the weave of the cloth. keeo working the resin with the foam roller until satisfied that you have both rolled up all the excess resin and that you have created a smooth, level and even surface.

Between one fuse side and one side of the rudder I used appx. 40 grams of resin (just a guess I had a lot on the paper towel and foam roller and almost 8 grams left in the mixing cup)

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< Message edited by handglider -- 1/11/2008 11:17 PM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 11:21 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		The awesome thing about this finishing method is since you sealed the wood with balsarite you are trapping the resin between the surface of the wood and the top of the weave. Just take your time rolling and wiping the foam roller you want the resin to have a matted look to it and a smooth appearance.

this is easy within 5 mins your will get the hang of it and be a pro.....

just remember to keep breathing and don't start hurrying...

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/11/2008 11:54 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Now for the fun part (okay I know I am a bit of a sicko here)

Let's play with the microballoons

I use 3M Micro Bubbles available from Aircraft Spruce - I've used the Top Flight product before and these just seem like a higher quality product. It might be exactly the same but I can buy a 1 lb sack for the same price you can get the little Top Flight bottle at your LHS. Yea, this might be a life time supply for the average modeler, I think I paid less than 10 bucks for this sack.

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 12:05 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Okay, you've got your resin rolled out nice and pretty.

Take small handfuls of the microballoons and sprinkle it over the surface. It easier to do the flat, level areas first to get a the hang of it. With the palm of your hand just lightly rub and push the MBs around first it will be sticky and tacky but once you cover the area with MBs the tackyess goes away flip the plane around to do the turtle decks and fin area. It's really easy and here is no reason to get stressed. Just take your time. It's kind of like finger painting I guess.

Please use a dust mask with this stuff, even with the 3M dust mask you will still get a gritty taste in your mouth. Also if you have small pets or wifes in the area, please ask them to leave the room. on warmer days I usually do this out side as the MBs float in the air and this process is a bit messy. I usually shop vac the area as soon as I am done.

The cool thing about how the MBs work is if you have a heavy area of resin more MBs will stick in that area absorbing the resin. Let this happen, you will be sanding off about 90 percent of the MBs and all the excess resin.

I completed this at around 11 am this morning, it's now 7 pm as I am writing this thread, the 206 hardener is about a 15 hour full cure, I won't be ableto do the other side till tomorrow morning.

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 12:08 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Here is one final shot for tonight, the glassed rudder, before MBs.

this is super easy guys, everyone should be glassing their planes - including you PETE !



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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 12:18 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		dang, I wish I could do that other side tonight. Hopefully I should get the other side down in the morning and be able to prep and primer the plane 2-3 days from now.

One thing about the fiberglassed base - it's good to let it cure good and hard before any real sanding. Once I am finished with the other side I will have to wait at least a solid 24 hours to get the good cure. I may even wait an extra day.....

Just one more thing that helps you achieve that "Plate Flatness" that looks "Super Awesome" once your all done and cleared.

Cheers all !!!

(about to crack a friday night Heineken)






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< Message edited by handglider -- 1/12/2008 12:33 AM >

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 12:43 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		okay one last post,

I put the untrimmed, un-sanded plane (post 293 above) on the scales I've added 3.5 oz of weight so far to the airframe,

I should be able to trim and sand close to half of that weight off the airframe - If I can complete the entire fiberglass base under 4 oz that would be awesome. We will see soon......

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 12:53 AM   
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Status: offline 		Dean you are the man dude!!!!!!!! You are way ahead of me, but I'm on time and Chris is getting itchy thumbs. You know you and I don't stand a chance. LOL

Lawrence

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 1:07 AM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Larry,


Yea I know... I think our only chance is if some hot little redhead gets him all messed up. oh to be young and love sick..........


LOL.....

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 4:19 PM   
handglider



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Status: offline 		Okay....

Got up this morning and trimmed all the overhang cloth off with a safety razor, just try to get as much excess cloth as you can with the razor. The next step is to sand the margins of the cloth with 220 or so, and as always on a sanding block. you will see that any additional excess cloth will sand away easily. Also inspect the glassed area for coverage, surface defects and and other foreign particles that could be trapped under or on the glass.

I did a rough over all sanding with the block, put the plane half glasses and not final sanded on the scales and its right at 34 oz - that is a 2 oz gain at this point and I still have all the major surface sanding and prep work to do. I am a bit surprised at only a 2 oz gain, and the surface still has at least a 1/64- 1/32" thick base of micro balloons, I need to sand off at least 80% or so off this base. you will want to get it down to the weave. Right now the surface of the plane looks like someone spread vanilla cake icing all over her

Sure seems like I should be around 3 oz for the entire glassed base once it's complete. This process is 100% repeatable and just follow the steps that have been outlined here and on Mike's forums. The only thing you have to deal with is the amount of sanding you committed to at this point. Of course all of the intensive sanding is during the glassing and priming stages. Be prepared to spend up to 2 hours on each sanding cycle. Only use sanding blocks, use your point light source. Remember this is precision sanding, keep your focus on what you are working. 30 seconds of over-sanding will ruin all your work.

Not investing the time sanding is an even bigger mistake. You will end up with a heavy plane with a very poor surface. considering the cost in the original kit, the materials to build and finish the kit and the time you all ready have invested, not a good decision to get a lame here - it would be a shame not to try to get that first class finish...

I use a large foam pad to protect/support the fuse on a table out side or in the garage so to keep the dust down, the resin/microballons and primer dust floats everywhere, use a dust mask at all times...

Mike what is the side area of the VF3? - would like to get a weight per sq/in for this finish.

sorry the cameras on charge or I would be getting some pics at the moment.

once I get a little breakfast I'll be hitting the second side of the glass. I may even turn on the dragon fire webcam if anyone is interested.


AND GO PACKERS !!!

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RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread - 1/12/2008 4:32 PM   
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Status: offline 		Side area is 860 square inches or thereabouts.

Oh what a difference thinning the resin makes

"Don't get lame, that would be a shame"....LOL I love it...

-Mike

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