RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion
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RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/11/2007 2:48:23 PM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Hi all
I flew the brushless DF andi enjoy it very much. i found that the yaw movement is slow compare to other axis so i adjust the number 4 channel expo. to +30 both side and now it fly better(try it).
Iam going to order the FC 600 frame for the lage frame. frame is 580mm left to right and 610mm front to back

http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=814_815_933

Have a nice day
Moti

(in reply to 13BRV3)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/11/2007 11:10:46 PM

13BRV3

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline

Hi Moti,

Good to hear it's flying. Is the one you're flying now the larger DF frame with outrunners?

I "tested" my roll cage today

I was making the first flight with the camera in continuous still mode, and got blown downwind of my yard.

There have been a few occasions with the large DF and camera pod, where I seem to have very limited bank authority. Yaw and throttle are fine, but it's as if a really low rate setting had been applied to the left/right and fore/aft channels. I was fine until I got up to about the treetop level, then it started downwind. I applied full back stick (pointing away from me), and even tried yawing it in a complete circle trying full stick in every direction that was upwind at the time. I tried lowering it to about 20 ft to get out of the wind, but it was still heading for the neighbors tree. Finally, I just chopped the throttle and let it fall to avoid the tree. It fell directly upside down, but the roll cage held, and there was no damage at all to the board. All I had to do was replace all 4 broken props, and it's good as new

I did another test outside, and bank authority is just fine now. There must be some sequence of events when turning it on and calibrating it that cause this, and I do recall forgetting to turn on the Ti initially. I'll have to keep an eye out for this, and try to figure out what causes it. Anyone else ever seen this before ?

Cheers,
Rusty

< Message edited by 13BRV3 -- 10/11/2007 11:54:52 PM >

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/12/2007 5:06:07 PM

Posts: 33
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Koh Samui, THAILAND
Status: offline

Hi All

Her is my report from the first flights with the big frame (main carbon tubes are each 30cm long = 64cm diameter) and the BL conversion (all parts as in Mikes description)

1st flights:
On the first function test on the ground with TI disabled I noticed that the rear motor was stopping randomly or was reacting strange but mostly with little throttle while with 60% throttle it seems to work almost correctly I changed the motor for a test but still the same so I guessed it is the ESC but I couldn't change it because I didn't have any spare ones at that time. So I gave it a try because I couldn't wait to see it flying.
Had some wind and it was nearly dark so I had only 2 batteries of flight. It
was flying very well even with the bad ESC but I had a strong yaw to the right.

2nd flights a week later:
I changed the ESC and made the function test and it was ok.
So I went out to try it. Had strong winds again and it was overcast. I armed
the DF with TI on and started the first flight. Everything was fine but the flighttime was short with just 5 minutes. But I can can say for sure that with the standard DF I would not dare to fly in such winds but with the conversion it was no problem.
Second flight started with a bit strange behavior and the battery died after 2 minutes (so I thought) I checked the batteries power and it was fine. So, I armed the DF again with the same battery and I could fly another 5 minutes.
Third flight was the same story - no power after 2 minutes. I decided to try it with TI off and the same battery was working again for another 5 minutes. So it looks like a TI problem.

The question is:
If TI had problems with the overcast (even with 2 LEDS on when arming) can it be that TI will signal low battery and shut down the system?

Otherwise (when it was working) I was happy with the results. The large frame is smoother to fly, less shaky and you can see it much better when you are high in the sky of course.

Maybe the more stable flying is because the gyros are not overreacting as some mentioned in the posts before and/or because of the bigger space between the rotors so they don't effect each others stream.

I also got the optocouplers from medusa and installed them instead of the homemade ones.
Tomorrow I will do some more testing with the new setup and will try some flights without TI to check if it makes a difference in the behavior, if is more difficult with the big frame compared to the standard one and if the flying times improve or not.

I try to post some video if things work out and the monsum takes a napp.
Bernd

(in reply to 13BRV3)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/12/2007 5:21:23 PM

Posts: 33
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Koh Samui, THAILAND
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

Hi Bernd,

Looking forward to hearing your report after replacing the bad ESC.

I have some of the large carbon fiber square tubing from Hobby-lobby and it looks like they would be excellent for larger frames. The problem is coming up with a right angle mounting approach for the cross brace. I would like to avoid drilling the tubing and instead use some sort of clamping approach for the brace and motor mount.

Mike

Hi Mike

I am also thinking about how to connect the carbon without drilling holes in it as I do not trust the epoxy clue they recommend to much - though I didn't try it yet.
I ordered already different sized tubes/rods/squares/plates/shapeable plates and some different clue to test things out.
Anyhow I thing the clamping approach - with some additional clue?- can do the job.

Bernd

(in reply to Old Man Mike)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/13/2007 7:03:35 PM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Hi Rusty, mike and all

I finish the large frame DF but i have a problem

only the throttle work ,motor spin OK to the correct direction but other channel did not react. when I open the throttle and tilt the DF gyro did not also react. I have the old board and i made the berg mod , cut the PPM connection between the vertical and the horizontal boards and connect the PPM signal from the berg receiver direct to the bottom plug like rusty shows in the previous post.
Please helpppppppp

Moti

(in reply to kokomiko)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/13/2007 11:02:07 PM

13BRV3

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline

Hi Moti,

The best guess I can make is that you might have the black lead to the ESC fully grounded. That would allow the throttle to work normally, and remove any control that the hexfets have.

Here's a test- Turn on the power switch on the DF. Plug in the battery, but do NOT arm the DF. At this point, does the throttle operate the motors at normal speeds?

On a correct setup, the motors should barely turn, or maybe not turn at all until you arm the DF. If your motors run normally with the DF NOT armed, then you've grounded the ESC rather than letting it run through the hexfets on the main board.

Again, this is just a guess.

Rusty

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 7:19:02 AM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

< Message edited by msarid -- 10/14/2007 10:30:26 AM >

(in reply to 13BRV3)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 10:29:16 AM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Hi rusty
I made a BIG BIG BIG mistake........... forgot to install the optocoupler so i think i damage the board I replace the board from the other DF and it works OK. now I am going to rout back all the wire and make some test with the large frame if the wind "let"me do it
because now there is strong wind outside.

< Message edited by msarid -- 10/14/2007 2:34:57 PM >

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 2:44:35 PM

13BRV3

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline

Glad to hear that you got it sorted out Moti. Too bad about the board though

Rusty (in UAVP mode)

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 2:50:52 PM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Hi Rusty
I install the optocoupller and evrything work perfect I made some hover's outside in small area 3x3 meter and it hover great the frame is 70cm from motor axis.i will wait to the wind to be calm then i can make more flight

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(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 3:23:38 PM

13BRV3

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline

Looks good Moti. When it was hovering, did you just put down the transmitter and take some pictures

Rusty

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 4:08:09 PM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Pic's was taken an hour ago and I just put down my wife

for this

(in reply to 13BRV3)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/14/2007 6:23:31 PM

Posts: 33
Joined: 9/19/2006
From: Koh Samui, THAILAND
Status: offline

Follow-up

Confused!
Yesterday I was trying again:
Started without TI and it was nearly ok until I gave a bit "power" throttle....it just rolled to the right and crashed...no damage though...tried again - very carefully...same effect.
Holded it down to the ground and gave throttle...the right motor started to shake up like crazy as more throttle I applied.
Decided to change the motor and ESC.
Went back for a test flight: The shaking had stopped but not the sudden rolling to the right when I gave more throttle.
I checked the DF and moved the ESC's a bit and tested again (very carefully). Now it seems to be quite stable. I also tried with TI and suddenly the "low power" after 2 minutes vanished and the flight time was back to app.7 minutes. Strange !?
Had to stop because of rain and tried it again today.
First flight without TI was ok until I tried some power-ups. Chrashed to the right again. After some test flights I noticed that the right drift only/mostly happened when the DF was coming down and when I applied throttle to catch it before it hits the ground....so it looks like if to much power is needed very quickly, then there is something working wrong or cannot handle the amps. When flying moderate everything was fine and smooth.
So I suspect the left ESC is bad as well or I did something wrong while programming the ESC..
Back home I connected the programming card and started with the first row and confirmed the setting (pressing ok)
I realised that after pressing ok it needed a long time to stop and it was playing some sounds (this normaly happens when you program the sound).....very strange as it took only a second normaly.
I also noticed that the resistor was getting very hot very quickly which is unusual.
So I changed the ESC (the third one now from the first 4 I received) and started programming. Voila! Everything went as it should...1 second to confirm..no hot resistor.
Hm....3 bad ESC's out of four?
I will do another test again as soon as possible to check if the system is now working after the 3rd ESC change......arrg...

For the overall performance (when flying moderate so far) I would say it is much more stable then the original DF and much more easy to hold the altitude.

I will post some video soon.

Bernd

(in reply to msarid)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/15/2007 4:54:12 PM

msarid

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline

Hi all
I hope all of you had a good weekend

I flew today the two DF in the same weather condition(light wind) the origial DF fly better then the 70cm DF frame.it more stable and more manouverable.
The large frame is more "lazy" and i have to play match more with the Tx stick's to keep it stable. I made some changes in the ATV and the EXPO but no change. I think,and it was mentioned previous post that gyro's do not "fit" this frame size so i want to make it smaller. any recomandation??????

(in reply to kokomiko)

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 10/15/2007 5:12:20 PM

13BRV3

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline

Hi Moti,

My recommendation would be to wait a week or so and see what Mad Scientist Mike has up his sleeve

Seriously, it sounds like he's hacking the gyro gain to be able to customize it for different sizes of frames. I was pretty tempted to try this myself when he mentioned it, but decided to keep working on the UAVP instead, since that has the potential to be better than the DF. Should be powering that up later today.

Bernd,

You really have bad luck with ESCs it seems. They don't seem to be very reliable, but it's pretty hard to believe you only got one good one out of 4. I've looked at some other ESCs in the same price range, but haven't really found one with the same features, notably the soft start.

Cheers,
Rusty

(in reply to msarid)