RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Draganfly Innovations Products >> RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/19/2007 8:35:05 PM   
Old Man Mike


 

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Huntertown, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: msarid

Hi
I orderd all the parts but I can't find the motor's, do you know were i can find it or there is alternative motor.
Thanks
Moti


I contacted Unitied Hobbies in Korea about the possibility of selling the Feigao 1308441S motor since they sell other Feigao motors. I thought that since they are close to China where the motors are made, they might be able to obtain them quickly. BP Hobbies has a link called "Notify Me When Available" at the bottom of the Motor link. Maybe if everyone clicked on that link (even if you are just a little bit interested), it will get their attention and make things go faster. I have only one spare motor myself and would have ordered more if I had known about the short supply.

I've also taken another look at alternative motors and so far have found nothing that compares to the efficiency of this motor in the 1 to 4 Amp range for the 2300 RPM/V speed:

Feigao 1308441S Motor Data

(It is amazing to me that any motor can approach 90% efficiency for this size, cost and power. That is why they run so much cooler than the brushed motors even when carrying 3 times the weight.)

In order to use the existing 10 tooth pinion, the motor will need to have a 2mm shaft and be an inrunner type to mount in the existing motor mount. I suppose you could drill the pinion for a 2.3mm shaft if you found a good substitute with that shaft size.

Mike





(in reply to msarid)
       Post #: 51

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/19/2007 11:05:26 PM   
13BRV3


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I spent (wasted is an ugly word) quite a bit more time today looking at the signals on a non-Berg board. I'm quite certain now that the separate throttle signal is not available, but I did find some other interesting things.

The large aux connector on the bottom of the board has the combined RX signal with what appears to be seven channels. This is the same signal that I believe feeds the controller from the old style receiver. It also has the separate pulse for channel 5 (TI) and channel 6 (no function that I know of).

A question for Mike- In the standard DF setup, the hexfets do all the work of changing motor power. In your setup, you also have a throttle input to the ESCs. What would happen if someone with an old board used channel 6 to simulate a throttle signal? They could enable the ESCs via channel 6, then set it to max position. The normal DF throttle would still have full control of the motors via the hexfets wouldn't it? Do you think this would work?

Thanks,
Rusty



(in reply to Old Man Mike)
       Post #: 52

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 1:44:42 AM   
VRNowhere


 

Posts: 16
Joined: 1/28/2007
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:


The Berg boards are quite new, so unless you got yours in the last few months, it's likely you have the "older" style. I couldn't find a great pic of the new Berg board, other than one that was posted about the glue coming loose. The old boards had a receiver built into the vertical board, but the new boards use a tiny Berg (brand name) receiver that's glued to the vertical board. I'll attach the best pics I have.


Thank you for the information.

(in reply to 13BRV3)
       Post #: 53

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 2:31:40 AM   
Sky High



Posts: 1511
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 13BRV3

... It also has the separate pulse for channel 5 (TI) and channel 6 (no function that I know of). ...

Channel six is a regulated 5v output available in that multi-pin connector under the flight board. It can operate servos or just power an accessory. I use it to power my nav lights.

_____________________________

Up there, you don't have time to think, if you think, you're dead!
Never mess with a pilot having more rotors than you!

(in reply to 13BRV3)
       Post #: 54

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 4:18:18 AM   
Old Man Mike


 

Posts: 267
Joined: 4/21/2007
From: Huntertown, IN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 13BRV3

A question for Mike- In the standard DF setup, the hexfets do all the work of changing motor power. In your setup, you also have a throttle input to the ESCs. What would happen if someone with an old board used channel 6 to simulate a throttle signal? They could enable the ESCs via channel 6, then set it to max position. The normal DF throttle would still have full control of the motors via the hexfets wouldn't it? Do you think this would work?

Thanks,
Rusty


Rusty,

It is interesting to hear your thought process since I went down that same road. During the initial development when I used a separate receiver for the throttle pulse, I initially tried using channel 6 which is controlled via the knob on the side of the Futaba transmitter. I did not stay with that approach very long since it was most clumbersome to deal with an extra speed control, especially at low throttle levels. If you keep the duty cycle high to the motor when the main trottle is down, the current will shift from the hexfet over to the small resistor used to keep the voltage from falling below the 4.5 volt level. That will cause a shutdown of the motor and then you have to do a restart. After playing around with it, I finally shifted to using the single throttle control for both and was quite surprised that it worked so well.

Mike

(in reply to 13BRV3)
       Post #: 55

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 12:36:51 PM   
msarid


 

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

quote:

ORIGINAL: msarid

Hi
I orderd all the parts but I can't find the motor's, do you know were i can find it or there is alternative motor.
Thanks
Moti


I contacted Unitied Hobbies in Korea about the possibility of selling the Feigao 1308441S motor since they sell other Feigao motors. I thought that since they are close to China where the motors are made, they might be able to obtain them quickly. BP Hobbies has a link called "Notify Me When Available" at the bottom of the Motor link. Maybe if everyone clicked on that link (even if you are just a little bit interested), it will get their attention and make things go faster. I have only one spare motor myself and would have ordered more if I had known about the short supply.

I've also taken another look at alternative motors and so far have found nothing that compares to the efficiency of this motor in the 1 to 4 Amp range for the 2300 RPM/V speed:

Feigao 1308441S Motor Data

(It is amazing to me that any motor can approach 90% efficiency for this size, cost and power. That is why they run so much cooler than the brushed motors even when carrying 3 times the weight.)

In order to use the existing 10 tooth pinion, the motor will need to have a 2mm shaft and be an inrunner type to mount in the existing motor mount. I suppose you could drill the pinion for a 2.3mm shaft if you found a good substitute with that shaft size.

Mike





Hi
What do you think about this motor, KV is little high but I think DF can handle it.

Moti
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLWW4&P=M
This is the motor spec.

Motor Diameter: 0.787" (20mm)
Motor Length: 1.18" (30mm)
Shaft Diameter: 0.079" (2mm)
Shaft Length: 0.413" (10.5mm)
kV Rating: 2650 rpm/V
Weight: 1.6oz (45g)
Input Voltage: 7.4-11.1V
Max. Constant Current: 5.5A
Max. Surge Current: 10A
Max. Constant Watts: 61W
No Load Current: 0.4A



< Message edited by msarid -- 8/20/2007 2:39:59 PM >

(in reply to Old Man Mike)
       Post #: 56

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 4:43:14 PM   
Blackdragan


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2005
From: Sioux Falls, SD, USA
Status: offline 		Good news! I just spoke with Dave Peru from BP Hobbies and they have the Feigao 1308441S brushless motor in stock. There was an error in the their previously inventory listing which has now been corrected. They have 30 motors in stock. http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V219349

John

(in reply to Old Man Mike)
       Post #: 57

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 5:32:52 PM   
13BRV3


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

Rusty,

It is interesting to hear your thought process since I went down that same road. During the initial development when I used a separate receiver for the throttle pulse, I initially tried using channel 6 which is controlled via the knob on the side of the Futaba transmitter. I did not stay with that approach very long since it was most clumbersome to deal with an extra speed control, especially at low throttle levels. If you keep the duty cycle high to the motor when the main trottle is down, the current will shift from the hexfet over to the small resistor used to keep the voltage from falling below the 4.5 volt level. That will cause a shutdown of the motor and then you have to do a restart. After playing around with it, I finally shifted to using the single throttle control for both and was quite surprised that it worked so well.

Mike



Hi Mike,

Yes, interesting indeed. It's also a real convenient having you test all this before I even think of it

Since the motors are back in stock, I ordered mine, as well as everything else. The only out-of-stock item is the adapter mount plate from DFI. I'd bet those can be found other places, though I haven't looked yet. Worst case, I can make my own, but if anyone finds another source, please let me know.

The only unknown for me is how I'll handle the throttle signal for the ESC's. I found some comments online about using a CD4017 decade counter to decode the pulses, so I may give that a try, though I haven't figured out the details to make it behave correctly. I hate having to add another receiver, but at least it's an easy option. It would be even easier if I hadn't dumped all my 72 MHz stuff on Ebay when 2.4 GHz came out

Cheers,
Rusty (let the waiting begin...)

(in reply to Old Man Mike)
       Post #: 58

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 5:56:45 PM   
Blackdragan


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2005
From: Sioux Falls, SD, USA
Status: offline 		Rusty,

I think you can purchase the motor adapter mount plate here: www.helihobby.com/html/helicopter_brushless.html
You need to scroll towards the bottom of the page to locate it. Please let me know if this is the same one DFI uses.

Thanks,

John

(in reply to 13BRV3)
       Post #: 59

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 6:10:33 PM   
13BRV3


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the link John. I'd be surprised if it wasn't he same as the one DFI sells, but unfortunately they only have one in stock. Theoretically, I should be hearing from DFI to see how I want them to handle the backorder, and I'm hoping they can give an ETA then. If it's too long, I'll probably drop the item, then either find or make it.

Rusty

LATER NOTE- I just ordered 4 adapter rings from- http://www.maxxprod.com/mpi/mpi-29b.html I have no idea yet if they're in stock, but we'll make it a race between them and DFI I guess



< Message edited by 13BRV3 -- 8/20/2007 8:44:29 PM >

(in reply to Blackdragan)
       Post #: 60

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 8:27:08 PM   
Blackdragan


 

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/18/2005
From: Sioux Falls, SD, USA
Status: offline 		Rusty,

Thanks for finding this new source. I just spoke with MPI and they have the motor adapters in stock.

Thanks,

John

(in reply to 13BRV3)
       Post #: 61

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 8:51:28 PM   
13BRV3


 

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: Navarre, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hi John,

Thanks for checking on that. Even in the order confirmation, there was no indication of whether they were in stock or not.

Rusty


(in reply to Blackdragan)
       Post #: 62

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 9:12:51 PM   
msarid


 

Posts: 87
Joined: 5/21/2003
From: petah tikva, ISRAEL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

Good news! I just spoke with Dave Peru from BP Hobbies and they have the Feigao 1308441S brushless motor in stock. There was an error in the their previously inventory listing which has now been corrected. They have 30 motors in stock. http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=V219349

John

Hi all
I need help from you. BP Hobbies do not make international orders so maybe one of you can order it for me. I will paypal the money before making the order.

Have a nice day
Moti

(in reply to Blackdragan)
       Post #: 63

RE: SUCCESS! - A Brushless DF Conversion - 8/20/2007 10:44:56 PM