RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy?  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - 3D & Aerobatic >> Aero-Works Support >> RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy?
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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:06:42 AM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Very cool. I don't know the brand name as I bought the plane second hand. If I post a pic, do you think you could identify it? BTW, I know there are different style pipes out there...this one does actually look like a can. There is a header pipe that mates to the pipe going into the can via a flex coupler. I assume you would make the cut at the end of the header pipe?

there are some numbers stamped on the back of the can:
7SA 026 60

< Message edited by shall36 -- 9/4/2007 1:10:24 AM >

(in reply to bubbagates)
       Post #: 26

RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:10:48 AM   
bubbagates



Posts: 8162
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Elizabethtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Go ahead and post a pic and I'll see if I can help. Troybuilt models sells the MTW75 can and the MTW header as a matched set for the DA50. You normally do not have to cut anything, just bolt it up and go and if the plane will handle the MTW75K can then you'll gain about 100-200 rpm to boot. The main difference between the 75 and 75K is the "K" is a bit fatter.

BTW, the header can also be too short or the can does not supply the proper flow and cause the same thing

< Message edited by bubbagates -- 9/4/2007 1:12:06 AM >

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:23:15 AM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure it IS the TD75K canister. The guy I bought the plane from bought it from Troy Built and that's the canister they offer. I did go out and take pics, but the problem is that you can only see the very back end of the canister. I'll have to take off the cowl to get a pic of the header pipe.

In looking for other pics of the canister on the internet, I did run across another post in another forum that indicated that a header pipe longer than 2" would result in the on/off problem. Hmmm...

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:30:06 AM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Changed my mind...I believe it is the KS-86 canister. In fact, I'm very confident this is the canister. So, the question is, how do I go about figuring out where to cut the header pipe?

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:35:07 AM   
bubbagates



Posts: 8162
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Elizabethtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		First, measure the header from the center of the exhaust flange to the end of the pipe not including any bends, it should be around 8.25 inches with the KS86 pipe.

< Message edited by bubbagates -- 9/4/2007 1:36:52 AM >

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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:40:21 AM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Will do that tomorrow night. I'll have to pull the cowl and all. Not a big deal.
Thanks!


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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:48:06 AM   
bubbagates



Posts: 8162
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Elizabethtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I do not have the plane so what I am going to suggest may not work but how about being able to just take a tape measure in from the bottom of the cowl up to the exhaust flange and you can probably tell by looking at the Teflon connector where the pipe ends

I would hope there is a hole cut out at the back of the cowl on the bottom to allow heat to escape or come to think of it, it may be slots. I remember reading the manual but do not remember exactly how the bottom is done

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Bill James
Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 12:59:55 PM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		No holes/slots in the rear of the cowl...just a big cutout up front to clear the head. No overheating problems as of yet. Probably not a bad idea to cut out a square in the rear of the cowl?

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 1:43:24 PM   
bubbagates



Posts: 8162
Joined: 5/30/2004
From: Elizabethtown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Yea, you want as much air going out as you can. I looked and the manual after I posted last night and it does look like you would need to remove the cowl in any case.

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Bill James
Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/4/2007 5:02:36 PM   
Hooked-On-RC



Posts: 808
Joined: 6/7/2002
From: Surrey, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		The issues you are having regarding tip stalling sound to me like it could be a CG issue, an issue with your elevator setup or possibly wing weight on one side. Peter Goldsmith wrote an excellent article on CG setup, it may be something you may want to look at. As for your elevator setup go back to the drawing board and plug each elevator half into a seperate channel. Avoid using sub trim if at all possible and make sure you match both elevator halves perfectly, both up, down and centered and be sure they move at the same speed.


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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/5/2007 1:48:25 AM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		OK...The header pipe is 8.5" from center of the port to the end of the header pipe. My guess is that this is the stock length. That length is as the crow flies.

I used a piece of string to measure along the centerline of the pipe and it comes out a bit over 10".

So...from what I've heard from DA, a longer header might solve the problem. But, I may just learn to live with it. Ideally, I would get a nice, linear throttle, but, I don't think that's going to happen. I might play with putting a short piece of pipe between the header and canister and see what happens.

< Message edited by shall36 -- 9/6/2007 2:20:30 AM >

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       Post #: 36

RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/9/2007 6:36:10 PM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Here's an update on the bird and the engine.

After much discussion with lots of people, I think there are three things going on with the engine. First, the engine only has about 3 gallons through it. From what I hear, things don't start to settle down until about 5 gallons. Second, I think the low-end needle is still rich. When I measure head temp after a flight (with engine at high idle), I'm reading about 125* F. No where near what other guys report. Third, the 23x8 prop may be a bit much. I'm going to throw a 22x8 prop and see if that resolves the power band issue.

I upgraded to a 9303 TX. What a big improvement over the 8103! Setup is a breeze. I resolved the uneven throw issue. What I found is that I had to use quite a bit of subtrim to get the left elevator servo arm to be 90* to the servo body. The spines were just too coarse to make a mechanical adjustment. Given that offset in subtrims, I found that if I jacked-up the throw on the computer for the servos to get the throw I wanted, one of the servos would finish before the other servo. The order of finish flips when you go in the other direction. So, I just backed off on the travel adjust and made sure that the servos finished at the same time. The 9303 makes dual elevator servo setup a breeze!

The plane will mildly snap to the right IF you pull back hard on the stick and you are slow (or bleed off too much speed to fast). The plane is laterally balanced; I think the preference of the plane to snap to the right is a function of engine/prop dynamics.

The plane is flying good, not perfect. Coupling on knife-edge is minimal. Rolls are close to axial (I need to play with the differential to correct this problem). Stalls are predictable and clean. Full 3-D throws are a blast and the plane can do some interesting things with full throws and full power! I can just about hover in an inverted spin. Landings are a breeze...if anything, the plane will float on me. I can idle the engine down to about 1500 for approaches.

There might be a better 50cc plane on the market, but it can't be much better than this one!

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RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/10/2007 6:08:27 AM   
pilot727


 

Posts: 680
Joined: 6/16/2006
From: Clearfield, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Shall36
I have four mixes, do you think if i hook up both elevators on them mixes that both will work together when i move the up or down elevator on the radio, i do no that it is not a good idea to use the sub trim and do it the way i am now but i did get everything all set and flying great, next is to balance my wings, i know that the right wing is heavier then the left as it is always the one that first drops when i stall the plane of even hold it too long in the air on landing, going to put my da-50 onto my cap 232 sport tomorrow morning, cant wait to get it running

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       Post #: 38

RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 9/10/2007 5:59:02 PM   
shall36


 

Posts: 105
Joined: 6/1/2002
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I'm not exactly sure about your setup with the four mixes on the elevator function. Based on my understanding of how to set up split elevators, you use the sub-trim to get the servo arm perpendicular to the servo body. You start by centering the servo and then bolting the arm to the servo as straight up and down as possible. What you'll find is that the splines on the servo may not allow you to mount the arm perfectly perpendicular to the servo body. In my case, the right servo only needed a few points of sub-trim to get the arm straight up and down. The left servo needed considerably more sub-trim. Thus, if you increase the servo travel too much, one servo hits the end before the other. Use the mechanical linkage to center the elevator halves to the horizontal stab.

The 9303 has an awesome setup for dual servo elevators. It takes almost all of the work out of the process. When I was using the 8103, I had to setup one mix for the elevator. I used the elevator channel for the right elevator servo and the spoiler channel (CH 6, I think) for the left servo. I used mix 3 (not all mixes on the 8103 will link the trim tab to both servos) so that 100% on the elevator was -%100 on the spoiler. I never did get perfect results using the 8103. I think others have had a similar problem.

I laterally balance the aircraft using the spinner and the tailwheel. Sounds like you have your balance issue under control.

Good luck!

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       Post #: 39

RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 10/21/2007 3:16:46 AM   
RC4LIFE


 

Posts: 52
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: ORTONVILLE, MI, USA
Status: offline 		On larger planes where the engine has right thrust built in how do you laterally balance your plane using the spinner and tailwheel?

(in reply to shall36)
       Post #: 40

RE: 50cc 260 Tipstall Happy? - 10/21/2007 3:51:12 PM