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CCPM - 8/11/2007 3:25:40 AM

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Can anyone give a good drawing of how CCPM works in a model heli (nitro or electric) thanks.

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RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 4:19:27 AM

TheBum

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I think the E-Flite Blade CP product page has a pretty good explanation with photos that applies to any CCPM heli.

(in reply to calvino)

RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 6:50:36 AM

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thanks, I am wondering how it works so any help in the form of pics... helps, thanks

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RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 10:05:48 AM

mrasmm

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try some of these links
http://www.heli-max.net/mediawiki/index.php/Links

I don't remember which one specifically links to it, but these are just a collection of links that I and a few others put together for general heli info.

this one especially should contain some of that info.
http://www.swashplate.co.uk/ehbg-v17/ehbg_index.html

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RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 5:19:58 PM

tippy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calvino

Can anyone give a good drawing of how CCPM works in a model heli (nitro or electric) thanks.

If you're talking about electronic CCPM then it would be rather difficult to get a drawing of the mixes happening inside your TX ... because for most ... the mixes IN the TX IS CCPM.

However ... it doesn't take much imagination to see how the swash is physically manipulated with an eCCPM set up.

EX ... 120° CCPM:

The collective function (assuming your heli raises and lowers the swash to accomplish this) requires ALL three channels to move together to lift /lower the swash evenly (no cyclic input)

The aileron cyclic function would require both pitch and aileron channels to work together to tilt the swash and does not require elevator input at all.

The elevator cyclic function would require ALL three channels: ail and pitch moving together and elevator moving opposite.

With CCPM, you have think of the channel designations (ail, elev, pitch) and the swash functions (ail, elev, pitch) as two different things because with eCCPM ... two to three of the channels are used to accomplish one function (ie ail, elev, pitch channels are needed to accomplish the pitch function ... or ... ail, elev, pitch channels are needed to accomplish the elevator function).

Mechanical CCPM (mCCPM) is a little easier because one channel is needed for each function (ie ail channel to produce ail function, etc). The "mixing" is done mechanically on the heli ... no need to "mixing" functions/channels in the TX.

(in reply to calvino)

RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 10:18:06 PM

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Tippy:
I am fairly new into the world of the Rc Helis, I have flown rc airplanes for more than ten years and there is a world in differences between helis and airplanes.
I currently own a Blade CP Pro which I understand that works with the CCPM system. Now my doubht here is that I own a JR 8103 Radio and want to buy a nitro heli but I want it to work like my Blade, the question is in the mechanical mixes would do the same work for the nitro heli than my currently CP Pro?
Thanks
Alfred

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RE: CCPM - 8/11/2007 10:22:01 PM

mrasmm

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there are mechanical setups and electronic setups that do basically the same thing. Big debate as to what they are called, but some refer to it as mCCPM and eCCPM, anyways the answer to your q is yes, although mechanical setups these days are getting less and less popular with good computer radio setups =)

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RE: CCPM - 8/12/2007 2:30:38 AM

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I am more interested in how the mechanics of it work but the stuff you gave was interesting. With the advent of cheap(er) computer radio's I can see how it is easier to do the CCPM with electronics... alfredbmor, just currious of what you think of the BCPP, hear the tail motor is a pain, except for that, would you recomend it or not. Have CX experence (and know a thing or 2 of on how to control an out of control heli). With nitro heli's you can't do all the mixing electronicaly. With the whole "variable blade pitch" why can't you rev up the motor instead (save on serovs...)

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RE: CCPM - 8/12/2007 4:24:48 AM

TheBum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calvino
With the whole "variable blade pitch" why can't you rev up the motor instead (save on serovs...)

Do you mean just setting the pitch to some value and using throttle to control altitude? There are a couple of good reasons for using collective pitch:

1. Using only throttle to control altitude will translate into relatively slow changes in lift (altitude) because it takes some time for the motor to adjust speed. When using collective pitch with a proper throttle curve, motors are already spun up to a high rate of speed, so changes in the pitch of the blades will translate into almost instantaneous changes in lift.

2. Generally, the faster the rotor turns, the more stable the heli will be due to gyroscopic effects. Using only throttle with fixed pitch necessitates that you spin up to a certain RPM to climb to hover altitude and then reduce RPM to hold the hover, meaning that the heli will become less stable hovering than when ascending. When descending, you would have to reduce RPM even further, making the heli even less stable.

< Message edited by TheBum -- 8/12/2007 4:25:37 AM >

(in reply to calvino)

RE: CCPM - 8/12/2007 7:16:07 PM

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tks. just currious, makes more sense now. I know from my fixed pitch BCX the slower I was, the more tippy... makes lots more sense. Calvino

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RE: CCPM - 8/13/2007 5:04:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: calvino

I am more interested in how the mechanics of it work but the stuff you gave was interesting. With the advent of cheap(er) computer radio's I can see how it is easier to do the CCPM with electronics... alfredbmor, just currious of what you think of the BCPP, hear the tail motor is a pain, except for that, would you recomend it or not. Have CX experence (and know a thing or 2 of on how to control an out of control heli). With nitro heli's you can't do all the mixing electronicaly. With the whole "variable blade pitch" why can't you rev up the motor instead (save on serovs...)

Calvino:
As I mentioned, this is my first heli, but I'd like to answer your question this way: I effectivly fly any heli loaded in my G2 Flight Simulator and the CP Pro is hard to maintain locked in hovers, as you just think, the tail is a pain. Once the battery is partially discharged the heli flies better.
I know there are some upgrades for this particular heli, as a giro, esc and a brushless motor, but I'd really like to buy a better heli one than invest on my little cr pro. I am thinking that the HeliMax Kinetic 50 could be a good choice, but it is a new product and there are not much people here that have had any experience with it. Time will tell. By now I am trying to fly my Blade CP pro better and I'll be ready for the next step as soon as there will be more information about the kinetic.

About the electronic and mechanic CCPM, it is not even clear to me. Maybe I am wrong but I think that it refers to the set up of the main shaft linkage and the way it moves controlled by three mixed channels isn't it?

Thanks.
Alfred.

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RE: CCPM - 8/13/2007 6:56:42 PM

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yeah, the whole CCPM working stuff is hard to find information on. Most all people say the bcp is a toal pain to fly, I don like the nitros (never flown one though). The downside being huge cost to get airborn... so dificult to decide. Tks though.

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RE: CCPM - 8/13/2007 7:08:09 PM

BarracudaHockey

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Alfred......

There's mCCPM and eCCPM

Any setup that moves the swash plate up and down on the main shaft (which is pretty much all modern designs) use some for of cyclic/collective pitch mixing.

However as standard practice when you hear the term CCPM most people are refering to eCCPM (there is much debate about this)

So today we have mechanical mixing and ccpm (in common terms).
Mechanical mix birds like the Raptor have a collective pitch servo, an aileron servo and an elevator servo. Collective pitch inputs only cause the pitch servo to move.

CCPM have 3 servos usually attached 120 degrees apart around the swash plate. A collective pitch input causes all three servos to move in unison to push the swash up or down. An aileron input causes the opposing servos to move opposite tiliting the swashplate left or right on the axis thats maintained by a radius pin and radius block. An elevator input causes the two opposing servos to move down while the elevator servo moves up or the aileron servos to both push up and the elevator servo pulls down.

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RE: CCPM - 8/13/2007 8:53:56 PM

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BarracudaHockey:
Thanks for explaining such a new concept to me. As I said before I will be acquiring in the near future a new heli and wanted to know everything about the CCPM. I also wanted to know if my JR8103DT would work fine with this new technology. In other forum I have been told that it will work fine. There is a Swash Plate type menu and it has these options:
1servo NORM
2servos 180o
3servos 120o
4 servos 90o

I believe that you could use any option according of the Heli Manufacturer. By now it seems that the most popular CCPM is the 120o 3 servos actuated swash plate.
Looks like an easy thing to do but it is hard to me to understand it.
Thanks again.
Alfred
Because of your answer

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RE: CCPM - 8/13/2007 9:48:29 PM

BarracudaHockey

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Yo would use the option appropriate to your helicopter.
1 normal would be a Raptor.

3 servo 120 degree would be a Trex.

I've never seen 2 or 4 servo implemented ever.

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RE: CCPM - 8/14/2007 12:27:10 AM

tippy

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quote:

alfredbmor:: ... I believe that you could use any option according of the Heli Manufacturer. By now it seems that the