Brushless tail motor......

Brushless tail motor......
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Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 4:51:43 PM

crashcrash

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Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 4:54:22 PM

crashcrash

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

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Post #: 2

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 7:11:01 PM

cltmte

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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
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I will be interested to see the response to this as well. I just put the DD on mine and went back to the dual. Seems more stable with the dual than the 12 with the prop I have. Maybe, as you say, a deeper pitch might help but I had two crashes with this setup in two flight. First one threw the tail blade off and down she went - no damage. Fixed it and sent her up again and the tail quit for some reason and down she went again. Took it off immediately and went back to the dual. I already have the speed controller for brushless, just looking for the motor and blade to go with it.

I'll keep watching.

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 7:44:47 PM

crashcrash

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From: St Louis, MI, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cltmte

I will be interested to see the response to this as well. I just put the DD on mine and went back to the dual. Seems more stable with the dual than the 12 with the prop I have. Maybe, as you say, a deeper pitch might help but I had two crashes with this setup in two flight. First one threw the tail blade off and down she went - no damage. Fixed it and sent her up again and the tail quit for some reason and down she went again. Took it off immediately and went back to the dual. I already have the speed controller for brushless, just looking for the motor and blade to go with it.

I'll keep watching.

The reason you're having trouble with the DirectDrive unit is you are using the wrong propeller. I had a direct drive on my CP-Pro....I loved it and never threw a blade. Check this out:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHE2&P=7

This is the prop and adapter I have now...blades stay put. You're using those crappy push-on's...and they dont work. The above prop and adapter with a NC12-RXC/and heat sink is a very effective combination to replace the N30 motor.

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 8:53:57 PM

bzinfinity

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Joined: 10/10/2006
From: Roswell, GA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

Errr.... why did you switch the HBKII away from belt drive?

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Post #: 5

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 9:38:25 PM

crashcrash

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bzinfinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

Errr.... why did you switch the HBKII away from belt drive?

Project heli....the belt drive won't fit in a blackhawk fuselage...gotta be offset on the boom.

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 10:09:35 PM

DriveWRX

Posts: 150
Joined: 11/16/2006
From: Palos Heights, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

I've done a full brushless HB CP2.
I'm using a ESky 3100kv w/10t & CC Phoenix 10 ESCfor the main and a Feigao 1208436 & CC Thunderbird 9 ESC for the tail.
The Feigao motor is rated at 4122kv. It's setup as DD system with a GWS 3020 press on prop.

The tail in this setup seems to have too much power. The heli wants to rotate right a lot. I have to use sub trim and trim to get the nose to hold even with A G90 HH gyro. Mind you, I'm still playing around with this setup, so the Feigao might just seem to have too much power for the ESky 3100 at the moment. I think once I get everything dailed in, I believe it should work great.

Good luck with yours! Keep us posted.
-Vince

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Post #: 7

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/13/2007 11:38:39 PM

crashcrash

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From: St Louis, MI, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DriveWRX

quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

Anyone ever install a brushless/coreless tail motor? I'm running an HBKII with an E-Flite 3-1 for electric tail conversion. Problem is that the NC12-RXC won't handle the torque of the 3900kv brushless main. This is a project bird...not stock to be sure. A deeper pitch prop might help some but I don't think the NC12-RXC will handle the amount of power very long without failing.

I've done a full brushless HB CP2.
I'm using a ESky 3100kv w/10t & CC Phoenix 10 ESCfor the main and a Feigao 1208436 & CC Thunderbird 9 ESC for the tail.
The Feigao motor is rated at 4122kv. It's setup as DD system with a GWS 3020 press on prop.

The tail in this setup seems to have too much power. The heli wants to rotate right a lot. I have to use sub trim and trim to get the nose to hold even with A G90 HH gyro. Mind you, I'm still playing around with this setup, so the Feigao might just seem to have too much power for the ESky 3100 at the moment. I think once I get everything dailed in, I believe it should work great.

Good luck with yours! Keep us posted.
-Vince

OK...awsome. You are the MAN....this is what I'm looking at. Are you using a 3-1 and how do I hook up an esc for the tail motor? I'm running a std rate gyro. PM me the parts and discription to effect the direct brushless drive. I got a feeling the NC12-RXC just aint got enough a$$ to do the job. Here's a pic of what I'm trying to accomplish:

Attachments

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

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Post #: 8

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/14/2007 5:15:11 AM

cltmte

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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
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You are right. Threw one of the press on blades.. Well, I did order the brushless Medusa 12 mm motor. Gonna give it a shot then that's the end of upgrading the pro.

Would still use the prop shown in the Tower Hobbies link above or a different one with the brushless set up?

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/14/2007 5:41:45 AM

crashcrash

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From: St Louis, MI, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cltmte

You are right. Threw one of the press on blades.. Well, I did order the brushless Medusa 12 mm motor. Gonna give it a shot then that's the end of upgrading the pro.

Would still use the prop shown in the Tower Hobbies link above or a different one with the brushless set up?

If you get a brushless with a 1mm shaft, the prop and adaptor from tower will work. The motor he shows above...I've been looking at. A 15a brushless ESC would work...I just don't know how this would be hooked up as a tail motor since I've gotta go through the gyro etc. I'd really like to make this blackhawk fly...and fly decient.

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RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/14/2007 5:48:05 AM

DriveWRX

Posts: 150
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From: Palos Heights, IL, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crashcrash

OK...awsome. You are the MAN....this is what I'm looking at. Are you using a 3-1 and how do I hook up an esc for the tail motor? I'm running a std rate gyro. PM me the parts and discription to effect the direct brushless drive. I got a feeling the NC12-RXC just aint got enough a$$ to do the job. Here's a pic of what I'm trying to accomplish:

I don't know about being the "MAN", I still consider myself a rookie....

Anyway, this is my first heli build. I did lots of research for this project.
I went full separates, no 3n1. As far as I understand, you can't hook up a brushless ESC to a 3n1. There might be a way, but I don't know.

Here's what I did. Maybe it'll help you.

Parts list:

DX7/AR6100
ESky 3100kv BL main motor
Feigao 1208436L 12x30mm Brushless Motor, 4122kv
CC Phoenix 10 ESC for the main
CC Thunderbird 9 ESC for the tail
E-Flite G90 HH gyro

Here's a diagram of the wiring:

Pretty straight forward. Notice though, that only the signal wire from the tail ESC goes to the gyro.
That's for a HH gyro. Not 100% sure that would work for a rate gyro...

The following pictures show the heli and where the components are mounted.

For more info go here:
Separate Electronics (This is what my setup is based on.)

More useful info:
Axe CP Full Brushless
HoneyBee CP2/Blade CP Brushless Tail motor re-visited

Hope that helps! If there's anything else let me know. I'll try my best.

That's a really cool project you've got going. Hope it works out for you! Keep us posted!

-Vince

(in reply to crashcrash)

Post #: 11

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/14/2007 7:13:54 AM

mrasmm

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if you don't want to replace the stock 3 in 1, and you want to use the stock gyro on a brushless tail, there is a kit that will take the PWM off of the tail ESC and convert it into a ESC signal that can drive a brushless motor. It was marketed for the CP heli when it had the 4 in 1. They are anywhere from 25 to 40 bucks depending on where you look. if you have a seperate gyro then the setup is a bit more straight forward.

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Post #: 12

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/17/2007 10:48:22 PM

cltmte

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From: Charlotte, NC, USA
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Vince,

How did you run the brushless wires from the tail motor? Did you increase the gauge of wire over stock or just slide one more of the stock gauge wires down the tail shaft tube? Just got the medusa 12 mm and getting ready to install it and the brushless esc.

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Post #: 13

RE: Brushless tail motor...... - 8/17/2007 10:56:41 PM

crashcrash

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