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Bipe assenbly - 8/13/2007 7:13:47 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I like bipes. There are several reasons but thats not the point I want to discuss.
I don't like the time it takes to assemble them at the field.
In thinking about the problem, I have decided to try to holding the wing struts in place with magnets and shear pins. That would eliminate up to 8 screws you need to put in on assembly. I have tried those little magnets you get from Radio Shack but I don't think they have enough holding strength. I researched the internet and found a number of places that sell larger rare earth magnets. The ones I have ordered have a holding strength of 33 pounds. With that strength I might have trouble getting the parts apart.
Has anyone tried something like this?
       Post #: 1

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/13/2007 9:03:13 PM   
ByLoudDesign



Posts: 371
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: online 		I'm a biper my self and well on my way to completing plans for a 1/4 true scale Curtiss Goshawk BFC-2. I have designed it so the that the wing halves and their strut and flying wires stay together. The only fastening job I'll have is to attach the landing wires at the upper wing and tention it via a tention device through a belly hatch. Wing removal is accomplished by loosening the landing wires and detach them at upper wing, then slide the wings out 2" of their 4" of connecting tubes, put in a transporting strut to replace the center upper wing and fuselage connections. pin this inplace and finish sliding the wing out. I do this by having the connecting tubes parallel to each other in the upper and lower wings as well as front to back.!

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_____________________________

Projects on the board: Stinson SR-9, Orion P-3, Dornier DO-24, Howard 500, Pilatus PC-9 Future Projects: Curtiss F11-C2, Osprey VC-22, Canadair CL-415, Connie CL-121, Stinson Model A Gruman TBM,
bylouddesign.com "Scale without compromise"

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 2

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 1:58:47 PM   
packet


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Port Orange, FL, USA
Status: offline 		While I can appreciate the complexity of field assembly of a bipe, I would not want to make the struts purely cosmetic. Those struts are there for a reason. It is true that a model can be made stronger than the real aircraft, mainly due to reduced wing loading, but why chance it? I always build my models as if they were full scale. That way I can rest easy knowing I have done everything in my power to make the model safe and reliable.

_____________________________

An aircraft is a series of compromises flying in formation.

(in reply to ByLoudDesign)
       Post #: 3

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 2:25:06 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 5661
Joined: 11/20/2005
From: leesburg, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

I like bipes. There are several reasons but thats not the point I want to discuss.
I don't like the time it takes to assemble them at the field.
In thinking about the problem, I have decided to try to holding the wing struts in place with magnets and shear pins. That would eliminate up to 8 screws you need to put in on assembly. I have tried those little magnets you get from Radio Shack but I don't think they have enough holding strength. I researched the internet and found a number of places that sell larger rare earth magnets. The ones I have ordered have a holding strength of 33 pounds. With that strength I might have trouble getting the parts apart.
Has anyone tried something like this?


DB,

How much will your bipe weigh? What is your flying style? Will you be doing any aerobatics? Do you ever do a hard pull-up? I don't think that 33 lbs of holding power will do the job for you. There are many other ways of setting a bipe up so that set up time is minimalized. However, if you hate setting one up that much, why not fly one that does not use the flying wires?

Bill, WACO Brotherhood #1

_____________________________

It's easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesn't look like an airplane.

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 4

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 3:32:47 PM   
ByLoudDesign



Posts: 371
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: online 		My struts are VERY functional, K & S Alum. foils with a #5 (1/8" rod, threaded on both ends for incedient setup. Same with the cabane. they will be potted inside with resin & micro balloons. The 1/4 scale Goshawk will weigh in at +/- 45# if my comparitive study is any where near right.

_____________________________

Projects on the board: Stinson SR-9, Orion P-3, Dornier DO-24, Howard 500, Pilatus PC-9 Future Projects: Curtiss F11-C2, Osprey VC-22, Canadair CL-415, Connie CL-121, Stinson Model A Gruman TBM,
bylouddesign.com "Scale without compromise"

(in reply to packet)
       Post #: 5

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 4:18:29 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


quote:

ORIGINAL: dirtybird

I like bipes. There are several reasons but thats not the point I want to discuss.
I don't like the time it takes to assemble them at the field.
In thinking about the problem, I have decided to try to holding the wing struts in place with magnets and shear pins. That would eliminate up to 8 screws you need to put in on assembly. I have tried those little magnets you get from Radio Shack but I don't think they have enough holding strength. I researched the internet and found a number of places that sell larger rare earth magnets. The ones I have ordered have a holding strength of 33 pounds. With that strength I might have trouble getting the parts apart.
Has anyone tried something like this?


DB,

How much will your bipe weigh? What is your flying style? Will you be doing any aerobatics? Do you ever do a hard pull-up? I don't think that 33 lbs of holding power will do the job for you. There are many other ways of setting a bipe up so that set up time is minimalized. However, if you hate setting one up that much, why not fly one that does not use the flying wires?

Bill, WACO Brotherhood #1

I have five bipes. A 62" lazy Ace 10#, a 72" Weeks special 15#, a 77" Weeks Special 23#, a 84" Fly Baby bipe 20# and a 90" WACO that I have not finished. Only the Fly Baby and the WACO have flying wires. The Fly Baby takes at least 45 minutes to set up. As a result I have not flown it in two years..
The 72" weeks has tabs built into the wings that the strut bolts to with the bolt horizontal to the wing. I have replaced the bolt with a pin. The magnet merely holds the strut on the pin. That what I meant by shear pins.
You can buy a magnet with 315 lbs of holding power. Its 3"D and1&1/2" thick. I think it would hold any airplane together but you would have a bit of trouble taking it apart. These magnets come with a safety warning: paramount is "Don't get your fingers between them".
A 1"Dx1/8 has a holding power of about 50 lbs. I am thinking of using it to hold the wing on at the rear with dowels at front.

(in reply to Stickbuilder)
       Post #: 6

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 7:02:22 PM   
Edwin


 

Posts: 3430
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Leander, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Go for it. Better your plane than mine. Let us know how it works.
Edwin

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 7

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 8:33:25 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		My question was "Has anyone tried this before?"

(in reply to Edwin)
       Post #: 8

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 9:06:58 PM   
ByLoudDesign



Posts: 371
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: online 		Seems like to me we are talking pound of metal and magnets, against a pound of attachment hardware and screws.

_____________________________

Projects on the board: Stinson SR-9, Orion P-3, Dornier DO-24, Howard 500, Pilatus PC-9 Future Projects: Curtiss F11-C2, Osprey VC-22, Canadair CL-415, Connie CL-121, Stinson Model A Gruman TBM,
bylouddesign.com "Scale without compromise"

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 9

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 9:43:10 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ByLoudDesign

Seems like to me we are talking pound of metal and magnets, against a pound of attachment hardware and screws.


Here are some pictures of how I am doing it. Note that I have hedged my bet with a hich pin on the top of the strut. I have ordered the more powerful magnets but I don't have them yet. I don't think the RS magnets will do it. The pictures show there are washers there to attract the magnets

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(in reply to ByLoudDesign)
       Post #: 10

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/14/2007 9:44:58 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Oops one wrong picture

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 11

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/19/2007 6:37:38 PM   
dirtybird


 

Posts: 3096
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Mesa, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		In case anyone is interested I have obtained some very strong magnets and have no doubts they will hold a wing on in cooperation with dowels at the leading edge of the wing. The magnets each have a holding power of 28 lbs. I plan to use two with sheer pins in the trailing edge. Thats 56 lbs holding power! Since the trailing edge supports about 1/3 of the force on the wing, it would take a pull of about 200lbs to pull the wing off assuming the dowels break. I think its overkill. My concern now is what will the magnets do to the receiver. I will have to keep them at least 12"" from the receiver.

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 12

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/19/2007 8:25:28 PM   
gboulton



Posts: 1862
Joined: 5/28/2005
From: La Vergne, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Seems to me an even better answer is to just buy a trailer big enough to carry 'em wings on.

===============

Seriously, I'm a bipe nut myself, and share your field assembly misery....especially on days like this when the temp is 100+. Gah.

That's a slick looking idea...I'm very curious to hear how it works out for you...in other words, yes...I'm asking you to risk YOUR bipes as the guinea pigs and let me know how it goes. *heh*

_____________________________

The free man will ask neither what his country can do for him nor what he can do for his country. - Milton Friedman

(in reply to dirtybird)
       Post #: 13

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/20/2007 3:32:20 AM   
mobyal


 

Posts: 824
Joined: 1/2/2006
From: Lexington, VA, USA
Status: online 		Yeah. Field setup is why this hanging in my office and will continue to do so. 77" w/span, 15lbs, 4 wing panels and more than 50 bolts, nuts, clevises and screws to get the wings on and off....
Once I got it all together, all flying and landing wires adjusted, I llet it sit for a few days and then hung it up!
I enjoy looking at it, tho. LOL

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_____________________________

MobyAl

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       Post #: 14

RE: Bipe assenbly - 8/20/2007 3:53:19 AM   
ByLoudDesign